588 replies to this topic

[MasterBLB]

Sandslice, on 01 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

If (as MasterBNB suggested on p16) we add 3 'Mech modules to every 'Mech (so that the baseline is 4+1 rather than 1+1,) then all we do is cater to the so-called "mandatories" (causing ~60k GXP to become pure progression) and then put the choice on top of that... and what thereafter? As more are added, something else will become the fifth "mandatory," and then you'll want it buffed to 5+1 because 4+1 offers only a false illusion of choice.

Well,for those modules we have currently 2 are always the same,obvious ones,but event 3rd one gives some freedom of choice.
So,nope,there will be no ultimate set of 4-5 modules suitable for every build.

Edited by MasterBLB, 01 August 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Prezimonto]

GlycerineOxide, on 01 August 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

I have a proposal which I hope solves the issues of:-

1 - Strike Spam
2 - Poor Weapon Modules
3 - Redundant skill in the pilot tree.

Here's how it works.

Change Overall Pilot Tree as Follows

1 - Basic
2 - Change Elite to Veteran
3 - Change Master to Elite
4 - Master

Basic Efficiencies
No Changes (These Efficiencies are fine)

Veteran Efficiencies

Leave - Speed Tweak, Quick Ignition

Change Fast Fire to Component Engineering - change RoF buff from 5% down to 2.5%, Unlocks Access to Tier 1+2 Weapon Modules and Mech Modules (More on this Later in Modules)

REMOVE PinPoint (this skill is redundant, MWO convergence is instant and has been since closed Beta) Refund GXP to players

Elite Efficiencies

ADD Component Engineering 3 - Unlocks Tier 3 Weapon Modules
ADD Component Engineering 4 - Unlocks Tier 4 Weapon Modules
ADD Component Engineering 5 - Unlocks Tier 5 Weapon Modules

Master Efficiency

ADD BattleMech Engineering - Adds +1 OMNI Module Slot

MODULES
All Mechs 2M+2W+2C+OMNI from Effciency

Current Weapon Modules

Change current RANGE modules (Except AMS) to:-
Energy&Ballistic
Tier 1 - +2.5% RoF +heat
Tier 2 - +4% RoF+heat

ADD TIER 3-5 (Requires Elite Efficiencies)
Tier 3 - +5% RoF+heat+5% Chance to Fail@70% Mech Heat
Tier 4 - +7% RoF+heat+10% Chance to Fail@60% Mech Heat
Tier 5 - +8% RoF+heat+15% Chance to Fail@50% Mech Heat
Missile
Tier 1 - +2.5% RoF +heat+5% Chance to Jam
Tier 2 - +4.0% RoF+heat+10% Chance to Jam

ADD TIER 3-5 (Requires Elite Efficiencies)
Tier 3 - +5.0% RoF+heat+15% Chance to Jam
Tier 4 - +7.0% RoF+heat+20% Chance to Jam
Tier 5 - +8.0% RoF+heat+25% Chance to Jam
ALL TIERS NEED TO BE UNLOCKED FOR GXP AND CBILL PURCHASED AS USUAL

New Weapon Modules
Add new damage Modules. (Using the higher Tiers of these modules is risky for their benefits, your weapons can destroy themselves if you push the Mech too hard)

Energy&Ballistic
Tier 1 - +1.5% range+heat
Tier 2 - +2.5% range+heat

ADD TIER 3-5 (Requires Elite Efficiencies)
Tier 3 - +5% range+heat +2.5% Chance to Critically Fail@85% Mech Heat
Tier 4 - +7% range+heat +5% Chance to Critically Fail@75% Mech Heat
Tier 5 - +8% range+heat +10% Chance to Critically Fail@65% Mech Heat
Missile
Tier 1 - +1.5% range+heat+5% Chance to Jam
Tier 2 - +2.5% range+heat+10% Chance to Jam
ADD TIER 3-5 (Requires Elite Efficiencies)
Tier 3 - +5% range+heat +2.5% Chance to Critically Fail@85% Mech Heat
Tier 4 - +7% range+heat +5% Chance to Critically Fail@75% Mech Heat
Tier 5 - +8% range+heat +10% Chance to Critically Fail@65% Mech Heat
Consumable Modules

UAV remains unchanged
Coolshot remains unchanged

Consumable Modules for Scout/Medium Classes

Change Artillery Accuracy to Artillery Painter
Change Airstrike Accuracy to Airstrike Painter
These Modules launch like a UAV based on launching Mechs Reticle, Strike carrying command Mechs target them as they would a normal target and use them to launch Air and Artillery Strikes.
NOTE: Air and Artillery can be used LoS like they are now but accuracy is greatly reduced

Consumable Modules For Heavy/Assault Classes (Including Command Mechs)

Currently only Coolshots apply here.
Sorry, couldn’t think of anything else offhand (working on it )

Air and Artillery Strikes
Air and Artillery restricted to COMMAND Mechs ONLY (Atlas, BattleMaster and Clan equivalents)

Mech Modules

Well, there are lots of those with room to add more, no need to expand on this further.

I think you're on a decent track here, but I'd still prefer better "mech" skill trees (which should be pilot trees).

I like calling them Basic(or Rookie)/ Veteran/Elite/Master.

In each category I think the number and type of unlock should be specific to ALL mechs of the class (Basic)/ All mechs of that Chassis (Veteran)/ All mechs of that variant (Elite) / special final unlock (omni-module slot still sounds fine to me).

So you finish the basic skills quickly... done you never have to earn them again for a class of mechs (so you have to earn them 4 times) Things that are good here are the movement quirks (Kinetic Burst/Hard Brake/Twist Speed/Twist X) AND the basics of heat management (Cool Run) (total XP spent on one set ~20k) so you need to spend about 80k to unlock all the basic skills. This might sound pretty big, but you're earning a big benefit in that you only need to do this 4 times now.

At veteran you have to earn these skills once for every mech chassis. Here we'll see a selection of skills more specific to each mech type, including some advanced quirks.
Each mech chassis should get:
1: at least one mech module unlocked
2: some set of weapons modules unlocked (tier 1 and 2)
3/4: special quirks to the chassis to unlock.... like the damage reduction and energy weapon specialization of the Awesome.
5: One of the following (Scouts: speed tweak, Harassers: Anchor Turn, Combat heavy: Weapons module unlocks 3-5, Command mechs: global sharing of a single mech module withing a 180m radius) ect... lots of special things to come up with.
Should cost around 20k for all 5 skills. Again larger than before, but you only do it once per mech.


At Elite tier skills the pilot is earning skills specific to a mech variant. There should be around two of these per variant, and should vary widely. Some could pick up skills they're missing from #5 in veteran, some might get extra special quirks...
AWS 8Q (ability to fire 3PPC's with no ghost heat or energy load penalty)
Spider 5V (ability to use a UAV 2x in a match instead of 1x)
Jeager DD (additional ballistic's weapons cooldown)
Atlas K (additional damage reduction to side torsos)
ect...
These skills should COST, they're special, they help make your mech special, should should WANT to unlock these skills. And you've been treated pretty decently up until now on costs... these should cost around 25k each.

At Mastered all receive an extra module slot that's open to any type. Should cost through the roof... 50k.

Total XP spent to master 1 mech is 57250 (if you discount that you need 3 variants through elite).

So for 3 mastered mechs you need 171750 XP.

Under the system above, to master 1 mech you need about 100K (but half of that is the last module unlock)
to master 3 mechs you need about 300000 XP... but to unlock MOST of the quirks for the mech you need about 150k (just a little less than before).

[van Uber]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Why are you so afraid to make Clans and IS asymmetrical? You have done well with the weapons, dropped the ball with the TG/CC. Please don't hold back, go further. Add more flavour!

[Deathlike]

Gorgo7, on 01 August 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

I couldn't disagree with you more.
Hill Climb in a big engine Awesome or Orion makes for a sweet flanker on the mainline.
Hill Climb in a Hunchback can be a scary thing for the enemy...mine anyway.
Hill Climb in a Wolverine 6K with a big 350 or 360 can do fabulous things with a Narc.

Role warfare anyone?

Cap accelerator carried on two speedy machines as part of a split lance can easily turn the tide of a swift capture game.

Role warfare anyone?

Anyone?

Write about what you know. Not what you imagine.

I can tell you that you are clearly not playing the same game that some of us are.

If you feel "it is useful to you" that's great. However over the long term vs "more competent players", the effects of other certain modules are minimized, to the point there isn't much ROI. While you may still like some of the "not so great" modules, it doesn't actually make them good. It's like saying the Locust is a good mech. While people defend it, it's not something one would take if there is something on the line.

[drizz786]

Every mech I own is now more general because I'm limited by "mech" slots, a bit ironic . But the way is open now slots are in groups some judicious renaming and redistribution of slot numbers and ta da! Chose your role enabled :-)

[Shino Tenshi]

The other thing I meant to mention earlier, which I'm sure is echoing many other people, is that the current weapon modules are completely worthless at the cost they're given. I've often thought of adding one to a few of my mechs, but the millions of c-bills really isn't worth the 1-2% gain in range you get at the second level.

I personally think something more in line with 5% per level would work well. By the time you get to the 5th level, there's a 25% increase to the weapon range, which personally I think would justify putting 2mil into a module.

[Ultimax]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

*Grabs fire extinguisher*

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Inner Sphere:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

Clans:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

HOWEVER:
Only one of each type can be fielded on a given 'Mech. So no, you will not be able to take 1 Air and 1 Arty on a single 'Mech.

To re-iterate again... the Master Module Slot (unlocked via mastering your 'Mech) is being changed to be a combo slot where you can put another Weapon Module OR a 'Mech Module.

The principle behind the limitations on Module Slots is to force a hard line decision as to what adjustments you make to your 'Mechs. Do you want to take Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor? Which is going to align with your playstyle? Modules were never meant to be a "leveling" system for your 'Mech where you eventually get everything put on your 'Mech.

The design approach has always been this... we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs. Basically this will be opening a large field of possible selections. The module slot restriction makes that decision a very important one when customizing the loadout of your 'Mech. There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

Thanks for the insight.

[Edward Mattlov]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

*Grabs fire extinguisher*

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Inner Sphere:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

Clans:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

HOWEVER:
Only one of each type can be fielded on a given 'Mech. So no, you will not be able to take 1 Air and 1 Arty on a single 'Mech.

To re-iterate again... the Master Module Slot (unlocked via mastering your 'Mech) is being changed to be a combo slot where you can put another Weapon Module OR a 'Mech Module.

The principle behind the limitations on Module Slots is to force a hard line decision as to what adjustments you make to your 'Mechs. Do you want to take Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor? Which is going to align with your playstyle? Modules were never meant to be a "leveling" system for your 'Mech where you eventually get everything put on your 'Mech.

The design approach has always been this... we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs. Basically this will be opening a large field of possible selections. The module slot restriction makes that decision a very important one when customizing the loadout of your 'Mech. There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

Good thing, I have only clan mechs on my account and I paid 15000 gxp to unlock IMP Arty, so I would be expecting a refund of the GXP if I was no longer able to use Artys. Also, most of the Air / Arty strike abuse is from comp players using IS mechs. When you get comp players to agree not to use arty / air strikes, the games are a bit closer (although some of the players are legitimately good and will still win).

[donut overdose]

I'm glad that you are fine tuning the game and adding content. But it is absolutely unacceptable that you removed a mech module. Please return the mech module in the next patch. I don't use any of the other slots and probably never will.

[Chaosity]

It is quite obvious from the 2nd entry in the initial topic post that PGI is going to totally ignore its users regarding mech modules and try to stroke us with a change to air/arty strike.

WHOOPIE!!! I AM SO IMPRESSED!

Come on PGI... set your egos aside and LISTEN/RESPOND PROPERLY to your users. You know, the guys that ultimately make your pay checks not bounce.

[Yokaiko]

Chaosity, on 01 August 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

It is quite obvious from the 2nd entry in the initial topic post that PGI is going to totally ignore its users regarding mech modules and try to stroke us with a change to air/arty strike.

WHOOPIE!!! I AM SO IMPRESSED!

Come on PGI... set your egos aside and LISTEN/RESPOND PROPERLY to your users. You know, the guys that ultimately make your pay checks not bounce.

lol ggclose.

[Gremlich Johns]

you should fix ECM as well, or change its name to what it is

"Cloak"

Oh, and modules that extend laser ranges?

Poor idea and obviously a cash grab.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 01 August 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Having 2 mech module slots will simply mean less types of modules get used.
You will see the Vision, Radar Derp, Seismic used most often by lots of people.
I actually had a Hill Climb Module id put as the 3rd module on my Assualt (some Heavy) mechs - that module will never be used again with this 2 module slot only garbage. Im sure the same will be the case for the other less usefull modules - They just wont be used anymore.

* Really want 3 (more would actually be better & allow people to use more varying modules too) mech modules back.

Edited by Ace Selin, 01 August 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Ace Selin, on 01 August 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Having 2 mech module slots will simply mean less types of modules get used.
You will see the Vision, Radar Derp, Seismic used most often by lots of people.
I actually had a Hill Climb Module id put as the 3rd module on my Assualt (some Heavy) mechs - that module will never be used again with this 2 module slot only garbage. Im sure the same will be the case for the other less usefull modules - They just wont be used anymore.

* Really want 3 (more would actually be better & allow people to use more varying modules too) mech modules back.

You make common sense, total Vulcan, Mr Spock, common sense. Unfortunately, it looks like PGI is operating under the Ferengi business model..

Shino Tenshi, on 01 August 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

The other thing I meant to mention earlier, which I'm sure is echoing many other people, is that the current weapon modules are completely worthless at the cost they're given. I've often thought of adding one to a few of my mechs, but the millions of c-bills really isn't worth the 1-2% gain in range you get at the second level.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 August 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

[Gorgo7]

Deathlike, on 01 August 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

I can tell you that you are clearly not playing the same game that some of us are.

If you feel "it is useful to you" that's great. However over the long term vs "more competent players", the effects of other certain modules are minimized, to the point there isn't much ROI. While you may still like some of the "not so great" modules, it doesn't actually make them good. It's like saying the Locust is a good mech. While people defend it, it's not something one would take if there is something on the line.

Yes, well, some of us are playing a game that involves maneuvering.
Some of us are capable of making hard decisions where modules are concerned. Some of us don't strut and call ourselves "more competent players"...
ROI? What? Are you a CEO or a Mechwarrior?
Don't get me wrong, my Awesome 9M sports Radar Deprivation and Hill Climb. It moves at 85km/h. Did I make a poor decision not equipping it with Seismic? I don't camp, I'm too mobile for that. Seismic is useless when in motion or beyond 200m.
Should I have taken Target Info Gathering? I have it on my 8Q...
I can hit anything within 800m without a zoom module so I don't equip one.
9 by 9 cool shot and an artey strike. That's four modules.
Oh and for fun a med laser range extender. What the hell, I own it and every little bit helps. The heat is negligible.
Tell me again why you need three mech modules and I'll tell you to go drive a Hunchback.
Sorry chum, I think you need to loosen up.
Adapt or die.

[Vassago Rain]

RetroActive, on 31 July 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Why not leave the number of mech module slots as they were before and ADD the weapon and consumable slots to all mechs? That still encourages people to use the useless weapon modules and spend cbills on the consumables. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

Had they done this, no one would have blinked an eye.

The reason so many got so mad is because they bought the big clan packages, which have 2 and 4 bonus modules, that are obviously supposed to be used on the invasion omnis. People tend to notice when you steal from them.

[Deathlike]

Gorgo7, on 01 August 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

Yes, well, some of us are playing a game that involves maneuvering.

They are called Jump Jets on mechs that can field them.

Quote

ROI? What? Are you a CEO or a Mechwarrior?

I should have said "value", to make the point more clear to you.

Quote

Don't get me wrong, my Awesome 9M sports Radar Deprivation and Hill Climb. It moves at 85km/h. Did I make a poor decision not equipping it with Seismic? I don't camp, I'm too mobile for that. Seismic is useless when in motion or beyond 200m.

If you've never used Seismic, then clearly you've never understood its value when it was truly OP when it initially debuted.

Quote

Sorry chum, I think you need to loosen up.
Adapt or die.

Already adapted. The previous listed modules are the best, and will still be the case until further notice.

[Sandslice]

Ace Selin, on 01 August 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Having 2 mech module slots will simply mean less types of modules get used.
You will see the Vision, Radar Derp, Seismic used most often by lots of people.

That was true when people had 3 and even 4.

Quote

I actually had a Hill Climb Module id put as the 3rd module on my Assualt (some Heavy) mechs - that module will never be used again with this 2 module slot only garbage. Im sure the same will be the case for the other less usefull modules - They just wont be used anymore.

* Really want 3 (more would actually be better & allow people to use more varying modules too) mech modules back.

It's well-established that getting 3 back (and several variants actually DO have 3, just not 3-base) will lead to people simply taking three of the optimals.

What people really want is this: "We have a certain list of modules that we have declared mandatory; and we want to be able to 'choose' them without opportunity cost, AND have choice beyond that."

[Deathlike]

Sandslice, on 01 August 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

What people really want is this: "We have a certain list of modules that we have declared mandatory; and we want to be able to 'choose' them without opportunity cost, AND have choice beyond that."

I don't think people are "necessarily" asking for that, although some will. While I'm not one of them, but I shouldn't actually be able to pick like both Radar Deprivation AND Seismic Sensor, unless the mech had the slots that could field both (the former for Radar based modules, and the latter for Sensor based modules). Right now, they are competing against a host of bad ones like 350 Target Retention (which has rather limited purposes) and Sensor Range (which is woefully outdated and not as useful as it once was back in Open Beta) or 360 Targeting.

I'm just saying module diversity needs to be given through roles... and most modules have really crappy roles.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 August 2014 - 09:55 PM.