588 replies to this topic

[Mindnut]

I didn't have any problems with the recent module slot changes, but I had a problem with weapon modules themselves (insignificant bonus) since day one. Now that "I'm forced" to use them I will probably get the AMS mods only.

Then I read Sukotto's post and honestly... couldn't have said this better myself.

Sukotto, on 29 July 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Now that the problem is fixed, I have to agree with what everyone is saying.

In the previous system, I was actually staying away from Arty and Air strikes in order to SPECIALIZE as a sniper build by utilizing Advanced Zoom along with Seismic and Radar Deprivation.

In the new system, it is just silly not to run Arty and Air in the Consumable slot. And since there is one less spot for static modules, I am forced to drop Advanced Zoom and stick with Seismic and Radar Deprivation. So I've actually become more of a general build instead of the specialized build I had before

Edited by Mindnut, 01 August 2014 - 12:58 AM.

[Leigus]

Why not a 30 second team cooldown for strikes? By reducing the frequency at which strikes can occur, you further them into the niche of being an "area denial weapon" (as is supposedly intended) at the same time as cutting back on spam.
Also, seeing as the max amount of damage a mech's head can soak is 33pts, wouldn't 30damage / shell make much more sense than 35 damage / shell and "special resistance" of the mech's head to Strike damage?

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Stupid to capitulate to the whiners here who want BOTH their Clan tech AND their arty spam spam too. A golden opportunity to bring some balance back into this game, lost. RIP Inner Sphere, you're once again completely outclassed by the Clans in every possible way.

Pay to Win marches forward in this game, at the explicit request of vocal members of the playerbase. How ironic, and sad.

[SVK Puskin]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

...we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs.

Ok but these weapon modules are totally useless and most of us refuse to use them and ofcourse spend C-Bills!!! Come one do not ignore this fact otherwise the wave of disapointment and frustration will not vanish!!! React also to these complains!!! Hello, anybody hear me(us)???

[SVK Puskin]

Bad Andy, on 31 July 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

weapon modules are barely used, marginal extra range in exchange for more heat is usually a bad tradeoff

consumables are basically just UAV for lights on a team or generally just arty/air strike in both slots since cool shot is not that great

how is this role warfare?

Well i am using cool shots since they introduced them.

[Appogee]

ENS Puskin, on 01 August 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Well i am using cool shots since they introduced them.

Edited by Appogee, 01 August 2014 - 03:23 AM.

[Evil Ed]

Lights are the best mechs to drop strikes with, especially air strikes. So, lights nerfed - again. Thanks PGI.

Edited by Evil Ed, 01 August 2014 - 03:35 AM.

[Falcrist]

Jabilo, on 31 July 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Weapon modules need to be more exciting and less bland.

Some crazy ideas off the top of my head.

PPC:
"Magnetic pulse" successful hits cause enemy hud to flicker and lose targeting information for 3 seconds. Does one less point of damage. Chain fire your PPC for maximum goodness.

Large lasers:
"Infrared Attenuation" does slightly less damage and adds heat to target

Various ACs
"Penetrator Rounds" causes 10% more armour damage and 10% less internal damage. Less ammo per ton.

Gauss Rifle
"Capacitor Overload" 10% more damage and range, small chance of critical failure on firing!

SRMs
"Hot loaded warheads" 10% more damage but 20% more damage to mech if suffering ammo explosion

LRMs
"Advanced guidance fins" LRMS fire towards cross hairs before bending to target. Just like MW4 the skilled player can send them over hills and around corners! Maybe do a little less damage to compensate.

SRMs
"Inferno warheads" less damage but add heat to target.

ER large
"Ultraviolet Attenuation" Causes beams to be much fainter and difficult to see. Help snipers keep their position hidden. Slightly less damage.

Ok these may be impractical and frankly terrible, but they are interesting! Add x range and x heat in minuscule amounts is not interesting.

I really like your ideas
*thumbs up*

[Dhread Danite]

How about fixing the fact that the lights are the new assaults in this game. You cant hit them as it takes at least three other size mechs to kill them and if you are an assault and the only one left to fight them you probably will lose. I was in a dire whale and a Raven 3L killed me as I was alone. Now with the consumables they run in drop arty and air and pretty much rule the game. There was nothing wrong with the module system as it was and you spent the time fixing something that wasn't broken instead of addressing the other issues of this game.

[Gorgo7]

Paul,

Good job, stay the course.

[Khobai]

Quote

This patch was business as usual: one step forward, two steps back.

It wasnt really a step backwards. The module system isnt any worse than it was before. And its arguably better since you can use consumables more freely (plus the main concern was addressed and artillery/airstrikes are being limited in an upcoming patch).

But it was still far from the module revamp we were hoping for... players want a module system that very clearly seperates mechs into different roles. And they want each of those roles to be important to winning the game. Role warfare was stated as being one of the four pillars of MWO, yet very little has been done so far to make that a reality.

Here's how I think modules should be revamped:

Spoiler

PGI needs to divide mech modules and module slots into subcategories like: defense, sensor, mobility, support, etc... a module should only be useable in a slot that matches its type (or a universal slot).

Mechs should have 1-2 mech module slots of various categories in addition to 1-2 weapon slots and 2 consumable slots. Mastery of a mech would also give a universal module slot that any module could go in. Most mediums would also get a bonus universal slot because mediums are supposed to be the most versatile weight class.

Assaults/Heavies: focus mostly on weapon/defense/support modules
Mediums: get a bonus universal slot and can use the best combinations of modules
Lights: focus mostly on weapon/sensor/mobility modules.

Additionally each mech could have an "affinity" with a particular module and gain minor bonus quirks whenever that module is equipped. That would help encourage some of the lesser used modules get used more often.

For example the Atlas might have affinity with 360 target retention (since the Atlas had rear firing weapons in tabletop). If the Atlas has the 360 target retention module equipped it might gain a quirk that increases its sensor range and detailed target info speed by 10% and 20% respectively.

The potential for a system like this is that every single mech could have different module slots. And the "best" modules would differ from mech to mech. It would also be the first step in giving us role warfare.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[Hannibal Chow]

Too little too late Paul ....

Just revert to the original mod system like your customers want - or can you pgi guys not read 22 pages of plain English?

Seems odd that none of you have heard the retail motto "The customer is allways right"

Not one penny more untill you start to fecking well listen to us!

Edited by Jaz 249, 01 August 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Deathlike]

Referenced link:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3600444

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

*Grabs fire extinguisher*

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Inner Sphere:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

Clans:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

HOWEVER:
Only one of each type can be fielded on a given 'Mech. So no, you will not be able to take 1 Air and 1 Arty on a single 'Mech.

I guess that's "slightly better"? Meh.

Quote

To re-iterate again... the Master Module Slot (unlocked via mastering your 'Mech) is being changed to be a combo slot where you can put another Weapon Module OR a 'Mech Module.

The principle behind the limitations on Module Slots is to force a hard line decision as to what adjustments you make to your 'Mechs. Do you want to take Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor? Which is going to align with your playstyle? Modules were never meant to be a "leveling" system for your 'Mech where you eventually get everything put on your 'Mech.

The design approach has always been this... we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs. Basically this will be opening a large field of possible selections. The module slot restriction makes that decision a very important one when customizing the loadout of your 'Mech. There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

Paul, do you read feedback?

As of today, even the highly competitive players agree with this module loadout

Mech Modules:
Radar Deprivation
Seismic Sensor (usually after the mech is mastered)

Consumables:
Artillery
Airstrike

Weapon Modules:
"does not matter"

Your proposed solution will look like this:

Mech Modules:
Radar Deprivation

Mastered Slot (Mech or Weapon):
Seismic Sensor

Consumable:
Arty/Airstrike
Coolant

Weapon Modules:
"still does not matter"

I'm not sure how that is much of an upgrade, as this will be the standard for most/all mechs. There will be variations like UAVs instead of Coolant for Light Mechs or Target Decay for a missile boat... but ultimately speaking, you've locked down "definitive modules" in each bracket, which literally creates "no diversity". There's virtually no reason to use Improved Gyro, Capture Accelerator, or even 360 Target Retention... just simply based on a cost/benefit analysis (which, actually require you to play with other people to understand the logic behind it).

So... ultimately Paul, the thinking behind it "sounds great on paper", but is poorly executed because you didn't look at the picture you have created for yourself.

Even if you DO create better weapon modules, the other Mech modules decisions will remain unchanged.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 August 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Has anything been said by the Dev about the mech that used to be balanced with 1 more module and lost it now? Is this intended or an oversight?

[Deathlike]

DAYLEET, on 01 August 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Has anything been said by the Dev about the mech that used to be balanced with 1 more module and lost it now? Is this intended or an oversight?

No, but it's clearly an oversight, like the Catapult-A1 vs the Champion version. The regular one has an additional mech module slot.

Clearly, it's working as intended.

[Sandslice]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 01 August 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

Stupid to capitulate to the whiners here who want BOTH their Clan tech AND their arty spam spam too. A golden opportunity to bring some balance back into this game, lost. RIP Inner Sphere, you're once again completely outclassed by the Clans in every possible way.

Pay to Win marches forward in this game, at the explicit request of vocal members of the playerbase. How ironic, and sad.

You missed the other half. Arty and air are being merged into one category, Strike, and you can only carry one Strike.

[Soulsbane]

I would argue against restricting arty strikes to IS only. While I do understand the lore/philosophical argument against clan utilizing arty, I would prefer to maintain balance between the availability to both sides rather than a lore based discrepancy.

Just my 2 cbills worth...

[Galaxy Crusader Puppeteer]

I really dont see the problems in new module update. Arty or Airstrike isnt so hard to avoid , and even less to place a good spot on arty strike with out taking any hits from enemy unless running in a light low profile fast mech that can go in and out quickly.

I only mind weapon slots which cost more then they provide for.

Game is evolving in a good direction which i like.

Good player adapts . Bad players whine.

Edited by CL7K20, 01 August 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[MountainCopper]

I am going to repeat myself here by saying that, in their current state, Weapon Modules are all just minor range improvements for little more heat. All are the same - no variety in any of them.

They are of too little use to warrant the existence of 2 or even 3 Weapon Module slots on Mechs.
Of course, if your future plans contain introducing new modules and/or improving existing ones, it would be different.
Although I understand that balance is tricky when going from "too little benefit" to "a must have module for everybody" like one or two Mech Modules we have right now.

Quote

The Dev Team has heard out your concerns regarding the over-use of Artillery and Air Strikes. With your feedback in mind the following changes are to be implemented within the next 2 patches.

That means enduring up to 4 weeks of "over-use". Not looking forward to it...

And afterwards it will very likely continue with Artillery Strikes on one side and Air Strikes on the other. How is this going to be a real reduction of spamming (damage dealing) consumables?

Edited by GoldenFleece, 01 August 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Puresin]

do not like the new module system.

Would like a FULL refund in c-bills for the ones I have bought then I would definitely re-buy the ones that I would use and wouldn't have spent billions of c-bills on stuff that, I no longer have the necessary amount of mechs to use up. and if i did then there are going to be excesses of the ones that I just can't get onto a mech due to the limit of slots.

not asking for money back. just the c-bills, nor the Gxp. just the c-bills.