170 replies to this topic

[Hollow Earth]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 01 August 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

That may look too close to a Marauder that we'll never see the Rakshasa.

Timberwoves looks closer to Marauders then the Rakshasa. i doubt there will be any trouble since we have both TWoves and Catapults.

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Loving this Hussar design. Kinda looks like a construction vehicle.

[PANZERKAT]

Blitzkrieg is a cool mech. With the UAC 20 on top, it would be a GREAT hill popper like the Jager. The Hussar pic reminds me of it.

[mike29tw]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 August 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Not really a ton for me. I would not say no, but not get excited. It has the same base speed and armor profile of the Vulcan, but worse hardpoints, (more than likely) and the Vulcan could have an amazing profile in MWO.


which as an artsy guy, I love.

Clint...is kinda MEH, visually, though I use them heavily in MW:T.

And the Assassin is faster, jumpier and has missiles.

but I do want ALL the 40 tonners, eventually,


plus:












are all on my short list of designs I hope make the cut, for various reasons, though some being 3055 TRO designs, are a ways off.

Love your design Bishop. I hope MWO would use some of your mech design. Alex has done a great job re-imagining most mechs, but as more mechs are introduced, they tend to look all samey. Having different styles would be cool and would make the world feel more alive.

Before PGI came up with the Clan package, I was hoping they would bring in another designer to do the Clan mechs......to keep them different but still look modern......

[MischiefSC]

Gunslinger.
Hammerhands.
Annihilator.
Thunderhawk.

We need Energy and Ballistics loadouts, heavies and assaults, for the IS.

Anything else is just food for the Clan machine.

[MischiefSC]

Oh, and Bishop?

Dead sexy artwork man, due props.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

Gunslinger.
Hammerhands.
Annihilator.
Thunderhawk.

We need Energy and Ballistics loadouts, heavies and assaults, for the IS.

Anything else is just food for the Clan machine.

I understand adding some unique IS heavies/assaults (namely, dual large ballistics), and a part of me agrees, but another part of me is cautious about the kind of meta chaos those mechs could cause.

Hammerhands would be somewhat tame because it's a heavy, but it would be a beast for sure (not necessarily a bad thing). I wouldn't mind it.

Gunslinger would be roflcopter broken. It can carry dual Gauss and has a lot of energy hardpoints for backup...even if you don't use PPCs with it, you can still do 2 Gauss and have 6 Medium Lasers to tear people up who get close. It also gets jets, but those only really make you hover these days. Also, ECM.

Anni would just be slow as crap. Its max engine would be 220, using the current formula. It would go 39.2 kph after speed twerk...lol. It would make the Daishi look as agile as a ballerina.

Thunderhawk would be crazytown. The Goose limit of 2 sort of reduces its effectiveness, but it could still roflstomp people using a loadout like 3 AC/10 + whatever energy or stack a bunch of PPCs and [U]AC/5s. Or make it into a "ghetto Devastator" using 2 PPCs + 2 Goose.

Edited by FupDup, 01 August 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[anonymous161]

I rather see new clan mechs, we got plenty of sphere mechs.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 01 August 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

I understand adding some unique IS heavies/assaults (namely, dual large ballistics), and a part of me agrees, but another part of me is cautious about the kind of meta chaos those mechs could cause.

Hammerhands would be somewhat tame because it's a heavy, but it would be a beast for sure (not necessarily a bad thing). I wouldn't mind it.

Gunslinger would be roflcopter broken. It can carry dual Gauss and has a lot of energy hardpoints for backup...even if you don't use PPCs with it, you can still do 2 Gauss and have 6 Medium Lasers to tear people up who get close. It also gets jets, but those only really make you hover these days. Also, ECM.

Anni would just be slow as crap. Its max engine would be 220, using the current formula. It would go 39.2 kph after speed twerk...lol. It would make the Daishi look as agile as a ballerina.

Thunderhawk would be crazytown. The Goose limit of 2 sort of reduces its effectiveness, but it could still roflstomp people using a loadout like 3 AC/10 + whatever energy or stack a bunch of PPCs and [U]AC/5s. Or make it into a "ghetto Devastator" using 2 PPCs + 2 Goose.

Look at the weight on the Thunderhawk - also it comes stock with a 300XL and a narrow torso. Ballistics on each side and one arm, plus energy on the other?

2Goose, 2ERPPCs, plus some MLs - and you'll stuff a 325XL in there quite comfortably. Cooler and faster than a Dire Wolf it would be a rock solid answer to the Dire Whale.

You've hit my Gunslinger build on the nose. Like a Dual Gauss Battlemaster with the 6 MLs.

Hammerhands would be a 75 ton Jag with better hitboxes and SRMs, cuz EFF YOU that's why. Oh, and did you notice....

Jumpjets?

Yeah.

75 tons, arm mounted dakka AND lasers (for putting 1xGauss, 1 PPC on each arm) plus JJs.

That's for giving it to the Clanners in the pie-hole.

Or you could go with 2xAC20, 2xMLs.... plus XL300 and JJs. We're talking 75 tons, XL300, 1 JJ, full armor save a little shaved off the legs. End and...

41 tons of weapons and DHS.

Ballistic *and* energy hardpoints in the arms. Missile hardpoints on the side torsos.

Artwork on the hammerhands...


So, yeah.

that bad boy would teach a Timber Wolf what it's good for.

Personally I'd go with 2 LLs, 2 AC20s. Cuz BOOMHANDS, baby! If it's got enough SRM slots I'd go with 2MLs, 2AC20s, 4 tons of ammo, 3xSRM4 and 1 ton SRM ammo for that last little 'ain't you dead yet' WHUMP.

All with JJs.

[Zuesacoatl]

That is all

[Will9761]

If a Vindicator did make it in this game, I'd love to see Hero Mech based after Sho-Sha Varus just for nostalgic reasons.

[MischiefSC]

Zeus ma Goose! Ehrmagerd!

A Zeus would be alright, but what does he bring special? What's he going to do better than the Battlemaster, aside from not be wide as an Awesome?

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Look at the weight on the Thunderhawk - also it comes stock with a 300XL and a narrow torso. Ballistics on each side and one arm, plus energy on the other?

2Goose, 2ERPPCs, plus some MLs - and you'll stuff a 325XL in there quite comfortably. Cooler and faster than a Dire Wolf it would be a rock solid answer to the Dire Whale.

There's no question it would compete with the Whale...it's just a question of potentially swinging the pendulum 'too far' in the other direction. I want more viable mechs in MWO, but this seems to venture very close to the line of cheese mech vs legit.

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

You've hit my Gunslinger build on the nose. Like a Dual Gauss Battlemaster with the 6 MLs.

I dorked around in Smurfys a little bit, experimenting on a Misery and pretending that 7 slots and 15 tons were occupied by an invisible Goose Rifle. Turns out the 6ML build could only get in around 12 DHS, which would run haaawt...but at least it's got Goose to fire in the meantime. Or if you're a troll you could use 6 Small Wub Lasers for better heat efficiency (at the cost of horribad range :\ ). Or maybe use some AC/10, with w/e energy you feel like.

Like the Thawk above, I'm just slightly paranoid that the Funslinger might be a little too close to the "cheese or not" line.

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Hammerhands would be a 75 ton Jag with better hitboxes and SRMs, cuz EFF YOU that's why. Oh, and did you notice....

Jumpjets?

Yeah.

75 tons, arm mounted dakka AND lasers (for putting 1xGauss, 1 PPC on each arm) plus JJs.

That's for giving it to the Clanners in the pie-hole.

Or you could go with 2xAC20, 2xMLs.... plus XL300 and JJs. We're talking 75 tons, XL300, 1 JJ, full armor save a little shaved off the legs. End and...

41 tons of weapons and DHS.

Ballistic *and* energy hardpoints in the arms. Missile hardpoints on the side torsos.

Artwork on the hammerhands...
-snip-

So, yeah.

that bad boy would teach a Timber Wolf what it's good for.

Personally I'd go with 2 LLs, 2 AC20s. Cuz BOOMHANDS, baby! If it's got enough SRM slots I'd go with 2MLs, 2AC20s, 4 tons of ammo, 3xSRM4 and 1 ton SRM ammo for that last little 'ain't you dead yet' WHUMP.

All with JJs.

The Hammertime has lower arm actuators, so you can't really do AC/40 on it (or Goose + PPC in each arm). Dual AC/10 + whatever energy or 2 UAC/5 + 2 [ER]LL would still be nice though. It would be a beast, but I think this one just barely avoids being a "cheese" mech (while still being really really good).

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Zeus ma Goose! Ehrmagerd!

A Zeus would be alright, but what does he bring special? What's he going to do better than the Battlemaster, aside from not be wide as an Awesome?

It has a relatively balanced hardpoint layout, sort of like Victors but with more missile tubes (helps get the SRMs out faster, or can boat Lurms if you want to troll). Since it's not the Victor, it might be blessed with having the normal agility of an 80 tonner rather than being an "80 ton Atlas" like the Victor is right now...I'd drive it for that alone. I miss my 2 LL + 2 UAC/5 Victor.

Edited by FupDup, 01 August 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Every clan mech is a Cheese mech though now Fup. The point is to remove the cheese via balancing weapons, not by gimping the mechs that can be taken. What would make any of those builds any less cheese than anything in the Clan loadout?

Seriously, where's the difference? 3xAC5, 2xPPC Banshee 3E is *tame* compared to most of the field now.

Need to move on from that. Focus on what is fun to PLAY, not what ZOMG might actually not suck, which is often mistaken for OP.

A 75 ton IS mech that could load most of what a Jag can load would still have a hard time with a Timber Wolf.

The point is to bring everything else UP to the TW, not nerf-hammer it down to Quickdraw levels.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Every clan mech is a Cheese mech though now Fup.

Adder? Kit Fox? Summoner? Warhawk? Nova? Them too?

I can understand classifying the Timber and Stormcrow as "cheese" because they're awesomesauce beastmode, but the others have more tangible weaknesses. Especially the Adder, which lives up to its nickname "Badder" (yes you can get good scores with it, I did most of the time, but it's still worse than its Jenner/Firestarter/ECM Raven overlords). The Dire Whale has a few builds that qualify, but the mech as a whole isn't that OP because it's usually hard to bring all that dakka to bear.

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

The point is to remove the cheese via balancing weapons, not by gimping the mechs that can be taken. What would make any of those builds any less cheese than anything in the Clan loadout?

Seriously, where's the difference? 3xAC5, 2xPPC Banshee 3E is *tame* compared to most of the field now.

Need to move on from that. Focus on what is fun to PLAY, not what ZOMG might actually not suck, which is often mistaken for OP.

A 75 ton IS mech that could load most of what a Jag can load would still have a hard time with a Timber Wolf.

The point is to bring everything else UP to the TW, not nerf-hammer it down to Quickdraw levels.

Like I hinted at earlier, I'm normally the guy who asking for buffs to various guns and mechs rather than nerfing (you took mah job!). However, there is a difference between nerfing good mechs to the crap level of Trebuchets and Lolcusts versus adding OMGWTFBBQ powerful mechs like the Devastator (which you didn't directly ask for, but you can kinda mimic it with the Thawk anyways).

Personally, for the IS in particular (ignoring Clans for now), I think the "baseline" chassis might look something along these lines:

Lights: Jenner, Firestarter, maybe Raven 3L

Mediums: Shadow Hawk, Griffin

Heavies: Cataphract, Jager

Assaults: Uh...I guess Victors (minus the Dragon Slayer), Stalkers, maybe Banshees, maybe Atlas DDC, definitely not Highlanders because their jets got giganerfed


Being a little bit above said "baseline" mechs might be okay on occasion, but at the same time we might not want to go way far in the opposite direction ("balancing act" of sorts). I think I'd be mostly okay with the Hammertime, but the others are setting off my paranoia detector...

Edited by FupDup, 01 August 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[IceCase88]

Kiiyor, on 30 July 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Pfft. You didn't include the rest of that drawing.

In the next panel of concept art, you missed the part where the KING CRAB crushes the puny Vindicator underfoot, Monty Python style, then fires at an opportunistic DireWolf that was closing in on the fresh kill, and snorts contentedly as the DireWolf yelps and scampers away, tail between it's legs. The Crab then makes crab noises of contentment as a bevy of scantily clad Highlanders approaches and begin cleaning it's chitin while it settles down to it's meal, because really, IT'S GOOD TO BE THE KING.

You forgot the obligatory....

[Hans Von Lohman]

I'm pretty sure that the Vindicator is going to be the next medium mech because it is such an Iconic House Liao mech. The Cappellans made it their main mech, even stating in the lore that in the 3rd succession war it was the biggest mech they could still build. At least until they invented the franken-mech using spare parts factories called the Cataphract...and then lost the factory to the Federated Suns in the 3039 war.

But the other thing is there are only two 45 ton mechs that could be considered reasonably for MWO, and that is the Vindicator and the Wyvern, but missile and energy weapons, and jump jets, with somewhat slow speed for a medium mech.

So, Vindicator wins.

As for 40 ton mechs, I want the Assassin, or at least one of the mechs the mechs that can at least go 90KPH, jumps, and doesn't rely on ballistic weapons like a solitary AC-2 or AC-5. I prefer energy weapons on smaller mechs, so that really narrows it down.

[MischiefSC]

Here's the thing on cheese though -

Kitfox, Adder, War Hawk....

They're still better than the 'average' IS mech in their weightclass 1 on 1. Almost universally. They can all load missiles or energy or energy +ballistics.

Cheese doesn't mean what it used to. Just flat out doesn't. With the incoming nerf of Gauss + PPCs (which needs nerfed and nerfed hard) we're down to a shockingly level balance of weapons. That's awesome.

The issues the IS suffers from is tied to the PPFLD meta, which from the look and out of things is on its way out. It's far more of a risk to IS XLs than any Clan build. As that goes the need to keep IS mechs from loading ballistics + energy declines.

This broadens the field for IS mechs to field things like the Thunder Hawk, Gunslinger and Shootist.

Which they should. IS mechs should be *fun*. Exciting, enjoyable to play - like Clan mechs. The fundamental issue is that most are not. Most are crap and involve grinding crap coated crap with crap filling just to get the 1 or maybe 2 decent loadouts that 1 variant can carry.

Screw that. Give the IS fun mechs.

[Spheroid]

Why does this thread presume we are even getting a new chassis in August? What evidence exists?

[Kiiyor]

IceCase88, on 01 August 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

You forgot the obligatory....

Oh god, I have to watch that movie right now.

[MischiefSC]

Oh, and across the game, the new baseline chassis needs to be the TW.

I'm serious - it's fun to play and people like it. It doesn't have a 'well it sucks at X'. Why should it?

This idea that somehow it's good and noble for 2 out of 3 IS mech chassis to be intentionally gimped trash that you're forced to slog through is bad. It's a bad concept and bad design and the idea needs burned with fusion fire.

This is a game. People pay more money to have fun than they pay to not have fun. That's a big part of why the sale of Clan mechs took OFF after the PTS - people saw that they were going to be *fun*. So they opened their wallets.

I just bought a TDK. I've never piloted a Commando before but everyone I spoke to about it said the chassis was *fun*. So I got one. I haven't picked up a YLW because, well, Hunchie/Shawk if I want an AC medium. The days of the Cent hitbox rockstardom is gone.