Which they should. IS mechs should be *fun*. Exciting, enjoyable to play - like Clan mechs. The fundamental issue is that most are not. Most are crap and involve grinding crap coated crap with crap filling just to get the 1 or maybe 2 decent loadouts that 1 variant can carry.
Screw that. Give the IS fun mechs.
Part of this isn't necessarily due to IS mechs being crap, the craptastic grind existed looooooooooong before our Clan overlords came about, they just highlighted how much not fun we were having. It all boils down to flexibility, which the omnipods give in spades compared to the IS where most of variants a +/- one hardpoint for another and that's it. If you wanted, you could run the same config on pretty much all 3 omni variants if you wanted, and that's what people want and should've had a long time ago.
Give the IS the ability to grind for a chassis rather than per variant and forcing us to have not fun. Also, I want an Assassin so I can hover around and pretend Im helping.
They're still better than the 'average' IS mech in their weightclass 1 on 1. Almost universally. They can all load missiles or energy or energy +ballistics.
Cheese doesn't mean what it used to. Just flat out doesn't. With the incoming nerf of Gauss + PPCs (which needs nerfed and nerfed hard) we're down to a shockingly level balance of weapons. That's awesome.
The issues the IS suffers from is tied to the PPFLD meta, which from the look and out of things is on its way out. It's far more of a risk to IS XLs than any Clan build. As that goes the need to keep IS mechs from loading ballistics + energy declines.
This broadens the field for IS mechs to field things like the Thunder Hawk, Gunslinger and Shootist.
Which they should. IS mechs should be *fun*. Exciting, enjoyable to play - like Clan mechs. The fundamental issue is that most are not. Most are crap and involve grinding crap coated crap with crap filling just to get the 1 or maybe 2 decent loadouts that 1 variant can carry.
Screw that. Give the IS fun mechs.
The thing with "average" IS mechs is that most of them are just poop. For the most part, each weight class has 2 or maybe 3 "good" chassis within it (assault class might have a little more wiggle room). The bar wasn't set very high to begin with, so the Thor outclassing poop mechs like the Quickdraw or the Badder outclassing Lolcusts isn't really a surprise.
Whatever the end point may be, I do certainly want to see the current crap IS chassis/variants given a helping hand to be much closer in performance to the top IS mechs in each class. Improving existing chassis would "effectively" add more chassis to the game because then people might use the damn mechs. :\
WTB torso twist radius increase and armor quirks for the Thunderbolt...
The thing with "average" IS mechs is that most of them are just poop. For the most part, each weight class has 2 or maybe 3 "good" chassis within it (assault class might have a little more wiggle room). The bar wasn't set very high to begin with, so the Thor outclassing poop mechs like the Quickdraw or the Badder outclassing Lolcusts isn't really a surprise.
Whatever the end point may be, I do certainly want to see the current crap IS chassis/variants given a helping hand to be much closer in performance to the top IS mechs in each class. Improving existing chassis would "effectively" add more chassis to the game because then people might use the damn mechs. :\
WTB torso twist radius increase and armor quirks for the Thunderbolt...
The issue is that 1 or 2 hardpoint differences don't mean much. Nor do a couple of points of armor on the left arm of the Centurion. 10 points? Sure - that'd eat an extra LL hit. You might, in the right context, even notice or care.
Hitboxes need fixed. I love most the artwork on mechs in MW:O. Alex does incredible work. The Awesome, BM, QD, they all need slimmed down though. Without question and absolutely. Any excuse for not doing so is just BS. Dragon needs his CT armor buffed or some such.
The IS mechs need aggressive quirking and it needs to be significantly different across variants - then the need to grind something you hate to play something you enjoy changes and you can play different variants of your favorite mech because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to.
I touched on this before in another thread -
Motivate me to spend time/money because it's fun and I feel like I'm being rewarded with things I enjoy.
Do not motivate me by paying or doing extra to avoid penalties (like long waits or huge grinds) or by having to do something that isn't fun in order to get to something that is.
This is a fundamental change between IS and Clan mechs. Clan mechs are fun, start to finish. IS mechs require a lot of not-fun to get to any hopeful fun - which may or may not be fun, you won't know until you get there.
I hate Clans in lore. Sociopathic incestuous violence-obsessed slavers, carrying the legacy of a coward and a traitor for which they are painfully overcompensating. Add to that stupidly OP equipment and plot-armor and bad plot-devices to make the goodguys win anyway....
yet I have absolutely no interest in picking up another IS mech. None. At all. It will be significantly less enjoyable than another Clan mech to get, unlock, equip, pilot and use.
That, gentlemen, is a bigger 'game balance' issue than any weapon disparity. Clan mechs are more fun, more enjoyable to play. Clan weapons being DPS based are more fun and more enjoyable to play with and against. THAT is what makes them superior, far more than any range or damage bonus.
For the love of god, this time can we not 'nerf fun' as the solution?
As I have stated previously, no new IS mechs will be released until after ALL clan mechs are available for C-Bills. I don't know why you people keep chattering like this is actually going to happen. They dropped the Zeus BEFORE the clan mechs came out and they dropped the Mauler the month the clan mechs were released.
Don't tell me they're coming out with a new mech cause they aren't.
The issue is that 1 or 2 hardpoint differences don't mean much. Nor do a couple of points of armor on the left arm of the Centurion. 10 points? Sure - that'd eat an extra LL hit. You might, in the right context, even notice or care.
Hitboxes need fixed. I love most the artwork on mechs in MW:O. Alex does incredible work. The Awesome, BM, QD, they all need slimmed down though. Without question and absolutely. Any excuse for not doing so is just BS. Dragon needs his CT armor buffed or some such.
The IS mechs need aggressive quirking and it needs to be significantly different across variants - then the need to grind something you hate to play something you enjoy changes and you can play different variants of your favorite mech because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to.
Speaking of hitboxes, Piggy's hitbox pass ended kind of prematurely and didn't even fix some of the big issues (i.e. Catapult is still a walking CT even after its pass). That initiative needs to get restarted.
For quirking it depends on the individual mech in question. I'd look at the mech's fluff/flavor text "role" and try to base the quirks off of that (i.e. Thunderbolts are supposed to be REALLY tough, so somehow give them abnormal durability for a 65 ton mech).
In an ideal world Piggy would also FINALLY rescale the mechs that need it...namely mediums, which have no business being near or at the size of heavy mechs. Some heavies are also a little too big (*cough cough Quickdraw cough cough*).
MischiefSC, on 02 August 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:
I hate Clans in lore. Sociopathic incestuous violence-obsessed slavers, carrying the legacy of a coward and a traitor for which they are painfully overcompensating. Add to that stupidly OP equipment and plot-armor and bad plot-devices to make the goodguys win anyway....
I believe the proper way to describe the Clans in lore is "Communist Inbred Space Furries."
MischiefSC, on 02 August 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:
I touched on this before in another thread -
Motivate me to spend time/money because it's fun and I feel like I'm being rewarded with things I enjoy.
Do not motivate me by paying or doing extra to avoid penalties (like long waits or huge grinds) or by having to do something that isn't fun in order to get to something that is.
This is a fundamental change between IS and Clan mechs. Clan mechs are fun, start to finish. IS mechs require a lot of not-fun to get to any hopeful fun - which may or may not be fun, you won't know until you get there.
-snipped out Clan lore part above-
...yet I have absolutely no interest in picking up another IS mech. None. At all. It will be significantly less enjoyable than another Clan mech to get, unlock, equip, pilot and use.
That, gentlemen, is a bigger 'game balance' issue than any weapon disparity. Clan mechs are more fun, more enjoyable to play. Clan weapons being DPS based are more fun and more enjoyable to play with and against. THAT is what makes them superior, far more than any range or damage bonus.
For the love of god, this time can we not 'nerf fun' as the solution?
BUFF FUN.
In terms of performance, I don't think the best IS mechs are actually that far away from the effectiveness of the Clan robots. For lights in particular, many (including myself) would even rate the Clans lights as being lesser than their 35 ton IS NASCAR overlords.
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For mediums, I think one of the key issues is jumpjets currently sucking. Coincidentally, that's currently the main drawback of the Stormcrow. If jets weren't boring hovermode like MW4 and Mechassault, the ability to use jets on the Griffin and Shadow Hawk (best IS mediums) would help close the disparity between them and the Ryoken. MW:LL had the right idea:
For non-jumping IS mediums...they generally aren't that good, so they fall into the "quirk/hitbox buff" bin.
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For lights, the biggest issue is that mechs under 30-35 tons are simply less optimally constructed than other lights. Tabletop's mech building system basically gives the bigger lights the same speed as the smaller ones, while packing more armor and firepower. And to make it even worse, the rule that sub-250 engines need to place some sinks externally means that 20-25 ton lights, as well as slower 30-35 tonners, are "taxed" of critical slots. This thereby makes their design inherently less efficient (in terms of critical slots) than a fast light which doesn't need to slot any of its base 10 sinks on the outside.
So, part of my fix for lights would be to make the first 10 engine sinks always be inside the engine. Note that engine weights would need to be increased to accommodate those sinks (same tonnage at the end of the day, though). This would help smaller lights, slower lights, and even Blackjacks have all of the critical slots they "deserve" rather than being punished for not being fast/big enough. This wouldn't be a gamechanger by itself, but it would be nice. And then add specific quirks/hitbox changes as needed from there.
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Heavies and assaults aren't quite as easy for me to break down into why certain chassis are better or not (excluding obvious crap mechs like Awesomes and Dragons). I won't get into them right now other than saying that the poop ones (like the Buttmaster and Quickdie) could use some lovin' in various ways.
Because it makes absolute zero sense as to why they would give it ECM they will indeed give it ECM just for ECM's sake.
did you also know that the Griffon also gets ECM as well? The GRF-2N, built around the star league era so there isn't any "it doesn't exist yet" excuse for it there.
did you also know that the Griffon also gets ECM as well? The GRF-2N, built around the star league era so there isn't any "it doesn't exist yet" excuse for it there.
In an ideal world Piggy would also FINALLY rescale the mechs that need it...namely mediums, which have no business being near or at the size of heavy mechs. Some heavies are also a little too big (*cough cough Quickdraw cough cough*).
There is one other mech that desperately needs to be rescaled, and it used to be king of the assaults. His name is the battle penis......errrrr Stalker. I mean the Cataphract is bigger than the Stalker and that to me is a big issue especially given the barn door status of the rest of the IS assaults.
LocationKitzingen, Bolan Province, Protectorate of Donegal, Lyran Commonwealth
Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:12 AM
I doubt there will be a new chassis.
They only said so far that there will be new art.
There will probably be 1 or 2 heroes like the Spider but nothing more.
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MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:
