296 replies to this topic

[ApolloKaras]

https://www.youtube....Jf5vKI.........

Edited by Saxie, 27 July 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[Livewyr]

IraqiWalker, on 27 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

I would love for them to implement Stealth Armor.

Me too, when the time comes. (Hell if they wanted to add it earlier as a prototype, I would be happy with that.)

IraqiWalker, on 27 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

They changed Guardian into Angel.

The only thing Angel does is prevent the streaks from gaining their accuracy bonus. (Locking) Neither Guardian nor Angel provide stealth, let alone umbrella stealth.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Have you figured out the point of the illustration?

Edited by Livewyr, 27 July 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[Livewyr]

sneeking, on 27 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

livewr would you rather see another game mechanic eff3d up beyond all usefulness then given to every player that wants one ?

I am guessing you are creating a straw man here, but I am not sure what you are driving at.

Please to clarify.

[IraqiWalker]

Livewyr, on 27 July 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Have you figured out the point of the illustration?

Yes, countering ECM with BAP or TAG requires exposing yourself. Which I have no problem with. If you want to counter it without exposing yourself, that would be absolutely broken.

At least an ECM mech is already in the open when you have visual of it.

[Livewyr]

IraqiWalker, on 27 July 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Yes, countering ECM with BAP or TAG requires exposing yourself. Which I have no problem with. If you want to counter it without exposing yourself, that would be absolutely broken.

At least an ECM mech is already in the open when you have visual of it.

I give up. I give up! omg. Either you are dense, or a master troll.

In all four scenes.. the Cicada had NO BLOODY IDEA that catapult was even there, let alone trying to counter him. His ECM was working its magic regardless of his awareness. It required ZERO effort on his part to gain a stealth shield that took that catapult all that (comically fruitless) effort to try and disable. Meanwhile, the Catapult finally was able to pierce the Jesus Box by exposing himself to train the tag.. only get get nailed by the Cicada's team mates.

All of these counters require you to be on top of it, bringing your own ECM, or even closer carrying a BAP- OR they require to you focus your efforts on the ECM mech JUST to remove something he might as well have forgotten about.

That is what is called: "Click & Forget Skill" (Which smacks ominously like the accusations against LRM boats.)

I sincerely hope I just bit at a master troll.. the alternative scares me.

[IraqiWalker]

Livewyr, on 27 July 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

I give up. I give up! omg. Either you are dense, or a master troll.

In all four scenes.. the Cicada had NO BLOODY IDEA that catapult was even there, let alone trying to counter him. His ECM was working its magic regardless of his awareness. It required ZERO effort on his part to gain a stealth shield that took that catapult all that (comically fruitless) effort to try and disable. Meanwhile, the Catapult finally was able to pierce the Jesus Box by exposing himself to train the tag.. only get get nailed by the Cicada's team mates.

All of these counters require you to be on top of it, bringing your own ECM, or even closer carrying a BAP- OR they require to you focus your efforts on the ECM mech JUST to remove something he might as well have forgotten about.

That is what is called: "Click & Forget Skill" (Which smacks ominously like the accusations against LRM boats.)

I sincerely hope I just bit at a master troll.. the alternative scares me.

Looks like I was dense.
I focused completely on the Catapult, and what he was attempting, and registered the Cicada as dodging.

[Livewyr]

IraqiWalker, on 27 July 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Looks like I was dense.
I focused completely on the Catapult, and what he was attempting, and registered the Cicada as dodging.

Have you ever watched Wiley Coyote? He has a similar relationship with the roadrunner. (Although the roadrunner is sometimes aware of him.)

[Livewyr]

sneeking, on 27 July 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

it aint click and forget, unless match maker unbalance has seen fit not to put at least one ecm on the other team then I am in there right up front switching ecm mode to joust that mofo for cecm at same time as blocking lrm from the spammers while doing so I will try to surface long enough to tag laser and fling an lrm5 burn some mL and stream some srm4 out of my 3L's nark port.

you will fail to convince me ecm is broken and unskilled

the fault is with match maker if ecm isn't fairly distributed to each team, if each team has at least one then the fault is with the pilot.

im sorry for my opinion but you won't change it with any argument.

That has become clear.

It is difficult to convince rocks of anything.

[IraqiWalker]

sneeking, on 27 July 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

it aint click and forget, unless match maker unbalance has seen fit not to put at least one ecm on the other team then I am in there right up front switching ecm mode to joust that mofo for cecm at same time as blocking lrm from the spammers while doing so I will try to surface long enough to tag laser and fling an lrm5 burn some mL and stream some srm4 out of my 3L's nark port.

you will fail to convince me ecm is broken and unskilled

the fault is with match maker if ecm isn't fairly distributed to each team, if each team has at least one then the fault is with the pilot.

im sorry for my opinion but you won't change it with any argument.

Dropped in a match where I was the only ECM on my team. Enemy team had at least 2 ECM mechs. However, I was in a lance on comms, so that evened out fine, since we just picked the ECM mechs off in seconds.

[Zolaz]

ECM is a troll mechanic worthy of QQ PUG tears. If you are solo dropping and want the easy mode you run an ECM mech. All those lights that no one wants to play, ECM easy mode. All of those mediums, ECM or LRM easy mode. Most people who play this game are VERY dependent on the Red and Blue Doritos above people's head. Take away their easily scanned and easily called out targets. The Kitfox is very good for this role of ECM and LRM control. When it comes out in c-bills, buy one. Well, buy three and keep one.

If you are in the solo queue normally people are going after Assaults and Heavies first. Do you aim at the Spider/Cicada or the Direwolf/Warhawk/Victor first? If you are running a Light or Medium you should be letting the big guys tank for you. ECM creates disruption as the enemy cant cycle through targets to get a clear idea of who they are fighting. Heaven forbid that start chasing the squirrel while the Direwolf is on them, they are getting smoked.

If you are on the team with ECM and LRM superiority you are going to win the match. Is this true against top tier teams in 12 man, no. Because teamwork will overcome a lot of disadvantages. However, what we are talking about is stacking enough of the deck in your favor so that your team wins. Normally all it takes is ECM superiority, this is especially true in solo queue.

[Cybersniper Vickers]

The OP hasn't been seen since this thread got started, right ?
And as a result of the original statement, there's been a lot stirred up, yes ?
We've had the LRM debate, the ECM debate, the Pugs verses other games debate....
I am starting to suspect somebody is sitting back with the popcorn and being entertained.

Whoops, there he is.....heh.

Edited by Cybersniper Vickers, 27 July 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Hillslam]

ECM is fine.

l2p

[Cybersniper Vickers]

Zolaz, on 27 July 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

ECM is a troll mechanic worthy of QQ PUG tears. If you are solo dropping and want the easy mode you run an ECM mech. All those lights that no one wants to play, ECM easy mode. All of those mediums, ECM or LRM easy mode. Most people who play this game are VERY dependent on the Red and Blue Doritos above people's head. Take away their easily scanned and easily called out targets. The Kitfox is very good for this role of ECM and LRM control. When it comes out in c-bills, buy one. Well, buy three and keep one.

If you are in the solo queue normally people are going after Assaults and Heavies first. Do you aim at the Spider/Cicada or the Direwolf/Warhawk/Victor first? If you are running a Light or Medium you should be letting the big guys tank for you. ECM creates disruption as the enemy cant cycle through targets to get a clear idea of who they are fighting. Heaven forbid that start chasing the squirrel while the Direwolf is on them, they are getting smoked.

If you are on the team with ECM and LRM superiority you are going to win the match. Is this true against top tier teams in 12 man, no. Because teamwork will overcome a lot of disadvantages. However, what we are talking about is stacking enough of the deck in your favor so that your team wins. Normally all it takes is ECM superiority, this is especially true in solo queue.

Sigh.....

[STEF_]

I wonder why there are mechwarriors that don't accept the game as it is... since always

Now that I have my years accumulated (aka I'm old) thread like this one (or about lrm boats, or something else) makes me smile....
I think that whining players will always exist unless people will accept rules and game as it is.

Do you ever play battletech with master rules, double blind drops, and having ecm mechs in lances?
I did it .... a few years ago.

Now I enjoy this game using both ecm, or lmr boats, or anything else, because I love this game as it is. And I would never call "noob" or "other epithets" a player enjoing the game as he/she likes.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 27 July 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Zyllos]

There are several things I would change with LRMs before making ECM not block targeting:

• Nerfs:
  
  • LRMs need to be a bit less efficient with ammo (meaning it needs to spread more). (~25% reduction)
    
  • LRMs need longer cooldowns. (~100% increase)
    
  • Remove the sharing of targets (C3) to all mechs.
• Buffs:
  
  • Increase LRM speed to SRM speed to 300m/s. (87.5% increase)
    
  • LRMs fired without a lock can travel to the target without maintaining a lock.

This would make targets that can get locked on to not be blasting into oblivion but still be dangerous enough in forcing the target that may get NARC, TAG, or locked on by many targets. In doing this, I think then we can make GECM not block all targeting around the mech.

Edited by Zyllos, 27 July 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Zyllos, on 27 July 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

There are several things I would change with LRMs before making ECM not block targeting:

• Nerfs:
  
  • LRMs need to be a bit less efficient with ammo (meaning it needs to spread more). (~25% reduction)
    
  • LRMs need longer cooldowns. (~100% increase)
    
  • Remove the sharing of targets (C3) to all mechs.
• Buffs:
  
  • Increase LRM speed to SRM speed to 300m/s. (87.5% increase)
    
  • LRMs fired without a lock can travel to the target without maintaining a lock.

This would make targets that can get locked on to not be blasting into oblivion but still be dangerous enough in forcing the target that may get NARC, TAG, or locked on by many targets. In doing this, I think then we can make GECM not block all targeting around the mech.

Don't forget to increase the damage with that cooldown increase. Double for Double.

[Screech]

Point on the doll where the ECM monster touched you.

[Zyllos]

Mcgral18, on 27 July 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Don't forget to increase the damage with that cooldown increase. Double for Double.

But, if you increase damage, then the efficiency just goes back up.

If you want to deal amazing damage with LRMs, in my eyes, then take an Artemis IV to where you have to expose your own self (due to LOS) to the target but your LRMs will be extremely efficient and painful.

[Bulletsponge0]

Zolaz, on 27 July 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

ECM is a troll mechanic worthy of QQ PUG tears. If you are solo dropping and want the easy mode you run an ECM mech. All those lights that no one wants to play, ECM easy mode. All of those mediums, ECM or LRM easy mode. Most people who play this game are VERY dependent on the Red and Blue Doritos above people's head. Take away their easily scanned and easily called out targets. The Kitfox is very good for this role of ECM and LRM control. When it comes out in c-bills, buy one. Well, buy three and keep one.

If you are in the solo queue normally people are going after Assaults and Heavies first. Do you aim at the Spider/Cicada or the Direwolf/Warhawk/Victor first? If you are running a Light or Medium you should be letting the big guys tank for you. ECM creates disruption as the enemy cant cycle through targets to get a clear idea of who they are fighting. Heaven forbid that start chasing the squirrel while the Direwolf is on them, they are getting smoked.

If you are on the team with ECM and LRM superiority you are going to win the match. Is this true against top tier teams in 12 man, no. Because teamwork will overcome a lot of disadvantages. However, what we are talking about is stacking enough of the deck in your favor so that your team wins. Normally all it takes is ECM superiority, this is especially true in solo queue.

not true

[Mcgral18]

Zyllos, on 27 July 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

But, if you increase damage, then the efficiency just goes back up.

If you want to deal amazing damage with LRMs, in my eyes, then take an Artemis IV to where you have to expose your own self (due to LOS) to the target but your LRMs will be extremely efficient and painful.

They deal horrible damage as it stands...so I'm not sure what you're on about.

The increased cooldown is supposed to decrease the spam, but keep them effective weapons, which they certainly are not currently.


But, if you want to gimp the worst weapon system in the game (flamer isn't a weapon) be my guest. Doesn't really affect me, but I'd rather not have more paperweights in the game.