162 replies to this topic

[IceCase88]

A modified random hit mechanic like they have for SSRMs would eliminate PP FLD. It would still require the same skill to hit the enemy mech it would just eliminate all the damage hitting one area. Problem solved.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 24 July 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Especially so for the blackjack, 2 hits on the CT and it's dead. It's relative easy to aim and without ECM. Got a few easy kills because of those BJs.

I find smaller lights harder to hit because of the smaller size.

The Cicada 3M is tricky because of ECM, however, the rest without ECMs are also easy picking. 2 hits on the CT also kills it.

Lighter mediums make your KDR looks good.

[Biaxialrain]

Lights that go 2-3x faster than my assault and more or less fly should die in 1 or 2 hits.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

Biaxialrain, on 24 July 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Lights that go 2-3x faster than my assault and more or less fly should die in 1 or 2 hits.

That's with good aim. The lighter mediums have larger silhouettes and lousy armor, I just find them easier to kill than lights. I do agree that lights die with 2 hits as well.

[Bulletsponge0]

Simple...don't attack a Dire Wolf from the front, then it doesn't matter how big it's alpha is.

He'll, I run an Adder and can kill a Dire Wolf easily from behind, not sure if I've ever even been killed by a Dire Wolf while running my Adder

[Xavier]

IceCase88, on 24 July 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

A modified random hit mechanic like they have for SSRMs would eliminate PP FLD. It would still require the same skill to hit the enemy mech it would just eliminate all the damage hitting one area. Problem solved.

and the first time that I hit someones leg and then get an instant kill shot to the head because of the random hit mechanic how many "hacusations" will I receive after that?????

Do people really think before they post some of these things?

Ghost heat won't do much to stop the 50 point alphas because CGuass don't generate much heat anyways. Personally I don't think the Direwolf being so strong is that big of a deal its so slow it has to have some ability to defend itself because more often than not if you swarm a direwolf it goes down faster than most mediums. Better firepower for horrible maneuverability is a valid trade off and I don't have an issue with a 50 point alpha(which itself is debatable I have taken many and alpha from a direwolf at range and had the guass hit one torso and the trailing PPC fire miss me completely so I challenge the 50 point alpha is only valid on a stationary target -> meaning don't stand still or you deserve whats coming to you <- mobility is life and direwolves keep you moving)

[Jonny Taco]

Biaxialrain, on 24 July 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Lights that go 2-3x faster than my assault and more or less fly should die in 1 or 2 hits.

You forgot lag shield. While not as bad as early beta, it's still most certainly present. Lag shooting (those whole played mw3 online know what I'm talking about) is often required with lasers and other hit scan weapons to land damage on a high speed light running from right to left or left to right. Simply seeing your lasers splash and your reticle go red does not mean that you are actually hitting the target.

Edited by lartfor, 24 July 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Andross Deverow, on 24 July 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Agreed, This is one of the main reasons that the Light Que is around 6-10% and the Medium que is around 9-14% consistently. Very few players want to pilot any mech that gets destroyed in a couple shots. I foresee longer waits to get a game and fewer and fewer lights/mediums in game as we move forward. Maybe if there were some objective based modes or whatnot that could highlight the medium/light weight classes there would be a ray of hope. But.... that is a pipe dream as well. As long as we have strictly death match type gameply on very few and tiny little maps the meta will continue to limit the lighter weight classes participating in the game.

Regards

No its not the reason the light Que is only 10%. Light que is 10% because they require a support minded play style, kind of like a healer in a fantasy MMO. This personality isn't that common in MMO players, hence you have a smaller population.

Also I play the Firestarter and Jenner farily often and it is a very rare occurrence getting pummeled like this probably because I never stop moving or ever run in a straight line when I am even remotely close to the enemy. In fact the only time I even see this in a battle is when light mechs are just standing there like a big juicy target.

Also have you never actually spectated or even observed a Direwolf (or Altas, Stalker, etc) try to actually hit a moving light mech with PPCs and Guass? It is comical to say the least. They will end up wasting enough firepower to totally destroy 2-3 Assault mechs, MISSING that pesky little light that is thumbing their nose at them. Hell I have seen 2,3,4,5 or more mechs twisting around like a dog chasing their tail, trying to connect on a light mech and watch the light run off laughing at them all.

No sorry, a Dual PPC/Dual Guass build, is not a serious threat to a light mech that is doing anything but running in a straight line or just standing there. Any time these shots connect with a light actually running and moving evasively, it is just a matter of dumb luck or because the light pilot screwed up and got caught/slowed on a piece or terrain or something.

[Xyroc]

Khobai, on 24 July 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

The direwolf could still outgun any other mech even if it couldnt do 50 pinpoint damage.

Cgauss and cerppcs should be linked for ghost heat. That still wouldnt prevent it from doing 50 pinpoint damage, but at least it would have to pay for it with extra heat.

wait you are wanting to add more ghost heat bandaids?


Dont think it needs to be nerfed at all. I do get nailed by the metawolf from time to time but normally when I do I look over and seem him sitting there and I think to myself " I should have seen him and been able to stay out of his line of fire "

Edited by Beliall, 24 July 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Viktor Drake, on 24 July 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

No its not the reason the light Que is only 10%. Light que is 10% because they require a support minded play style, kind of like a healer in a fantasy MMO. This personality isn't that common in MMO players, hence you have a smaller population.

Also I play the Firestarter and Jenner farily often and it is a very rare occurrence getting pummeled like this probably because I never stop moving or ever run in a straight line when I am even remotely close to the enemy. In fact the only time I even see this in a battle is when light mechs are just standing there like a big juicy target.

Also have you never actually spectated or even observed a Direwolf (or Altas, Stalker, etc) try to actually hit a moving light mech with PPCs and Guass? It is comical to say the least. They will end up wasting enough firepower to totally destroy 2-3 Assault mechs, MISSING that pesky little light that is thumbing their nose at them. Hell I have seen 2,3,4,5 or more mechs twisting around like a dog chasing their tail, trying to connect on a light mech and watch the light run off laughing at them all.

No sorry, a Dual PPC/Dual Guass build, is not a serious threat to a light mech that is doing anything but running in a straight line or just standing there. Any time these shots connect with a light actually running and moving evasively, it is just a matter of dumb luck or because the light pilot screwed up and got caught/slowed on a piece or terrain or something.

I respectfully disagree,
Alot of players have quit using lights/mediums not because they did not enjoy support roles but because they get blasted out of the game in a single volly from something. The light Corps. especially are dwindling badly. Many many players I know have mothballed their lighter mechs in favor of heavier models simply for the durability.

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 24 July 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[Ngamok]

Kiiyor, on 23 July 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

+INFINITY for Calvin and Hobbes

[Gas Guzzler]

IceCase88, on 24 July 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

A modified random hit mechanic like they have for SSRMs would eliminate PP FLD. It would still require the same skill to hit the enemy mech it would just eliminate all the damage hitting one area. Problem solved.

Uhh no? I want shots to go where I point them, this isn't some RPG. Hell, you might as well just target someone and press attack.

Yeah, if you run around in front of a Dire Wolf you are risking a lot. But if you are in a light and you get behind one of those DWs you won't have too difficult a time coring it through the back
The only time I really one shot folks is when they either stop moving or move slowly right in front of me. Another thing you can do is twist away to force the alpha into your arm. You will lose the arm but still be walking.

[9thDeathscream]

The Direwolf with this setup isn't a problem just don't engage from the front. The problem is the Timberwolfs with JJ and moving at 80km + with this loadout that is the real threat. They have the pinpoint alpha + Mobility. They are much harder to deal with. Its like the old PPC Ac5 combo in a Dragon Slayer. Yep pinpoint alpha based enemy, keep moving, flank or disengage.

[Khobai]

Quote

So you want AC20s removed as well? Neither stands up tp one very well.

I think AC20s should be burst fire. PPCs should also work like CERPPCs and have a splash component. Any weapons that allow you to equip combinations that do over 25-30 pinpoint damage need to be addressed. Currently that includes AC20s, PPCs, and Gauss.

Quote

wait you are wanting to add more ghost heat bandaids?

Unfortunately ghost heat isnt going anywhere. In order to get rid of ghost heat weapons would need to be completely rebalanced. And the heat system would probably need a revamp as well. PGI cant even balance the weapons with ghost heat, so how can they possibly hope to balance them without it? I just dont see it ever going away.

Edited by Khobai, 24 July 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[Lightfoot]

See, those are perfectly normal builds in Battletech and previous MechWarrior games. Players are encouraged to create those configs by the nature of Mechlab and it's only in PGI's MWO that they are a problem.

The earlier MechWarrior games just expected it to happen and made the mechs tough enough to shrug off that kind of damage for a few hits. MWO tries to escape high direct fire FLD weapon damage, but it's not possible and they should just adjust the Mechs to it instead of trying to nerf the weapons. Nerfing the weapons results in horrendous deviations from Battletech and bit by bit is turning MWO into an arcade game.

Some weapons in MechWarrior just do high pin-point damage and are supposed too, and some do spread damage for a damage bonus usually, challenging the player to use the weapon well enough to get the bonus damage. When all the accurate (pin-point) weapons are turned into spread damage, or so nerfed as to be unusable, MWO will be an arcade game for young children.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 July 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

- Unfortunately ghost heat is kindve an unnecessary evil abomination -

Fixed.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Andross Deverow, on 24 July 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

I respectfully disagree,
Alot of players have quit using lights/mediums not because they did not enjoy support roles but because they get blasted out of the game in a single volly from something. The light Corps. especially are dwindling badly. Many many players I know have mothballed their lighter mechs in favor of heavier models simply for the durability.

Regards

Yep, that would be those light pilots that run in straight lines and/or stand still like a juicy target.

Honestly piloting a light mech is not for those who aren't dedicated to learning the special piloting skills necessary to being successful in a light. A well piloted light has massive influence on the outcome of a match. However, most either don't understand the tactics involved or don't want to devote the time and practice necessary to be successful with them. This goes back to what I was saying about lights requiring a special mindset that only really attracts a very few players.

Basically the people who are shelving them are doing so because it is not the mech class for them. Not because lights can't be successful in the game, despite any crazy builds that might exist. Really it is simple as that whether anyone want to admit it or not.

Note: Human psychology dictates that if someone doesn't like something, they will typically find an excuse for not liking it and usually that excuse will be some external factor out of their control that has nothing to do with them.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 24 July 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I think AC20s should be burst fire. PPCs should also work like CERPPCs and have a splash component. Any weapons that allow you to equip combinations that do over 25-30 pinpoint damage need to be addressed. Currently that includes AC20s, PPCs, and Gauss.

Nope nope nope nope

FYI, Large Lasers already do more damage per ton with less heat then PPCs, with perfect aim. So you sacrifice tonnage to get all the damage in one spot with the trade off that you have to fire a projectile weapon. Have you not faced groups that are wrecking people with ER LLs lately?

25-30 damage is nothing. I've plugged light mechs with that and they just keep on chugging. Its funny on a moving target projectiles moving at different speeds hit at different points. The only true pinpoint 30 dmg is dual gauss, should we have burst fire gauss rifles as well? And your splash damage PPCs and burst fire autocannons will do nothing but make that the preferred loadout, oh and simultaneously take away the IS mech's only saving grace...

I can't believe how some people haven't noticed that brawling with SRMs and lasers right now has been extremely effective, more so then it has been since I started playing the game. All it takes is a bit of teamwork to close the distance...

Pinpoint alpha sniping is still dominant in the solo queue, because it allows you to be exposed for the least amount a time, and that is a biproduct of PUGging and bad teamwork, as sniping doesn't rely on other teammates backing you up. So, you can snipe away until a team actually does something. Even in the group queue if you are in a team of small groups, if you and your buddies want to brawl rush you may be unlucky enough to get some groups derping around with LRMs that just sit behind cover waiting for locks.

[RetroActive]

John1352, on 24 July 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

Personally I think being able to kill a max armor VICTOR in 1.5 seconds through the front CT, without overheating, is a bigger problem.

Please point me in the direction of a viable Daishi build and video of said build killing a full armored Victor in 1.5 seconds.

Hint: You won't be able to.

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 24 July 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

I do 1400 damage in my direwolf without using either gauss or ppcs. Theyre not required for the direwolf to be a monster. But in order to make lights and mediums more popular we need to get the pinpoint damage under control. Lights and mediums should not be getting killed in 2-3 hits.

What universe are you from? In TT they died to 1 hit ROUTINELY from AC20...the shell from the AC20 should literally crush a mech under ~40T.

Picture this...

A Jenner is an APC going 150 kph. Got that image yet? Good!

A 210mm (16") shell from a WWII era battleship lands right in the middle of it! Got that image? Good.

Atlas carries a battleship gun and...

Jenner = APC

Light < AC20

That reality has not been in this game. The fact that you have to carry, essentially 38T of weapons and ammo (counting 1T ammo per Gauss rifle only) to kill a light/medium mech as effectively as an AC20 in TT is absurd.