134 replies to this topic

[Kudzu]

The further away you move away from the IP the more you need to not use it at all and design your own.

[Mchawkeye]

Maybe you could choose which way to topple, assuming your leg isn't ripped on by a heavy round...that way you could choose to lean against a tall building, say, in the urban maps. you could remain looking cool. Just leaning there, maybe flicking a coin...

Or a lampost, maybe whip out a mech sized ukulele and start covering some classic George Formby tunes. Casual like.

Seriously though, a leg off shouldn't spell doom. Certainly allwong some kind of crawl, or at least a small amount of continuing fire. Maybe if the pilot is upgraded suitably, he can hop along...

Edited by Mchawkeye, 20 November 2011 - 11:03 AM.

[knight 6]

If you topple, do us a favour and eject into a building? It would be good for a laugh.

[Melissia]

feor, on 20 November 2011 - 07:42 AM, said:

when we can move beyond them into a realm of greater realism

Why, in the name of the Immortal God-Emperor of Mankind, would I want to do that?

Realism sucks, it's a boring ,generic, gray and brown mess.

[That Guy]

Quote

Realism sucks, it's a boring ,generic, gray and brown mess.

you have never played a realistic game then, have you?

Legging is a severe tactical problem (a problem that you the player has to deal with), but it should not be an automatic kill. the game should not just say "oh your leg is gone, you're dead, thanks for playing, even though all your weapons are still fully functional, chump"

Edited by that guy, 20 November 2011 - 01:30 PM.

[Ullr]

I am with those who say that there should be an amount of damage a leg can take before it is blow off. I played MW2 so know that just because a leg was blow off didn't mean the mech fell over. Now they should be able to fall over. If I shoot a massive cannon( or two) in the face of a 50 ton or less mech, if it isn't destroyed, there should be a chance that it falls over. It could also happen based on terrain/speed) I am kind of thinking "steel battalion" here. There ould have to be a way to stand up or if your mech was unable to stand do to missing legs, you would prop your self, maybe even be allowed to get your self leaning on a rock or something for even better firing. But it shouldn't be an auto death situation.

[Mattiator]

If there IS a single-leg damage mechanic that isn't an instant-kill (which there shouldn't be to prevent the game from turning into a leg-shooting festival), then there needs to be the option to eject at will. I can see players shooting someone's leg off, and then leaving them there, still alive but immobile, for the rest of the match.

How I'd answer the issue is thus: At high levels of damage, the 'Mech's leg has various mechanical issues, causing it to slow to a crawl above that seen in MW4, but still rather slow. If the other leg reached the same level of damage, the Mech would be destroyed due to not being able to support it's weight and essentially collapsing. If one of the 'Mech's legs is destroyed, the 'Mech would still be standing on one leg, but getting knocked over would result in death. Since you're only on one leg it would be easier to get knocked over. And of course, if the other leg hits the mechanical-issue critical state, you collapse and go boom.

[Red Beard]

Kudzu, on 20 November 2011 - 10:11 AM, said:

The further away you move away from the IP the more you need to not use it at all and design your own.

Deciding to not use the TT rule set is, in NO WAY, "moving away from the IP". That's not even funny. The TT rules do not, at all, define this game, nor the MW franchise. The only thing that the TT rules define is what can happen in the TT game. Everything that the devs have suggested in relation to leaving behind the TT rules is a positive and progressive thing.

[Melissia]

Anyone ever have the idea that a 'mech can roll on its back then sit up and keep firing that way if it loses a leg? Faster if the 'mech still has at least one functioning arm.

[Red Beard]

Suggesting that a battlemech that loses a leg should still be able to fight, even for a bit, is kind of like suggesting that a jet fighter should be able to hang in there for a minute or two after having a wing blown off. I don't care what novel says that it can happen, or what TT manual gives you a save roll, it cannot happen and is totally ridiculous to think so. You people are joking, right?

[Red Beard]

Melissia, on 20 November 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

Anyone ever have the idea that a 'mech can roll on its back then sit up and keep firing that way if it loses a leg? Faster if the 'mech still has at least one functioning arm.

Oh good God. Are you kidding? If your mech gets its leg blown off, you are DONE. It's over. Move on.

[UncleKulikov]

Prosperity Park, on 19 November 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

So, gameplay-wise, should Mechs topple over if they receive excessive leg damage [to the point of total limb destruction], or should we just chalk this one up to "Keep the Sci out of SciFi?"

I know it's a game, and you have to keep the game playable... but to be perfectly frank, if you ever find yourself fighting a hoard of giant bipedal Mechs, you *should* very well target the legs. I mean we try to make our tanks with a small frontal surface area, armor plate covering the treads, and a low center of gravity for a reason - it keeps them mobile under fire. The legs of a tall Mech would be targeted ASAP under conditions of war.

Especially if the conditions of war revolve around preserving infrastructure and mechanical devices. Shooting a Mech's leg out from under it will severly reduce its combat-effectiveness and also preserve the chassis for salvage or repair. A Mech pilot should be encouraged to abandon a toppled Mech unless they have the ability to return fire from ground, rather than play Hero and refuse to surrender. As said before, that would just result in someone circling around behind and blasting away.

A good way to have legging be in while still allowing fun play is to slow the mech down the more injured a leg is. If one is completely "destroyed" then the mech should move at 1/4 speed, and if both legs are "destroyed" it should be rendered immobile, though still standing. If it gets knocked over after that though, it would be knocked down permanently and have to rely on it's arms to move and prop itself up to fire.

[Red Beard]

There is no arguing with people who live and die by their "save rolls".

[Melissia]

Red Beard, on 20 November 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

Oh good God. Are you kidding? If your mech gets its leg blown off, you are DONE. It's over. Move on.

Oh, so I guess realism doesn't matter anymore does it?

'Mechs dont' feel pain. They're the ********* black knight. 'Tis only a flesh wound!

The leg ain't the head or cockpit. Finish the enemy off or worry about them finding some other way to fight.

Edited by Melissia, 20 November 2011 - 01:50 PM.

[Red Beard]

UncleKulikov, on 20 November 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

A good way to have legging be in while still allowing fun play is to slow the mech down the more injured a leg is. If one is completely "destroyed" then the mech should move at 1/4 speed, and if both legs are "destroyed" it should be rendered immobile, though still standing. If it gets knocked over after that though, it would be knocked down permanently and have to rely on it's arms to move and prop itself up to fire.

I think I need some kind of medication. I am going to see what the wife has in the medicine cabinet. This just too much. I still think this must be a cruel joke.

[Red Beard]

Melissia, on 20 November 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

Oh, so I guess realism doesn't matter anymore does it?

I would file this whole legging thing more under common sense than the idea of sticking to realism.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

I partially agree.
Total Warfare indicates that a 'mech losing a leg would, indeed, fall, but the pilot can attempt to stand&walk on a single leg in subsequent turns. TacOps also adds the option of crawling, provided you got full arm actuators on both arms.

[Red Beard]

Would the recoil of anything other than a laser weapon not blow the mech off of it's last leg anyways?

This whole argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[Red Beard]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 20 November 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

I partially agree.
Total Warfare indicates that a 'mech losing a leg would, indeed, fall, but the pilot can attempt to stand&walk on a single leg in subsequent turns. TacOps also adds the option of crawling, provided you got full arm actuators on both arms.

Those are TT rules and they have no bearing here at all.

[Pht]

{JzT}Dolomite, on 19 November 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

TThere is a point that realism should not override a good game and on this point ((along with the 1 hit protection)) should stay. I did play the other versions of MW that would KD a mech who's leg was taken out and after a while it became a legging fest that, depending on the game mode, would either be an outright death sentence or have a person sit face down the whole match cause the other side did not want them back in.

Legging fests were a problem in the previous MW games because of their royally screwed up firing resolution setups that allowed FPS style aiming instead of FPACS (first person armored combat sim) style shooting.

It's simply not possible to know if this will be a "problem" until we know how they're going to handle the weapon targeting resolution.

As far as one shot protection: Blech. It didn't promote tactical gameplay; it promoted quake-frag fests in slow motion where everyone runs in a straight line at the nearest enemy like a blind fool.