155 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

Mister Blastman, on 04 August 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

The problem is MW:LL is vastly superior to MWO in almost every way with a couple of exceptions...

Just your opinion, though you are right on the terrain interaction (at least when it comes to 'Mechs, vehicles are another thing).

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vassago Rain, on 04 August 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

FF14 did the redesign after they booted out the old dev team.

It's basically an all new game, and not a redesign - is what I'm saying.

And it's probably the best MMO on the western market at this time because of that.

The game doesn't need a reboot.
It possibly doesn't need a new dev team ( and please note i did say possibly)

It does need a new balance lead, and to use the test server every freaking day of every freaking week testing balance and weapon changes.
It does need an overhaul on basic mechanics pending the removal of the worlds shittiest bandaid balance mechanisms (hi ghost heat and incoming link etc etc etc)

[Mister Blastman]

Thorn Hallis, on 04 August 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Just your opinion, though you are right on the terrain interaction (at least when it comes to 'Mechs, vehicles are another thing).

Yeah. What is really funny is MWO had even better terrain interaction in closed beta. Like way better. So good, in fact, that I thought it was divine intervention allowing 'mechs to move so well in a Cryengine title.

Now look where we are...

[Enigmos]

They had to have the core mechanics down in order to have anything to the game.

The core mechanics are pretty good, though we can disagree about this or that detail. Now that they have the core they can work on the rest. We helped fund the project this far. I suspect nobody is just walking off with all the dough laughing. I believe they are reinvesting the bulk of the money we pay back into the game.

Totally agree on the destructible environments as it would add so much, I think, to the enjoyment of most of us. Especially the Citadel in River City. We really need to make it a small island of pulverized rubble.

Other hand, it wouldn't be so enjoyable if all that destruction brought the server to its knees every time it rained missiles.

Well, maybe just once...

Maybe if the destructible environments are simply impossible for 24 client instances they could make phased matches with a 'before battle' and an 'after the first battle' version of the map.


I think they can get away with faction/clan warfare if they let the houses use clan mechs and IS use clan mechs. I don't see the issue with that. I guess the lorists will raise a hue and cry.

Yes we need more maps. Yes, we could use more and larger maps, but we could also use some tight intricate maps as well.

But I do not think the whole game needs a reboot, and I certainly would rather we kept the guys who made it happen after all those years of wishful yearning.

Don't toss the baby out with the bathwater.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 04 August 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Turist0AT]

MWO is in a sad state compared to MWLL

[Hungry Hungry Hobo]

Rewards for objectives need to be seriously redesigned.

Fun fact you get no points for capturing points in conquest, but get c-bills and 150exp for each turret kill.

I was able to run into the enemy base and kill all the turrets for myself and get 900exp.

Don't even get me started on role warfare and light mechs. It's just pathetic how long these issues have gone unchanged.

[stjobe]

MWO doesn't need a complete reboot.

It doesn't need a new dev team.

It does need a new lead dev, and it needs a serious re-work of some crucial areas:
* The heat system
* Convergence and HSR
* Weapon and 'mech balance

It also desperately needs to implement the missing three design pillars of Role Warfare, Information Warfare, and Community Warfare.

But a complete redesign with a new dev team? Nah, the core gameplay is decent enough. It's just missing everything else. Still. Two years down the road.

Edited by stjobe, 04 August 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Jonny Taco]

Solahma, on 04 August 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

They would need a lot of money to do a complete redesign (a new game)... gooooood luck getting another successful Kickstarter!

You do know that the amount of money that they have made since this game "started" with the founders pack is easily enough to develop a full game and then some right? Clans alone have netted them close to if not more than 10mil... The problem is concurrency (sale of a product as it's being developed) as well as no suitable competitor... The end result is far lower quality that costs far far more.

Edited by lartfor, 04 August 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 04 August 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

It does need a new lead dev, and it needs a serious re-work of some crucial areas:
* The heat system
* Convergence and HSR
* Weapon and 'mech balance

It won't happen.

Here's a quick history lesson.

Russ and Bryan have been with each other for probably a decade, in previous ventures.

While Paul is technically a "newcomer" to PGI, he has moved up in the PGI ranks.

There's no way in hell that Russ will fire Paul, based on how he's teamed up with Bryan... who couldn't understand at one point at how bad the cockpit glass was, let alone film grain. I mean, Paul was the guy that screwed up the original pitch about Coolant.. making 2 Coolant C-bill versions vs 1 better MC version (slot usage was kinda important back then, moreso now).

So, yea.. no/good luck with that.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 August 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Mad Pig]

The game needs to evolve more than anything else. Adding role warfare, community warfare, and a basic economy to what we have today would add value. Rather than staying focused and proactive on extending content, PGI drains its resources by being overly reactive to the forum betties.

There's a lot of 'noise' in the forums that seems to constantly derail PGI's timelines. A seasoned product owner to lead the Dev team would make a significant difference.

As such, the game is what it is. If you enjoy it, play on.

[Malleus011]

They seriously need to focus on making the matches matter; giving us some *reasons* to play (instead of 'grind more C-Bills, or spend money not to) and making the game fun.

Right now, the combat mechanics are a C+; the economy is an F, skill tree is a D-, personalization is a D-, and store is a D. Fun is a C- and deteriorating; now that Clans are in, there isn't much novelty left for them to release in the future. Unless they can deliver compelling, fun reasons to play - and play all the weight classes and roles of 'mechs - the game will slowly dwindle until their license expires.

I've seen suggestions of big maps with capture points that spawn mini-missions; new players spawning into existing battles, and long actions with hours-long campaigns to capture a given map. Wouldn't *that* be fun for MWO.

[Davers]

Mister Blastman, on 04 August 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

The problem is MW:LL is vastly superior to MWO in almost every way with a couple of exceptions...

1. PGI Blocked MW:LL from releasing their mechlab. In a way, this isn't so bad, because, surprisingly, the stock builds in MW:LL are really, really nice.

2. The way the 'mechs interact with the terrain. There are some issues in MWO right now where we get stuck on little rocks. This is worse in MW:LL.

That's about it. MW:LL beyond that is superior in every way. The game is a million times more fun, has far more depth, the maps are superior, the ticket based system allows for LARGE amounts of VARIETY in every game due to how the spawns work, so there isn't this... "deathball here and hope to win."

I wish upon wish people would play MW:LL.

Then why wasn't it more popular? Why are there only like 20 people playing it at any given time now? Not being snarky here, just curious why the game that is a "million times better" never attracted a huge following like MW:O has.

[burns]

Viktor Drake, on 04 August 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Anyway, anyone wish PGI would just stop and reboot the game?

Yes, i do.
Not that my option would have any weight since i stopped being a regular long time ago (went back to WoT and other fav games which are not F2P).

After the beta ended and new maps (what the game still needs the most) weren´t flushing in in any way i would have expected, and with all the meta game ping pong which lets you wonder who the f... makes their design decisions, and finally PGI having developed a habit of making patches only for more pay content -- let´s just say i´m through with it.

Have your moneygrab business. But not on my back.
Nowaydays i just stop by to see if there´s anything up for grabs for free.


Whilst i´m talking about free stuff, why not just remove that silly redeem button from front page?
The only two times we got to use it (PC Gamer & Nvidia) were during closed (or open?) beta! lmao

[Mister Blastman]

Davers, on 04 August 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Then why wasn't it more popular? Why are there only like 20 people playing it at any given time now? Not being snarky here, just curious why the game that is a "million times better" never attracted a huge following like MW:O has.

Because nobody wanted to keep paying money for Crysis upgrades, first, to actually buy Crysis, then, to buy the expansion, just to play a mod. It also took years to develop. I know that the expansion was a huge reason that kept me from playing it for a while. I didn't want to fork out 10 bucks for a game that... "nobody played." See how the cycle repeats itself? It is psychological.

There are many reasons--but trying to build a community around a mod is extremely difficult when a commercial entity is teasing everyone to play something. It also didn't help that Crysis wasn't a 'mech game, to begin with.

But... all that is different, now. Most don't realize you don't even have to buy Crysis or the expansion to play it, nowadays. It works off a demo.

Yeah, so it is completely free, now. Gamespy having shut down, makes browsing for games much harder, now. That's why you only see 20 people or less. The in-game browser doesn't work as of a few months ago. So we have this...

http://stats.spikx.net/mwll.html

[Tom Sawyer]

They seriously need to take a hard look at what they have created. Then take a hard look at who is still playing. Finally a hard look at what base of players they wish to get to come back, new players to attract and retain.

If they and the players are happy with click in, shoot and kill, rinse and repeat then they are on track.

If they expect to lure back or attract players who want SUBSTANCE and not just a FPS with stompy mechs then indeed make some changes.

[meteorol]

Mister Blastman, on 04 August 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Because nobody wanted to keep paying money for Crysis upgrades, first, to actually buy Crysis, then, to buy the expansion, just to play a mod. It also took years to develop. I know that the expansion was a huge reason that kept me from playing it for a while. I didn't want to fork out 10 bucks for a game that... "nobody played." See how the cycle repeats itself? It is psychological.

There are many reasons--but trying to build a community around a mod is extremely difficult when a commercial entity is teasing everyone to play something. It also didn't help that Crysis wasn't a 'mech game, to begin with.

But... all that is different, now. Most don't realize you don't even have to buy Crysis or the expansion to play it, nowadays. It works off a demo.

Yeah, so it is completely free, now. Gamespy having shut down, makes browsing for games much harder, now. That's why you only see 20 people or less. The in-game browser doesn't work as of a few months ago. So we have this...

http://stats.spikx.net/mwll.html

I played it 3 or 4 years ago. I didn't need a crisis expanison at that time. Played it for 2 weeks because there simply were not enough players. One populated server with 13 guys on it during EU-primetime. Often i only saw 5 or 6 guys online. I honestly doubt MW:LL ever had a considerable playerbase.

Davers has a point in some way. Given how many guys (here) claim MW:LL is like the best thing ever and there was no other game on the market using this IP that guys are allegedly so passionate about (playing MWO even if the hate it, because "it is the only thing we got during the last 10 years"), it's wondrous that it seemingly never had success in any remarkable way. Getting Crisis was an investment of like 10$ which is almost nothing compared to what guys shell out on MWO.

Edited by meteorol, 04 August 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Zypher]

Davers, on 04 August 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Then why wasn't it more popular? Why are there only like 20 people playing it at any given time now? Not being snarky here, just curious why the game that is a "million times better" never attracted a huge following like MW:O has.

MWLL major flaw was accessibility, being a mod, it wasn't truly free, you need Crysis Wars I believe. Once you got past that there were a plethora of technical issues getting the game to run / install properly regardless of how easy they made the installer. Not many people even knew about the mod on top of it all, you still get people posting that they only recently discovered it. Lastly, a lot of the issues with the Engine could not be resolved, in some cases there were workarounds, but Crytek would not give the team access to the source code, certain limitations were just accepted.

[Dawnstealer]

Mister Blastman, on 04 August 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

The problem is MW:LL is vastly superior to MWO in almost every way with a couple of exceptions...

1. PGI Blocked MW:LL from releasing their mechlab. In a way, this isn't so bad, because, surprisingly, the stock builds in MW:LL are really, really nice.

2. The way the 'mechs interact with the terrain. There are some issues in MWO right now where we get stuck on little rocks. This is worse in MW:LL.

That's about it. MW:LL beyond that is superior in every way. The game is a million times more fun, has far more depth, the maps are superior, the ticket based system allows for LARGE amounts of VARIETY in every game due to how the spawns work, so there isn't this... "deathball here and hope to win."

I wish upon wish people would play MW:LL.

It does seem like the level designers in LL were quite a bit more skilled than the group doing MWO's maps (they outsource this, right?). I never played LL, but some of the videos I've seen look really amazing.

I do like MWO and I'm still having fun playing it. Like many of you, the maps have become so monotonous that I'll usually only play a few drops before going and doing something else, whereas before I'd play a few hours.

The number and variety of mechs is pretty good right now (even though there are a few favorites of mine I'd love to see); the mechanics are pretty good; the idea is good. I've said this elsewhere, but the place that PGI really needs to step up is the maps. There are not nearly enough maps to pull off CW successfully and if the existing maps are any indicator, they really need to up the design, too.

The current maps feel like arenas more than lived-in worlds. Even Crimson Straits seems a little lifeless.

Edit: thought - PGI should hire the guys who were making maps for LL. For example, imagine if Terra Therma looked like this:

Edited by Dawnstealer, 04 August 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Davers]

Zypher, on 04 August 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

MWLL major flaw was accessibility, being a mod, it wasn't truly free, you need Crysis Wars I believe. Once you got past that there were a plethora of technical issues getting the game to run / install properly regardless of how easy they made the installer. Not many people even knew about the mod on top of it all, you still get people posting that they only recently discovered it. Lastly, a lot of the issues with the Engine could not be resolved, in some cases there were workarounds, but Crytek would not give the team access to the source code, certain limitations were just accepted.

Didn't DOTA originally require having Warcraft 3? Wasn't there this whole legion of fans waiting for a Mechwarrior game? It just seems that it never even hit 'cult status'.

[Bishop Steiner]

I really never have understood the love for MWLL.