155 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

MW4 felt like a console video game.

Did you ever actually play MW4 competitively in any of the NR FFP leagues?

I gotta suspect the answer is no.

[Jonny Taco]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

MWO smokes MWLL in that. Maps.... MWO could have many more, if they were willing to push out low fidelity crap like MWLL did.

I think the word you should have used was "lower" not "low"... MAPS in mwo are most certainly low quality, you don't have to look past the awful environment hit boxes to see why.

[Vassago Rain]

Kibble, on 04 August 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

No one will redesign this game and no one will make another.

If PGI closes it's doors and shuts the game down do not expect to see another Mechwarrior game. Ever.

We have to just deal with what we have and thank the people that spend

lol no.

If they were to lose the license and close this mess down, it'd be about a week before some new company came out with a new version. You see, we've proven to the world that old men are made of money, and it doesn't take much more than honesty and frequent updates to please us.

That's kinda why starcitizen, elite, wasteland, double-fine adventures, mighty number 9, the new plancescape torment, and about a billion other games like them were funded so quickly and effectively.

Stop pretending you have to settle for second rate trash. If you have settled for it, that's on you.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 04 August 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[Roland]

Yeah, if anything, MWO proved that there are tons of us who are willing to pay MILLIONS of dollars for a mechwarrior title, sight unseen.

The fact that PGI squandered all of that goodwill is on them, not on a lack of a market.

[Sandpit]

to answer the OP

yes, some sections I'd love nothing more. I think PGI has tried to cater to the wrong crowds and is just now figuring out that larger number =/= larger cash crop.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 04 August 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Yeah, if anything, MWO proved that there are tons of us who are willing to pay MILLIONS of dollars for a mechwarrior title, sight unseen.

The fact that PGI squandered all of that goodwill is on them, not on a lack of a market.

exactly what I'm talking about. They got it backwards. When OB opened up and we got flooded with more casual and "traditional" shooter type players, we saw a LOT of decisions based on catering to that crowd. The problem is that crowd isn't looking for a Btech game. They're looking for a cool new shooter. Those players will jump in and out of this game as other games come out, etc.

Btech players (you konw, that founders crowd?) want a Btech game and aren't going to (at least wouldn't have) jump out of this game often if ever. Every gaming dollar they had would have gone into this game. The clan packs tell a pretty good tale on that to me.

Clans made less money than founders. I think that's starting to sink into PGI a bit. If they really want to make gobs of money on a Btech game, they need to include the Btech crowd. If they didnt' want to make a Btech game, they could have easily made a game more like Hawken and never used the IP and avoided a lot of, if not all of, the ill will they've generated with that founders crowd (and the players like them that wanted a Btech game)

[Viges]

They have redesigned UI already... and they have redesigned weapon scaling on mechs already...


and module system... and heat mechanics... and...

the more they redesign the worse it gets

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 04 August 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Did you ever actually play MW4 competitively in any of the NR FFP leagues?

I gotta suspect the answer is no.

Honestly don't remember what leagues I played in. It wasn't the Mektek era stuff, though (only played it a few times, and once I saw the patch stuff for the flying Wasp fighting ariel dropships, I said no), if you refer to that, but the actual MW4 stuff. And yeah, console video game.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 August 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

They have redesigned UI already... and they have redesigned weapon scaling on mechs already...


and module system... and heat mechanics... and...

the more they redesign the worse it gets

they modified, not redesigned (except the UI) everythign they've done has just tweaked or revamped a system or band-aid they already had in place that didn't fix the issue it was designed to fix in the first place. So now we keep getting extremely complicated mechanics and such to keep building on the previous band-aid which still aren't fixing the original issue

What we honestly have is a similar situation
http://www.gamasutra...successful_.php

That game had to compeltely relaunch and revamp almost everything from the ground up. It worked though and improved the game overall.

If PGI said tomorrow "We're doing a complete reset and refund of all cbills, mc, etc. in order to completely rebuild some o fthe key systems of the game because we've gone too far into what we were doing and simply can't fix these things without it" I'd buy a clan pack and jump for joy.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Honestly don't remember what leagues I played in. It wasn't the Mektek era stuff, though (only played it a few times, and once I saw the patch stuff for the flying Wasp fighting ariel dropships, I said no), if you refer to that, but the actual MW4 stuff. And yeah, console video game.

The flying Wasp came way after the true Mektek era and Roland quit. MP3 (the update with the Wasp) was 2 years or so after HC started since I know Roland pretty much stopped after NBT-HC started development?

Edited by majora incarnate, 04 August 2014 - 01:24 PM.

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 04 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

If PGI said tomorrow "We're doing a complete reset and refund of all cbills, mc, etc. in order to completely rebuild some o fthe key systems of the game because we've gone too far into what we were doing and simply can't fix these things without it" I'd buy a clan pack and jump for joy.

Hmmm sorry but why would you believe in that? They said that UI 2.0 will change everything, they said so many lies that the only answer is to create kickstarter campaign to buy igp/pgi and redesign them first.

[Jonny Taco]

Sandpit, on 04 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

What we honestly have is a similar situation
http://www.gamasutra...successful_.php

As a ffxiv cb tester, ob testers, cb arr testers, and former arr player (not enough time)... I must say that what really killed the original game was the attempt at being different for the sake of being different. Almost every aspect of the game took what was successful in former mmos and just kicked it to the curb, and no I'm not advocating the wow copy pasta games the bloated the market for half a decade... I'm talking more about a sane leveling system as well as more controlled (from the designers perspective) pve content allowing for them to more easily rein in bad balance within content pushes and beyond.

What I find amusing is that the most loathed issues with mwo tend to also be design decisions based around a "different for the sake of different" mentality. Ghost heat instead of numerous other ideas being the poster child example here.

I feel that if mwo took a step back and tried for a second to figure out what kind of GAME they wanted to build rather than what kind of BUSINESS MODEL, we would all see a massive improvement. FTP is clearly not what BT or MW want or ever wanted... While that's clearly here to say within this games lifespan, we as dedicated customers of PGI deserve at least a period of time in which game play rather than monetization is the key portion of your game studios mission statement rather than the opposite.

[Gremlich Johns]

I do not agree with the OP pov - if PGI keeps "fixing" the game, then there will be someone who knows they can do a better job beginning 2018.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 August 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Hmmm sorry but why would you believe in that? They said that UI 2.0 will change everything, they said so many lies that the only answer is to create kickstarter campaign to buy igp/pgi and redesign them first.

I said IF they said, I would say as opposed to whining about resetting everything

[Roland]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Honestly don't remember what leagues I played in. It wasn't the Mektek era stuff, though (only played it a few times, and once I saw the patch stuff for the flying Wasp fighting ariel dropships, I said no), if you refer to that, but the actual MW4 stuff. And yeah, console video game.

The thing is, if you didn't play in the FFP NR leagues, then I'd tend to agree.,.. since they were dominated by 3rd person jumpsniping behind a wall.

The NR leagues though, like UTS and NBT, consisted primarly of extremely tactical combat. The matches lasted between 30 minutes and an hour PER DROP.

That's not a console game.

[Vassago Rain]

Sandpit, on 04 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

they modified, not redesigned (except the UI) everythign they've done has just tweaked or revamped a system or band-aid they already had in place that didn't fix the issue it was designed to fix in the first place. So now we keep getting extremely complicated mechanics and such to keep building on the previous band-aid which still aren't fixing the original issue

What we honestly have is a similar situation
http://www.gamasutra...successful_.php

That game had to compeltely relaunch and revamp almost everything from the ground up. It worked though and improved the game overall.

If PGI said tomorrow "We're doing a complete reset and refund of all cbills, mc, etc. in order to completely rebuild some o fthe key systems of the game because we've gone too far into what we were doing and simply can't fix these things without it" I'd buy a clan pack and jump for joy.

Mr. Yoshida is also a bold genius operating under a different set of rules to PGI. They would not hire a new lead to replace Paul and Bryan, who'd then convince Russ that they need to remake the game from scratch to retain fan support.

This is an impossible scenario, as Bryan is co-owner, Paul seems to have been assimilated into management, and Russ has final say, while Mr. Bradley and Matt Newman would also need to give their approvals. That's just the people I know. IGP would likely be involved in such a process.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 04 August 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 04 August 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

The thing is, if you didn't play in the FFP NR leagues, then I'd tend to agree.,.. since they were dominated by 3rd person jumpsniping behind a wall.

The NR leagues though, like UTS and NBT, consisted primarly of extremely tactical combat. The matches lasted between 30 minutes and an hour PER DROP.

That's not a console game.

you are obviously not understanding my comment. Tactics, no tactics, the gameplay mechanics of MW4 were very console game. Gundam.like gameplay, NOT Mechwarrior/Battletech.

[Roland]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

you are obviously not understanding my comment. Tactics, no tactics, the gameplay mechanics of MW4 were very console game. Gundam.like gameplay, NOT Mechwarrior/Battletech.

Well, I think that a big part of the GAMEPLAY which enabled the more tactical aspect stemmed from much larger maps, and a more involved sensor model.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 04 August 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Well, I think that a big part of the GAMEPLAY which enabled the more tactical aspect stemmed from much larger maps, and a more involved sensor model.

which again, largely have no bearing on the mechanics of mech combat, in and of itself, directly. In that regards, MW4 did 2 things better... their more restrictive hardpoint system, and having a rearview mirror. MW3 and MW4 both had ezmode radar.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

you are obviously not understanding my comment. Tactics, no tactics, the gameplay mechanics of MW4 were very console game. Gundam.like gameplay, NOT Mechwarrior/Battletech.

They were only Gundam like due to manueverability or speed differences (we all know JJs werent that different between the two other than less gravity on MW4) which are just values that can and were adjusted throughout the various MW4 mods. Other than that the mechanics have been largely the same outside of radar detection not being LOS based, but that doesn't stop the long range meta from dominating and the UAV and shared targeting telemetry greatly reduces the effect of LOS radar has on gameplay.

One thing MW4 did have going for it, visuals/max weapons range/max sensor range were all tied together which is honestly something MWO should've kept rather than the silly falloff damage, highly variable and convoluted sensor ranges, and as far as possible visual range.

Edited by majora incarnate, 04 August 2014 - 02:09 PM.