588 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Ok so PGI

You simpletons took the regular modules OFF of the mech select tab. Are you daft, I didn't want 16 MORE frigging clicks everytime I changed mechs. I USED to be able to just use the modify consumables for all of my module needs now I need to use the mechlab.

Are you trying to make ui2.slow ever worse

YOU ARE SUCCEEDINIG! HIRE A USABILITY GUY!

[Almond Brown]

GroovYChickeN, on 31 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about this. It really doesn't changes much of anything.

And imagine the QQ and whining levels IF the Weapon Modules were actually a BIG plus? OMFG! Put 50M on LL and no Heat and guess what the new Meta would be in 12 hours? Or really increase the range and projectile speed of a Ballistic weapon...

The "I want my Cake and to eat it to" crowd is strong here. We need more Lollipops to give the kiddies having their latest childish tantrums. "MOM! the big bad man took my Lollipop!... (it was the brats Dentist before doing a filling btw)

Edited by Almond Brown, 31 July 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Koniks]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

Thank you for providing more information.

I disagree that there are any tough choices at the moment. Radar Deprivation and Advanced Seismic Sensors are far and away the 2 best modules for any build that isn't LRM-dependent, ECM-capable, or a light mech. Advanced Sensor Range and Advanced Target Decay are the next best but only if LRMs are the primary weapon system on a mech.

The other modules are only worth taking if you have 3 or more mech module slots. And it's not a close call. So rather than differentiating mechs through modules, they're homogenized.

I appreciate the Design team wanting to make weapon modules more prominent and to give incentive for players to specialize by using them. The current approach doesn't do that.

It would also be useful if we were told what other weapon modules to expect. But even then, changing how weapons function isn't going to dramatically change roles. Mech modules were the closest thing to that so long as we have a generic mech skill tree.

Edited by Mizeur, 31 July 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Almond Brown, on 31 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

And imagine the QQ and whining levels IF the Weapon Modules were actually a BIG plus? OMFG! Put 50M on LL and no Heat and guess what the new Meta would be in 12 hours? Or really increase the range and projectile speed of a Ballistic weapon...

The "I want my Cake and to eat it to" crowd is strong here. We need more Lollipops to give the kiddies having their latest childish tantrums. "MOM! the big bad man took my Lollipop!... (it was the brats Dentist before doing a filling btw)

Stop insulting other players and discuss the issue at hand like an adult, please.

[damonwolf]

First off, thank you for NOT implementing the Clan-Arty restriction. That's one potential thorn removed from our paws.

Quote

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

No, it doesn't clear up frustrations at all. Don't you get what the community is telling you Paul? They are giving very clear and concise feedback on your forced weapon module change:

NO!!!

People don't want your weapon modules!!! People don't want to lose a Mech module for a weapon module
THEY WON'T USE!!!
Do you get it yet?

There are many interesting and workable ideas in this thread from concerned players, please heed them. the majority of the posters are telling you loud and clear that they don't want to be forced to use weapon modules, especially as they are now. Quit trying to force something down our throats that we don't want. If you really care about offering variety and choice, then offer it instead of limiting it. Offering choice would be:
1) Having all module slots, except the consumable one, be combo slots. If people want to equip 3 Mech modules, let them. If people want to equip 2 different weapon modules and Mech module, let them. THAT'S choice.
2) make weapon modules actually worth something. You say that you will be releasing more weapon modules...that doesn't mean that they won't be crap like the current crop. Double the crap = crap. If you make them worth it, people will equip them. Forcing them to equip them won't make them equip them either. Get it?
3) Reset the system for everyone when you finally get it un$#%@ed. Refund CBills/ and GXP. That way people can start fresh and choose what they want.
4) have Arty/Air strikes ONLY usable for pilots that have a Command Console or Targeting Comp Mk III or greater equipped. That way the Art/Air spam will be controlled.

To be perfectly honest PGI, I don't have any positive outlook to this issue/controversy YOU have created. You will leave the module system broken the way it is now, try to force people to equip more crap that they don't want/won't use, and keep your customers frustrated and angry.
You act like you want constructive feedback to make improvements to the game, but it's all false empowerment to appease the masses. Crying "because Community Warfare" is like crying "Wolf"...eventually people don't believe the BS anymore and give up on you.
The saying goes thus: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

Edited by damonwolf, 31 July 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[Marukage]

I say it again

i need my 4!!!!!! modulsplot in Yen-LO-Wang .. ..
please give me/us back this 4 modulsplot.

or do I have to withdraw from sale/do I have to give back the mech
demand my MC back.

thx

mfg/regards
maru

[Haji1096]

It is currently impossible to move mech and weapon modules around in the group or private lobby mech select screen. Only consumables can be bought.

if you want to switch out mech/weapon modules to a different mech between private matches, you now have to drop the lobby, perform the changes in mechlab then get re invited. Now Imagine 24 people doing this at the same time, and it adds significant time on to the privately run tournaments, for which we need MC to run private lobbies.

How this got overlooked is beyond me.

Edited by Haji1096, 31 July 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[Tynan]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

<snip>
The principle behind the limitations on Module Slots is to force a hard line decision as to what adjustments you make to your 'Mechs. Do you want to take Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor? Which is going to align with your playstyle? Modules were never meant to be a "leveling" system for your 'Mech where you eventually get everything put on your 'Mech.

The design approach has always been this... we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs. Basically this will be opening a large field of possible selections. The module slot restriction makes that decision a very important one when customizing the loadout of your 'Mech. There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

So I'm giving you the incentive behind the design calls made and I hope that clears up some of the frustrations you have. Give it a go, adapt and see what happens. It's all I can ask.

Forcing choices is a good thing, but let's look at all of the currently available modules that you've categorized as Mech Modules:
360 TARGET RETENTION
ADVANCED ZOOM
CAPTURE ACCELERATOR
HILL CLIMB
IMPROVED GYROS
RADAR DEPRIVATION
SEISMIC SENSOR
SENSOR RANGE
SHOCK ABSORBANCE
SPEED RETENTION
TARGET DECAY
TARGET INFO GATHERING

You can now take one or, if mastered, two of these modules on most mechs. Previous posters are right, this doesn't encourage decision making because there isn't anything approaching parity on most of the modules. On top of that, many of these at least seem like they were intended to be used in concert, like Sensor Range and Target Decay, for example.

Also, you need to realize that, as has been mentioned previously, limiting modules so narrowly consigns new modules to the scrap heap before they even come out unless they eclipse one of the existing "good" modules. Just to take the recent example, who in their right mind would take Speed Retention over, say, Radar Dep? Or Seismic? All Speed Retention does is let you go 10kph faster when legged....that's certainly not on par with any of the first line modules. With such a restrictive system, you've ensured that it will *never* be used. Which, as others have mentioned, encourages cookie-cutter builds, not diversity.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: The way to do this is to break these (and future) modules into categories and fine-tune the available module slots on a mech by mech basis. Give Ravens and other EW mechs a lot of sensor modules. Give Jagers weapon modules. Give the notorious hearty Centy movement modules, etc etc.

Paul, what you're *trying* to accomplish here I think most people would agree with, but this system as-is I think you'll find is going encourage everyone to bring the same few modules to the field. I mean...you track module use by match, so you'll be able to see the effect.

[Seelenlos]

Hi PGI-Team,

thanks for the MWO till now, but this last decision made me ready for E.D. to BUY in full!

Till then I will only play it with my friend,

Still as a REFUND of myself to your efferts here is a concet maybe help you and the rest of the community:

2 Concepts:

Concept 1: (Not my favorite)
Light Mechs: 1 Universal, 2 Sepecilized M-Slots
Med: 2 Univ. 2 Specialized
Heavy: 3 Uni 3 Speci
Assault: 4 Uni, 3 Spec


Concept 2:
Modules cost slots by usefullnes: Zoom 5 Slots, Seismic 3 Slots, Range 3 Slots, etc (your and community judgment on it)
Lights 5 or 7 slots
Med: 7-9 Slots
Hvy: 7-12 Slots
Assault: 12-15

So anybody can still take his module but must pay a slot price for the most used Modules (ask your DB-Admins on what modules are must used and give them 5 slots)

Well you don*t need to pay me for that, but hire a better logic-designer ...

Regards

[Myke Pantera]

My feedback is: No matter how i look at the new changes i can't see how this is meant to improve role-warfare. This is just dropping of words the community wants to hear.

It's like: We want to force you to use consumables because we believe this adds role-warfare, improves community warfare, solves balancing issues and removes ghost heat from the game. Yeah, right.

So if this is an honest attempt to add role warfare, please explain me how!

In the mean time look at this Role Warfare Module System feature suggestion poll.

[Ragnar Bashmek]

I am going to explain the general angst about the module slot change to you (PGI) on a different level since you all seem to be clueless noobs about marketing.

Differentiating the slot types and adding the sophomoric money sink of the "auto-refill" BS might have gone over with minimal teeth gnashing if you had not been so stupid as to take something away from players in the process.

Real players would have still been upset about your inviting of massive arty/air spam in the pursuit of making a few bucks on auto-refiling arty and air strikes, but that would have been easily remedied as you have figured out.

However taking away mech module slots that nearly everyone enjoyed having and using was just a boneheaded mistake. No amount of rationalizing about "fits with future plans", or "balancing" or any other blah blah BS will change that Most players will never forget or forgive the feeling that they have been robbed. In the case of the Clan mechs, literally robbed.

Pissing off your player community is not a formula for economic success.

No charge for the Marketing 101 primer

[Sandslice]

Paul Inouye, on 31 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

*Grabs fire extinguisher*

I think you'll need a Fluid Gun support vehicle with like 47 tons of Water Ammo. *Drives one up for you*

Quote

I just talked with Alex on this and I've requested the airstrike only limitation to the Clans to be removed. The initial separation is something I requested a while ago but after seeing your feedback I don't see the need to remove that module completely for the Clans.

Inner Sphere:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

Clans:
* Can use Air Strikes
* Can use Artillery

HOWEVER:
Only one of each type can be fielded on a given 'Mech. So no, you will not be able to take 1 Air and 1 Arty on a single 'Mech.

Should that "each" be "either" instead? Paraphrasing: "You can only take one of each; so no, you will not be able to take one of each," which is paradox.

Quote

To re-iterate again... the Master Module Slot (unlocked via mastering your 'Mech) is being changed to be a combo slot where you can put another Weapon Module OR a 'Mech Module.

Currently, the Master Module Slot is a 'Mech slot; changing it to a mixed 'Mech / Weapon slot won't change anything unless the Weapon Modules become an interesting choice. People will still (almost invariably) continue to use it as a 'Mech slot.

And given that many players have come to consider 3-5 of the 'Mech modules "mandatory," the Weapon Modules need to be rather good in order to rise to the level of interesting for most. I'm aware that y'all intend to create more modules; please, at least, keep this in mind. ^^

Quote

The principle behind the limitations on Module Slots is to force a hard line decision as to what adjustments you make to your 'Mechs. Do you want to take Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor? Which is going to align with your playstyle? Modules were never meant to be a "leveling" system for your 'Mech where you eventually get everything put on your 'Mech.

I think everyone gets that this is the core of y'all's intent. I also think that, at least for some (eg, RVN-3L and AS7-D-DC) pilots, they've gotten used to not being required to choose --- which is why y'all are seeing the pushback and threats to quit / not fund or whatnot.

On the other hand, the Stalker, JR7-F, and other (former) one-mod pilots are sitting pretty, because they only gained options rather than tradeoffs.

Quote

The design approach has always been this... we plan on releasing a LOT more modules (there are 3 more tiers of weapon modules and range isn't the only property being addressed) for both weapons and 'Mechs. Basically this will be opening a large field of possible selections. The module slot restriction makes that decision a very important one when customizing the loadout of your 'Mech. There will be tough choices you will have to make as to which modules you bring with you. Different loadouts require different modules and this is where the fine tuning aspect of 'Mech customization comes into play.

I requested of Niko before. I don't expect this to happen, but could you maybe share some of the brainstorming you have about some of the other weapon modules? If not I understand and look forward to them in their good time.

Also, maybe some new consumables - if they're interesting enough, maybe they can help curtail Long Tom Overheating as well.

[BSK]

GroovYChickeN, on 31 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about this. It really doesn't changes much of anything.

Do me a favour, pick a Dire Wolf, anyone. Any loadout you want. Any weapons. But just 1 module.

Then play conquest mode.

If you get more than 100 damage, consider yourself ilKhan ..

[Jabilo]

Weapon modules need to be more exciting and less bland.

Some crazy ideas off the top of my head.

PPC:
"Magnetic pulse" successful hits cause enemy hud to flicker and lose targeting information for 3 seconds. Does one less point of damage. Chain fire your PPC for maximum goodness.

Large lasers:
"Infrared Attenuation" does slightly less damage and adds heat to target

Various ACs
"Penetrator Rounds" causes 10% more armour damage and 10% less internal damage. Less ammo per ton.

Gauss Rifle
"Capacitor Overload" 10% more damage and range, small chance of critical failure on firing!

SRMs
"Hot loaded warheads" 10% more damage but 20% more damage to mech if suffering ammo explosion

LRMs
"Advanced guidance fins" LRMS fire towards cross hairs before bending to target. Just like MW4 the skilled player can send them over hills and around corners! Maybe do a little less damage to compensate.

SRMs
"Inferno warheads" less damage but add heat to target.

ER large
"Ultraviolet Attenuation" Causes beams to be much fainter and difficult to see. Help snipers keep their position hidden. Slightly less damage.

Ok these may be impractical and frankly terrible, but they are interesting! Add x range and x heat in minuscule amounts is not interesting.

Edited by Jabilo, 31 July 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Yokaiko]

BSK, on 31 July 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

Do me a favour, pick a Dire Wolf, anyone. Any loadout you want. Any weapons. But just 1 module.

Then play conquest mode.

If you get more than 100 damage, consider yourself ilKhan ..

-A with a pair of LRM 20s, good for 300 just on fighting over the caps, specially since they moved the Alpine caps on top of each other.

[PANZERKAT]

System should be fine with some tuning. I'm a believer that everything should be hitting the ground running instead of all these slow paces to bring a feature up to speed. Certain mechs not having extra slots seems to be something easy to pay attention too.

[Ensaine]

My feedback:

My issue is that I ground out the C-Bills and GXP to unlock modules to be used on my Mechs.

I ground out the XP needed to unlock the Master slot, with the expectation that I'd have access to the additional module slot.

As I play mostly brawlers, and as I do NOT use the craptastic Weapon modules, or consumables, this has resulted in a LOSS of one usable Module slot.. you know... the one I spent a good amount of time (much of it PREMIUM time) grinding out the XP, GXP, and C-Bills needed to get said modules equipped. Yes, most of my mechs have/had 3 slots after mastery.

You have essentially taken back that slot I earned, and feel I should be able to use. NOW.

It is plain this is aiming towards a money grab, and was poorly deployed. And it in NO way has anything to do for role warfare. Anyone can see that.

Edited by Ensaine, 31 July 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Doctor Proctor]

I see that PGI still hasn't figured out the problem here. Limiting us to two modules doesn't result in more choice, but less. Let me give you a concrete example of what happens if you reduce someone from 3 to 2 modules.

On my BJ-1, which I run using the Bam build, equips the Seismic, Radar Deprivation and Target Info Gathering modules. This setup allows him to get in close while not getting LRM'd to death, find enemy targets and then get targeting info faster so that I can put those AC/20 rounds into the weakest components.

My BJ-3, on the other hand, uses ML's and two PPC's. I run this one as a long range harasser and jump sniper, and therefore put on the Seismic, Shock Absorber and Advanced Zoom modules. This allows me to put the PPC's to use from long range, and rely mostly on JJ maneuverability to avoid enemy missiles. The Seismic then allows me to see enemies trying to sneak up and flank me.

Guess what they're going to be equipping now? Seismic and Radar Deprivation. Why? Well, for the BJ-1 it already has those two modules, and I wouldn't trade either of them for the Target Info Gathering, so that will be the module that gets dropped. On the BJ-1 though, without Advanced Zoom I would need to close in more and would thus have less time to use it's maneuverability and to get into cover and avoid missile fire, thus making Radar Deprivation more attractive. Without Shock Absorbers I'm not as maneuverable again, and it doesn't matter that I still have Advanced Zoom because I won't be as free to jump snipe from behind cover or move around terrain without risking damage. So again, Radar Deprivation will be the better option to protect me from LRM fire.

So we just went from two radically different module loadouts to the same module loadout by getting rid of a module slot. This is because certain modules are vastly better in combination with each other than alone. So more slots allows for more choice simply because you can take more combinations that enhance each other. We will always choose certain top tier modules like Seismic though because they're simply too good to ignore, which means that the fewer slot choices we have the more likely that they will solely end up being those top tier modules. So congratulations on making the one choice that actually lessens role warfare in your attempt to promote it.

[RetroActive]

Why not leave the number of mech module slots as they were before and ADD the weapon and consumable slots to all mechs? That still encourages people to use the useless weapon modules and spend cbills on the consumables. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

[Yokaiko]

RetroActive, on 31 July 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Why not leave the number of mech module slots as they were before and ADD the weapon and consumable slots to all mechs? That still encourages people to use the useless weapon modules and spend cbills on the consumables. Sounds like a win/win for everyone.

You can't make me use weapons mods, everything is too hot already.