576 replies to this topic

[Budor]

HellJumper, on 31 July 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

i already have clan mechs... timber and direwolf..i stopped after 3 rounds as it brings no fun... its was plain and simple hammering of IS mechs...

Dude those must have been bads or new players in trials or they were afk. Just browse the forums, everyone on here takes on timbers in locusts all day every day!

[Kilo 40]

Jett Hawking, on 31 July 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

tactics hardly even apply anymore. Even if I survive, I end up facing down at least an entire lance of clan mechs by myself.

If you're continuously facing down entire lances by yourself, it sounds like you tactics are the issue, not the mechs.

Edited by Kilo 40, 31 July 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[MischiefSC]

There are a lot of great things to say about Clan Mechs. I think they bring a *lot* to MW:O. I think some of the best design decisions in the history of MW:O were made regarding Clan weapons and mechs.

We have, however, created a half a year of disparity between haves and have-nots (or will-nots, more aptly). This is going to make the real fine-tuning of IS/Clan balance nearly impossible until about February, after they're all out for cbills for a while and the player base has them fully integrated.

This is, sadly, one of the worst decisions in MW:Os history. All this well deserved goodwill, burned.

PGI deserves to get paid for their work. Paid well even for good work. That's not unfair or unreasonable. Combining that with a F2P model and the atypical needs of this specific sort of game environment is a lot more complicated and prone to pitfalls as well as being far, far less forgiving of mistakes.

This release model was a bad mistake. In the same way that at this point there's no way CW is going to come out in a way that's going to make people happy (too much bad blood and frustration) there's going to be a pall cast over Clans for the rest of the games life. All the awesome stuff with Clan mechs will fade in peoples memories and perceptions and become 'normal'. That's going to happen about ~40-60 days from now. The frustration over this sort of thing (a sense of P2W) will linger for as long as people remember MW:O.

It's got nothing to do with fair or realistic or reasonable but human behavior. Currently there are some problems that are literally impossible to effectively fix for about 6 months - which is an eternity in a social game environment.

Meh. Unfortunate.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

I don't have any problems in my IS Mechs vs. Clan mech. I adapted my tactics, adapted my loadout and after that, I'm quite capable going 1 vs. 1 against a Clan machine.

Are the Clans still stronger? Yes. Do I have a problem with it? No. Its a challenge and I like that. Sometimes I'm getting shot into pieces by a Dire Wolf and on other drops I'm killing 2 Mad Cats and a Nova in my Shadowhawk. Give and take. My K/D in IS-Mechs is still very positive. The only downside I feel is to level unleveled IS-Mechs. I had quite some mechs in my hangar I did not touch and now with the Clan mechs at the horizont, I'm trying to level out the dust catcher. The difference in mech-specs for unleveled mechs vs. Clan is far greater than it was for unleveled IS vs. leveled IS. While I can quickly catch up and be done with it in a couple of rounds, new players might get scared away.

If I imagine having to try all that stuff in a Trial-Mech, then any new player would be knocked to the ground over and over again. This is pretty bad, as it scares away new players.

edit:
Other than that, here are 4 things for you to fix:
- Maps (invisible borders, boxes etc)
- A better system than Ghost Heat and manual hard-coded Quirks (There are a lot of valid suggestions in the "Suggestions subforums") to get a universal system mechanic and not a line of tinkerer.
- Improve the JJ mechanic (MW:LL - see suggestions-subforums and your own feedback topics)
- Make the module-system intelligent in a way that it really serves the role warfare and does not cripple it, like the new changes did. Step by step. What do you want, what do you need, how do you achieve this. Thats how you roll on designing that kind of stuff.

Edited by Shevchen, 31 July 2014 - 01:21 AM.

[peve]

IS vs Clan is great. The problem is that Clans push while IS covers. A change of tactics is in order.

I am not saying it isn't biased, I am just saying it can be fun and it can go either way, if IS pilots are good.

[worm4981]

Its not that easy. Say you have a team of terribad clan players and a veteran IS team, then you are right. IS pilots can win this by skill, not by mech performance.

Now take a realistic approach: To get clan/IS matches they liftet 3/3/3/3 and maybe even elo restrictions. I have seen a lot of trial mechs in these matches. Now we have a team of mostly veteran clan players with higher performing tech on one side and a team consisting of beginners and veterans alike with IS mechs on the other.

You say IS loses because they hide and do not push. Problem: clan weapons have a far greater range and DPS than IS weapons. You cannot push like in normal games as you wont even come in range before half your armor is gone as an IS pilot. Without 3/3/3/3 you could have 4 DWF and 4 TBR right in front of you. Calculate that gauss/ERPPC/ERLL damage and range and you see what I mean.

This is not so much of a problem when IS and clan mechs are mixed and distributed more or less equal. But it does make a hell of an impact when there is one team with nearly twice as much range and DPS than the other. You have to have a very big skill advantage or massive luck to win this. Especially on maps like alpine where it is difficult to get close without being CERLL or LRMed to death.

So: Yes, IS can win, but only if the pilots are way better than the other team. Mechs and equipment decide when both teams are equal is skill. And we saw how that went, didnt we?

[Lefteye Falconeer]

it needs to be 10 Clans vs 12 IS. And move from there.

Another very important thing is a freakin TOGGLEABLE AMS. Clans bring insane amounts of missiles and I hate that my 2 or 3 tons of missiles get depleted in 60 seconds mostly on scrap missiles that weren't going to hit anyone.

Let us toggle AMS, please. It's more important than you think.

[Falcrist]

I think the timeline should be moved from 3049 to 3058. The Is would get some nice weapon systems which can easily compete with clan tech. Snub nose ppc's, is er- medium lasers , mrm launcher, elrm etc pp. Rotary AC's would nice too if the timeline would be extended.

especially mrm launcher are a good tool to reduce the clan range advantage.

[Vassago Rain]

MischiefSC, on 31 July 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

There are a lot of great things to say about Clan Mechs. I think they bring a *lot* to MW:O. I think some of the best design decisions in the history of MW:O were made regarding Clan weapons and mechs. We have, however, created a half a year of disparity between haves and have-nots (or will-nots, more aptly). This is going to make the real fine-tuning of IS/Clan balance nearly impossible until about February, after they're all out for cbills for a while and the player base has them fully integrated. This is, sadly, one of the worst decisions in MW:Os history. All this well deserved goodwill, burned. PGI deserves to get paid for their work. Paid well even for good work. That's not unfair or unreasonable. Combining that with a F2P model and the atypical needs of this specific sort of game environment is a lot more complicated and prone to pitfalls as well as being far, far less forgiving of mistakes. This release model was a bad mistake. In the same way that at this point there's no way CW is going to come out in a way that's going to make people happy (too much bad blood and frustration) there's going to be a pall cast over Clans for the rest of the games life. All the awesome stuff with Clan mechs will fade in peoples memories and perceptions and become 'normal'. That's going to happen about ~40-60 days from now. The frustration over this sort of thing (a sense of P2W) will linger for as long as people remember MW:O. It's got nothing to do with fair or realistic or reasonable but human behavior. Currently there are some problems that are literally impossible to effectively fix for about 6 months - which is an eternity in a social game environment. Meh. Unfortunate.

What a shame. Such a rotten way to die.

[TheRedZealot]

Im a returning Founder (took a break around the time Pheonix was launched and came back about 3 days ago?) I can thoroughly say that I have not seen anything majorly worse than what was happening early on in the game dev.

Also I have paid for every major Mech Pack (cause I have a good job, Deal with it~) and I can say that in my terribad hands at least the Clan mechs have not performed any better than the IS mechs.

My Point is. Stop the hating, play the game cause Giant Robot lasers are fun Pew Pew~

P.S. I also mostly posted cause I wanted to see my Forum Badges

[GalaxyBluestar]

MischiefSC, on 31 July 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

russ and bryan taking a beloved franchise and deciding to chase the cash and forget their own talk ups and purpose of their own product. clans before CW before they were ready to build anything after not working on what they said they were making. new players forever beaten down and now too many paywalls. years of lies and incompetance will be remembered long after the fun of a stompy robot game.

Meh. Unfortunate.

FTFY

[wanderer]

I love how there's "OH, THE HORROR CLAN ROFLSTOMP ggAFF" going on in this thread.

If you're in a Clan 'Mech when they set it to Clan vs IS, you are shooting up Team Chock Fulla Noobs- it might as well be an artificial ELO bonus for your team simply because you can't get Trial newbies. Making balance statements based on what is a modified version of PUGstomping is....well, imbalanced.

[Flying Judgement]

Sug, on 30 July 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I am ready to fight the Clans with my IS brothers.

THIS a hundred times i wish it would happen already and i could go against only clans all the time.
apart from the one hit clan builds i can counter them ok in a normal not experimental build and i have 3 build absolutely wrecking clans.
its just when and when not to play defensive or rambo is more important
but if ur flank 2 or 3 and give a nice alpha in the back they still go down just as fast as the 6PPC stalker or an SRM cat

my only problem is "tank" builds not working any more so slow buletsponge mechs like the Orions and Atlases go down a lot faster i wish they get an armor buff

[Kitane]

It was a pretty poor evening to level my IS mechs, I was quite annoyed and bitter and said a few things in chat I later regretted. I wouldn't probably mind it that much if I was in unlocked mechs, but I was trying to get that 2x daily bonus on each BLR variant and the matchmaker kept throwing me into slaughter one round after another.

I've got two of required wins in IS vs IS and one against Clan, a very, very sweet victory, but rest of the evening simply sucked.

Skill level was one of the reasons, trial mechs were a real problem.

The second reason was the difference in aggressiveness, morale and initiative. PUG groups operate on unspoken group psychology, and when one side enters the match believing they have subpar weapons and mechs, while the other one believes they have superior weapons and mechs, it's a huge source of imbalance right there, even if both sides were perfectly balanced (which wasn't the case).

The third reason was simple: Clan mechs and their weapons are better. Not in every area, but the total package makes them superior choice, and if you put all of them on one side, those advantages will add up. IS can counter them with superior tactics, but that itself is a proof that mechs are not balanced.

I don't mind Clan mechs being somewhat better, but as long as they are hidden behind paywall, it will continue to harm the game.

[Viges]

Aresye, on 30 July 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

I've been playing MW games since 1996. I'm 27. I played competitively in MW3 and MW4. Most of my piloting skills today are the result of playing MW3 and MW4 online on a 56k dial-up, and yes, I will outperform Joe Pug over there with or without Clan mechs.

I'm better than noobs therefore clans are balanced.

Wtf is this logic, do you even try to be rational? Of cause good IS player will win against bad clanner, thats not how the balance works, jeez.

Sandpit, on 30 July 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

no, but it does mean I have the advantage over new players of knowing how things work like
heat
torso twisting
weapon loadouts in general
how to build a mech
the pros and cons of xl vs. std engines
how lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults perform and why lights (even though the cheapest unit) aren't the easiest unit to use
armor placement
ammo placement

No, it doesn't make me a better pilot, but it does give me a distinct advantage because of my experience and knowledge of Btech and mechwarrior in general

So true man, so true, and you need 20 years to learn all that... wait, but these days we have that magical thing called INTERNET, where you can find guides and info for all of that in 20 minutes like for every other game, more than that young players learn and adapt faster and dont have biases towards their "favorite" mechs. No advantages here for you, grandpas, only disadvantages.

Ah sorry you do have an advantage in explaining to the f2p players how awesome you are because you played mw for 20 years, raaaight.

Quote

they HAVE to have more new players. The only new players on teh clan side are ones that bought a clan mech. EVERY other single new player is on IS side. That's a horrible way to collect data and it's ruined and skewed from the get go

If only we could have some rating system that would match players based on their past ingame performance...


There is no logic, only the truth.

Edited by Viges, 31 July 2014 - 04:51 AM.

[Tharnes]

Clans are simply much more forgiving to play besides better performing.
Sure some diehard IS vets with 2 years in their meta-optimized heavy/assaults can take on a Clan heavy/assault and hope to win, but your average IS pilot just gets stomped really hard.

[Mavairo]

Using the solo que players for a gauge on how effective the IS or Clan Mechs are, is akin to using the Special Olympics as a gauge for the ultimate in human capability.

We're talking about a que, that hosts the largest population of people who are so horrible they regularly die to LRMS.

Edited by Mavairo, 31 July 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[Tharnes]

Mavairo, on 31 July 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Using the solo que players for a gauge on how effective the IS or Clan Mechs are, is akin to using the Special Olympics as a gauge for the ultimate in human capability.

Like it or not, pugs and solo que will make up for 99% of the playerbase. F2P games are full of "noobs", and have to be to exist.
Ignoring problems in pugs is like legging yourself big time.

[Asmudius Heng]

Not IS vs clans but all night the Madcats were out in force.

Those things would not be so scary if the CT was much bigger but they have the perfect alignment of great hitboxes, excellent speed and mobility, JJ options and can pack the best clan weapons.

Just faced a group with 3 of them running LRMs and Tag ... no matter how much ECM you have and AMS the sheer amount of them punches through everything ... even when getting charged down by the entire team who chewed through 3 mechs CTs first could not CT kill the MAdcats, the damasge is super spread.

The CT on the Madcat needs to be more like the catapult and less like the stalker IMO

That is the only mech of the lot of them that is well over the top - the rest are still extremely good and a tad better than IS mechs yes

[Piney II]

Mavairo, on 31 July 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Using the solo que players for a gauge on how effective the IS or Clan Mechs are, is akin to using the Special Olympics as a gauge for the ultimate in human capability.

We're talking about a que, that hosts the largest population of people who are so horrible they regularly die to LRMS.

Yeah, because ONLY the leets play in group queue...........