118 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Just wanted to give a Timber Wolf P2W update

Timber Wolf - Prime

1.89 K/D
1.125 kills per match
428 average damage per match

Battlemaster BLG-1G (stats only since clan release)

3.29 K/D
1.75 kills per match
431 average damage per match.

That's right. An IS mech totally dominating the almighty Timber Wolf and the gap between the two is still widening.

Also I pointed this out before. The damage output between the two is roughly the same yet the Battlemaster is darn near killing 2 mechs for every 1 mech the Timber Wolf manages to kill. Seeing this, it is pretty obvious that the longer burn duration on beams and spread damage of Clan ACs makes them significantly less effective at actually killing an enemy mech.

Also, yes I am comparing an 85 ton IS mech to a 75 ton mech Clan mech but supposedly the Timber Wolf is overpowered and has been described as having the speed of a medium with the armor and firepower of an Assault. Therefore since it is so overpowered, it should easily be able to compete with an IS mech a mere 10 tons heavier, which ironicaly it isn't.

Considering its performance is failing miserably to keep up with the Battlemaster, an IS mech a mere 10 tons heavier, then perhaps it is, I don't know, performing about like a 75 ton mech of ANY faction ought to.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 01 August 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[Mechteric]

It should be pretty much common knowledge by now, but good luck convincing people who aren't already in the know. Pretty much will just have to wait until the end of the year when its available for CBills before people will move onto saying something else is P2W. (Crosses fingers for King Crab!)

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 01 August 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Just wanted to give a Timber Wolf P2W update Timber Wolf - Prime 1.89 K/D 1.125 kills per match 428 average damage per match Battlemaster BLG-1G (stats only since clan release) 3.29 K/D 1.75 kills per match 431 average damage per match. That's right. An IS mech totally dominating the almighty Timber Wolf and the gap between the two is still widening. Also I pointed this out before. The damage output between the two is roughly the same yet the Battlemaster is darn near killing 2 mechs for every 1 mech the Timber Wolf manages to kill. Seeing this, it is pretty obvious that the longer burn duration on beams and spread damage of Clan ACs makes them significantly less effective at actually killing an enemy mech. Also, yes I am comparing an 85 ton IS mech to a 75 ton mech Clan mech but supposedly the Timber Wolf is overpowered and has been described as having the speed of a medium with the armor and firepower of an Assault. Therefore since it is so overpowered, it should easily be able to compete with an IS mech a mere 10 tons heavier, which ironicaly it isn't. Considering its performance is failing miserably to keep up with the Battlemaster, an IS mech a mere 10 tons heavier, then perhaps it is, I don't know, performing about like a 75 ton mech of ANY faction ought to.

My Catapult A1 and HGN-733 has way more KDR than my Dragon Slayer--yet everyone know DS is better mech than A1. Your story does not mean much, especially in pugs or you have been clubbing seals with 12 mans. What only matters is whether people are preferring T-Wolves or BLR-1G in high level play. Cause they know which is overpowered and use it constantly.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 August 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Tyman4]

Since this is a P2W thread, I'm more interested in the Win loss ratio not the K/D. Not that K/D is unimportant, just not necessarily linked to wins.

But it is revealing that the IS mechs can get kills with much less damage done, in which case the 1300+ club of direwolfs should probably reconsider actual effectiveness (kills per ton of ammo?)

Tyman

Edit: was 1 kill from my ace of spade yesterday and still didn't break 1000 damage in DW. I've done it in the ilya before reset but with clan mechs out, I'm not sure that is still really possible.

Edited by Tyman4, 01 August 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Timberwolves are also a greater perceived threat. When a team sees one they get 'Atlas syndrome' and everyone tries to kill it immediately.

[Rhaythe]

Timerwolves are everywhere. The Heavy queue is constantly chock-full of them at around 40% of total mechs being used. Of course it's going to receive the most venom. It's the most visible. You can't go a match without at least 4 or 5 of them deployed.

That said, good god do I suck with them. Give me the stormcrow instead any day.

[Bhael Fire]

CapperDeluxe, on 01 August 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

It should be pretty much common knowledge by now, but good luck convincing people who aren't already in the know. Pretty much will just have to wait until the end of the year when its available for CBills before people will move onto saying something else is P2W. (Crosses fingers for King Crab!)

Yep. It's basically a case of "Waaaaaaa....you have a new shiny that I can't have for free! Waaaaaa. It's P2W...having shiny things is winning. Waaaaaaa."

[MadPanda]

Doesnt this just prove that you are a terrible timberwolf pilot? You may run bad builds and just play poorly. Since you seem to have a bias towards the timberwolf already, I wouldn't be surprise if you went on very risky suicidal movements when playing the timberwolf and often getting yourself killed in bad positions. Then you go "oh look, my timberwolf stats are crap, its not OP". Well, I guess that settles it, timberwolf not OP....

[meteorol]

My TW has a K/D of 4.18; 573 avrg damage per match (almost exclusively solo pugging), while my IS mechs have K/Ds between 2.82 and 3.54.

What does this proof? Well, nothing. Exactly like your comparison. Individual stats don't reflect how good a mech is.
YOUR TW doesn't compete with YOUR BM. This could mean anything between you are an above average BM pilot or a below average TW pilot. It could also mean that the TW is indeed not overpowered. It could also mean that it is overpowered and you are just terrible with it.

My TW eats my VTR, HGN, DDC, Ilya and Jager alive (considering stats). Still, i can't draw any inferences from this about the actual strenght of the TW.

[Angel of Annihilation]

First, for the person who asked about win rate.

Battlemaster - 1.67 W/L Ratio
Timberwolf - 1.19 W/L Ratio

So even in the W/L Ratios, I am seeing the Battlemaster outperforming the Timber Wolf by a significant margin. However, I don't view win rate as an accurate gauge of performance because winning or losing depends entirely too much on the 23 other players also playing.

Also all I do is Solo PUG.

Now, let’s take a look why the Battlemaster outperforms the Timber Wolf. Honestly it is a very simple reason but let’s look at them in detail.

My Timber Wolf – Prime mounts 2 C-ER PPCs and 4 C-ER MLs plus a boat load of DHS to cool all these energy weapons. It does not mount JJs.

My Battlemaster – 1G mounts 1 Standard PPC, 1 AC/10 and 6 MLs a 350XL engine and again all the DHS I can mount to keep those energy weapons cool.

Now let’s analyze.

Armor-wise, my Battlemaster has a slight edge with about 10 extra armor on the CT and 4-5 extra on the side torsos. Firepower however goes to the Timber Wolf with just a slight edge (8 more damage on alpha). Timber Wolf also has a major range advantage with its C-ER PPCs giving at least 270m more range than either the PPC or the AC/10 mounted on the Battlemaster and the C-ER ML giving it 180m more range than the MLs mounted on the Battlemaster. Also The Timber Wolf has roughly a 15 kph speed advantage.

Now on paper it becomes pretty obvious that the Timber Wolf is a superior mech. I has virtually the same armor, has more alpha, longer range on all its weapons and is faster. However in practice the Battlemaster is not only out performing it, but actually dominating the Timber Wolf.

That being the case, you have to ask, “How can this be?!” Well as I mention, it is simple. The answer is two things.
One, the Battlemaster has superior shape and hitboxes with the ability to torso twist to protect and spread damage. The Timber Wolf on the other hand, cannot twist and effectively protect its CT and even if it does twist its arms provide no protection.

The second is that a range advantage can be easily negated and once the Battlemaster gets into effective range of its weapons, the fast rates of fire and shorter beam durations gives the Battlemaster a pretty huge advantage.

In conclusion, as I mentioned in my original post, I am comparing at 75 ton Clan mech to a 85 ton IS mech but the reason I am comparing the two is because of their similar weapons loadout, armor and and somewhat similar speed. Also the claim is that the Timber Wolf is P2W because it is grossly overpowered. That being the case, it should handily outperform a mech with similar weapons loadout, armor, slower speed and a worse movement penalty even if it is 10 tons lighter. If it can’t even come close, then I am not sure how one can conclude it is overpowered or pay-to-win which is the underlying point of my post.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 01 August 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[oldradagast]

Personal stats don't tell the whole story.

At top levels of play, which is more likely to be seen? A Battlemaster or a Timberwolf? I think we all know the answer to that, and it's not "Battlemaster."

Similarly, I have a higher kill to death ratio in my Awesome 8T (1.38) than in any of my Cataphracts (both at about 0.75), yet nobody with a straight face is going to say the Awesome is better than the Cataphract. For whatever reason, my Awesome has been performing well since the stat wipe, and my Catapracts feel badly out of place these days... but that's just me, and I'm sure the average person would do far better in a Cataphract than an Awesome any day of the week.

Different mechs work for different folks, luck factors in, and then there's hits to stats based on experimenting with new load-outs or trying to level a mech up. I assume your Battlemaster was fully leveled by the time you bought your Timberwolf, right? That makes a difference. Compare stats after they are both fully leveled and see what happens.

Edited by oldradagast, 01 August 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Out of curiosity, are we saying "ALL" Timberwolves are OP/P2W/Whatever, or just the Dual-PPC/Gauss metapuppies?

[Monkey Lover]

try a heavy to heavy . My dire has the same kill ratio as your battlemaster.

[Torgun]

I think someone is a pretty bad TW pilot, or at least needs way more practice.

Edited by Torgun, 01 August 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[Votanin FleshRender]

For what it's worth from a very mediocre player...

Ditto as the OP. My stats on the IS mechs that I've purchased since I got my clan mechs are better (not lots better, but not insignificantly better) than my clan mechs. The only exception is my Warhawk A, which while having a much lower KDR than I average with my other mechs, has a 2.0 w/l... much higher than almost any other mech I have. Go figure.

[Mad Strike]

P2W is an exclusive feature

Early access is not , specially when you'll get it for free depending on the already published schedule.
Which ends the topic in a complete and total fail wasting your time for nothing but in a "i want my cake and i want it now!!!! T_T" look.

Just go for the side torsos ,back armor (18) and nothing more. If you have mechs with torso mounted weapons then try to focus most of your damage on them , if a TW is near , surprise him by throwing yourself against him since that will completely deny them of mobility plus his arms are so stretch from the main body that you'll get only a fracture of their damage potential in different points ....especially if he gets desperate (they know they are in danger) finally fire all those torso weapons on his face. After that the only thing he'll focus is on get his ass out of there , another focused fire on his back CT and done. My own experience dealing with them and how i mostly die when using my TW.

Edited by strikebrch, 01 August 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Torgun]

strikebrch, on 01 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

P2W is an exclusive feature

Early access is not specially when you'll get it for free depending on the already published schedule.

Which ends the topic in a complete and total fail wasting your time for nothing but in a "i want my cake and i want it now!!!! T_T" look.

What happens when the TW is finally released for CBills but nerfed shortly after, wouldn't that mean something of P2W? Because it's gonna happen, not a single doubt about it.

Edited by Torgun, 01 August 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

This may be, objectively speaking, the worst Clan P2W thread I've seen so far. And I'll tell you why.

You may think that providing some sort of "evidence" makes your argument stronger than people who just say "I've been playing against Timber wolves for 3 weeks now, and they seem to be OP". But those people are actually basing their opinion on the average performance of Timber wolves played by different people, in many different matches. Or maybe just the top players in every match, disregarding the people who can't play regardless what mech they're in. Whether their memory or perception is reliable is a valid concern, but at least they have an idea of a useful perspective.

All this proves is that you haven't done well with the Timber wolf, with the builds you've been using. That's.... not very helpful at all.

In 75 matches of playing the Cicada 2A, I have a KDR of 2.4 and W/L of 0.88. In 81 matches of playing the Shadowhawk 2H, I have a KDR of 1.02 and a W/L of 0.84. Ipso facto the Cicada is a much better medium mech than the Shadowhawk. So why do people keep talking about the Shadowhawk meta, and not the awesome deadly Cicada?

Because science and statistics. If we want to look at some numbers constructively, we need a representative sample. You're not one, and neither am I. Which is why this thread is bad and you should feel bad.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 01 August 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[KingCobra]

Until PGI fixes all the =(IS) mechs to compete with Clan Mechs the game is still very unbalanced in favor of Clan mechs .If you want to call it P2WIN is up to you or not P2WIN it does not matter the fact remains Clan Mechs 1v1 or 2-6 on any team pug or private tip the balance of game play with unskilled or skilled pilots.

[Rhaythe]

S'funny. When I get killed in my Timberwolf after doing a mere 60 points of damage, nobody accuses me of being Pay-to-Win. And that happens a lot. I suck with the Timberwolf.

(Relativity. It's everything.)