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Anyone Aside From Me Really Wish Pgi Would Just Stop And Redesign The Game?


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#81 Sandpit

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:11 PM

View Postlartfor, on 04 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:


As a ffxiv cb tester, ob testers, cb arr testers, and former arr player (not enough time)... I must say that what really killed the original game was the attempt at being different for the sake of being different. Almost every aspect of the game took what was successful in former mmos and just kicked it to the curb, and no I'm not advocating the wow copy pasta games the bloated the market for half a decade... I'm talking more about a sane leveling system as well as more controlled (from the designers perspective) pve content allowing for them to more easily rein in bad balance within content pushes and beyond.

What I find amusing is that the most loathed issues with mwo tend to also be design decisions based around a "different for the sake of different" mentality. Ghost heat instead of numerous other ideas being the poster child example here.

I feel that if mwo took a step back and tried for a second to figure out what kind of GAME they wanted to build rather than what kind of BUSINESS MODEL, we would all see a massive improvement. FTP is clearly not what BT or MW want or ever wanted... While that's clearly here to say within this games lifespan, we as dedicated customers of PGI deserve at least a period of time in which game play rather than monetization is the key portion of your game studios mission statement rather than the opposite.

same here
I doubt it will actually happen but I think they tried to go in too many directions.

I had an itneresting conversation iwth another player yesterday and it really made sense.

If PGI had instead called this MWO: Fourth Succession War
That does two things
First and foremost it announces to all the Btech players out there that this is a Btech game with Btech rules
The next thing it does is tell all the casual and uninitiated players that this is a Btech game with Btech rules

Btech crowd is happy
Non-Btech crowd knows what to expect and can easily peruse Sarna if interested in the lore and background of the universe. Then there's no confusion about what exactly CW is, as opposed to the succession wars that Btech players know and love.

With that, they add in a "stompy queue" and a "hardcore queue" both solo and group just like now.
Stompy queue = casual stomp and shoot and play pokemech
Hardcore queue = CW queue, with hard consequences to losses, functioning economy, etc.

As it is now I have no idea how PGI can bring both of those players together and continue on with the tagline that "all matches impact CW". It's just not going to happen. The private queues (at least free ones where you can't adjust settings other than maybe stock option and circumventing rule of 3" should have been for player run leagues and such.

Premium private are perfect for clans and units doing trials and promotions, etc.

Then you have 2 "bank accounts" you have a "CW account" that is separate from the "stompy account"
You have different hangars for each queue. Anything you've purchased up to this point is allowed into CW queue (unless they did the proposed reset). New players progress through ranks in the "CW queue" to buy bigger mechs. MPBT3025 had a similar system and it worked quite well so I know factually it's viable and can be done.

Stompy queue has a different economy but resources collected in it are not transferred to the "CW queue" so essentially you have two games, two crowds, everyone is included, and everything is accessible because as much as I want CW and such, sometimes it really is just fun to drop in a random mech either solo or with buddies and stomp and shoot. Not earning anything to buy new stuff is pointless and sucks though.

Then take the premium private matches and allow players to "buy into" the match. The pot is then paid out based on performance so you add a gambling and solaris type setting as well.

It's really that easy. With those queue layouts players can seamlessly switch out and keep all queues populated

THEN you add lobbies. Let players easily find other players and communicate in real time.

I promise that would solve a lot of MM woes, not alienate any players, and improve game play overall.

THEN do away with ghost heat for homeless bill's system
Delay the convergence slightly for bigger weapons AC2 = 0 delay, AC5 = .2, AC10 = .4, AC20 = .5, PPC = .3) problem solved for FLD and PPD
Use LP to determine rank in the CW queue

THEN all you have to do is start actually promoting your stuff and let the money roll in.

Instead of that PGI seems intent on their narrow vision that keeps changing. You simply cannot develop anything if your target keeps moving and they've got nobody to blame but themselves for that.

#82 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:12 PM

View Postmajora incarnate, on 04 August 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:



One thing MW4 did have going for it, visuals/max weapons range/max sensor range were all tied together which is honestly something MWO should've kept rather than the silly falloff damage, highly variable and convoluted sensor ranges, and as far as possible visual range.


Not sure I get this.

Projectiles lose velocity at range. Even HEAP use velocity as part of the damage dealing package. Lasers lose beam cohesion, etc. Admittedly, at far farther ranges than Btech/MWO, but then, how much farther could we realistically use them in game? (and how boring would it get)

But visual cutoff? I can see for miles on a clear day. Especially something the size of a Building. Seems awful silly to not be able to use visual data from beyond weapon ranges. (I kind of like being able to scout data without getting face shot)

#83 Roland

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

which again, largely have no bearing on the mechanics of mech combat, in and of itself, directly. In that regards, MW4 did 2 things better... their more restrictive hardpoint system, and having a rearview mirror. MW3 and MW4 both had ezmode radar.

The actual mechanics of combat in MW4 were effectively identical to MWO....
The radar in MW4 was actually based on your own sensor packages, your mode, and those of your target... Quite a bit deeper than what we have now, where you get a magical triangle over anything you see, unless it has ECM.

#84 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:21 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:


Not sure I get this.

Projectiles lose velocity at range. Even HEAP use velocity as part of the damage dealing package. Lasers lose beam cohesion, etc. Admittedly, at far farther ranges than Btech/MWO, but then, how much farther could we realistically use them in game? (and how boring would it get)

But visual cutoff? I can see for miles on a clear day. Especially something the size of a Building. Seems awful silly to not be able to use visual data from beyond weapon ranges. (I kind of like being able to scout data without getting face shot)

Why do you need a scout when you can keep tabs on an enemy using a fast heavy from a top a high point, back in some of the days of MW4 (NBT-HC that is, Roland would groan at this point), scouts/harassers were valuable mechs that you would even take in a match with all other mechs being assaults just to have intel on where the enemy was (maps were also much bigger, so that was even more valuable). Scouts had two jobs in those days, kill enemy scout, find enemy team, and it made that role hard for most players, but also one of the more rare and sought after pilots. Especially since it often involved being able to tell when you were being baited into the enemy force or being able to do both your jobs at the same time.
It also seems rather silly to have the ability to gather intel from an enemy without the chance of being shot in the face (again, PPFLD is a problem for this very reason).

As for falloff damage, the reason why is because in Battletech, ranges of weapons were important (specifically brackets). For example, if the Gauss didn't have falloff damage, the ERPPC would have had 150m over the Gauss to which it could do nothing. Instead we got the king of sniping weapons that was the Gauss because it outdid the ERPPC in damage at all ranges. In reality, you bet MWO is more realistic, but in gameplay, MW4 was better for this fact, it added more value to ranges.

Edited by majora incarnate, 04 August 2014 - 02:22 PM.


#85 verybad

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:23 PM

The problem with the game is actually not the producers or developers fault, it's F2P.

They want to control all the DLC/content so they can make money off of it. If this game were mod friendly, it's would be a much, much better game in many ways.

#86 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:23 PM

View Postverybad, on 04 August 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

The problem with the game is actually not the producers or developers fault, it's F2P.

They want to control all the DLC/content so they can make money off of it. If this game were mod friendly, it's would be a much, much better game in many ways.

TF2 is F2P and still mod friendly considering most of the items they add to the game are community made.

#87 FupDup

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:24 PM

View Postverybad, on 04 August 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

The problem with the game is actually not the producers or developers fault, it's F2P.

They want to control all the DLC/content so they can make money off of it. If this game were mod friendly, it's would be a much, much better game in many ways.

Making personal servers to test out new weapon mechanics/stats would be so awesome, and it would be a great way to argue in favor of certain balancing changes...

#88 verybad

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:27 PM

I know I can make suitable models (not just for mechs but tanks, broken stuff, etc)

It's just a pity they don't use the community's skills.

I don't really play any longer in any case as it's boring.

#89 Greyboots

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:34 PM

View PostViktor Drake, on 04 August 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

First let me say I am not a fan of reboots especially since my SWG days, however it seemed to have worked for Final Fantasy hehe.

Anyway, anyone wish PGI would just stop and reboot the game?


Nope. The game is plenty of fun IMO.

As soon as they get rid of the annoying stuff like "my weapons don't hit right" issues and the Mechlab UI being terribly clunky I'll think the game is just fine.

Not fantastic or breathtaking, a massive achievement or "everything you could hope for in a Mechwarrior game"... but fine.

Edited by Greyboots, 04 August 2014 - 02:34 PM.


#90 Sandpit

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:35 PM

View PostFupDup, on 04 August 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

Making personal servers to test out new weapon mechanics/stats would be so awesome, and it would be a great way to argue in favor of certain balancing changes...

all they have to do is open up training grounds to any size group. Problem solved for a lot of the "there's no way to train and help new players"

Although having new players in a separate queue would solve that as well. I don't think that the player population can support that at the moment though

#91 Y E O N N E

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

View PostViktor Drake, on 04 August 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

First let me say I am not a fan of reboots especially since my SWG days, however it seemed to have worked for Final Fantasy hehe.

Anyway, anyone wish PGI would just stop and reboot the game?

Honestly about 2 weeks ago I saw my first video of Mechwarrior: Living Legends and immediately thought to myself that this was what I was hoping MWO would be. Sure it needed better graphics and some tweaks but for the most part it looked perfect.

So here we are with MWO which is well just lacking pretty much everywhere. Maps too small, battles don't feel like battles, no real sense of purpose behind the battles, no community warfare and no way to really add it in any substantial format without greatly expanding the map selections among other things.

I say start over. You already have most of the assets so you wouldn't need to fully start over, just start over on things like maps. Make them larger and more like MM:LL where you have objectives that have to be held or destroyed in order to gain victory points. Open up respawns, perhaps where you can select 4-5 mechs as "reinforcements" Add tons of maps to the game, design them so they randomly generate to make every battle unique. Add in actual faction vs faction warfare that has meaning. Just start over.

Hell I might even be convinced to buy some sort of re-boot package to hell finance it.

Anyway, yeah I know, wishful thinking but it sure would be nice.


I do.

MWO is far too small, in every way. The game would be infinitely more appealing as a combined arms experience on the scale of Planetside 2.

#92 Sandpit

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

View PostGreyboots, on 04 August 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:


Nope. The game is plenty of fun IMO.

As soon as they get rid of the annoying stuff like "my weapons don't hit right" issues and the Mechlab UI being terribly clunky I'll think the game is just fine.

Not fantastic or breathtaking, a massive achievement or "everything you could hope for in a Mechwarrior game"... but fine.

the problem is we have CW coming. There's going to HAVE to be some remodeling of some kind in order to incorporate that unless it's going to just be a leaderboard with pretty colors on it.

#93 Vassago Rain

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

View PostSandpit, on 04 August 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

same here
I doubt it will actually happen but I think they tried to go in too many directions.

I had an itneresting conversation iwth another player yesterday and it really made sense.

If PGI had instead called this MWO: Fourth Succession War
That does two things
First and foremost it announces to all the Btech players out there that this is a Btech game with Btech rules
The next thing it does is tell all the casual and uninitiated players that this is a Btech game with Btech rules

Btech crowd is happy
Non-Btech crowd knows what to expect and can easily peruse Sarna if interested in the lore and background of the universe. Then there's no confusion about what exactly CW is, as opposed to the succession wars that Btech players know and love.

With that, they add in a "stompy queue" and a "hardcore queue" both solo and group just like now.
Stompy queue = casual stomp and shoot and play pokemech
Hardcore queue = CW queue, with hard consequences to losses, functioning economy, etc.

As it is now I have no idea how PGI can bring both of those players together and continue on with the tagline that "all matches impact CW". It's just not going to happen. The private queues (at least free ones where you can't adjust settings other than maybe stock option and circumventing rule of 3" should have been for player run leagues and such.

Premium private are perfect for clans and units doing trials and promotions, etc.

Then you have 2 "bank accounts" you have a "CW account" that is separate from the "stompy account"
You have different hangars for each queue. Anything you've purchased up to this point is allowed into CW queue (unless they did the proposed reset). New players progress through ranks in the "CW queue" to buy bigger mechs. MPBT3025 had a similar system and it worked quite well so I know factually it's viable and can be done.

Stompy queue has a different economy but resources collected in it are not transferred to the "CW queue" so essentially you have two games, two crowds, everyone is included, and everything is accessible because as much as I want CW and such, sometimes it really is just fun to drop in a random mech either solo or with buddies and stomp and shoot. Not earning anything to buy new stuff is pointless and sucks though.

Then take the premium private matches and allow players to "buy into" the match. The pot is then paid out based on performance so you add a gambling and solaris type setting as well.

It's really that easy. With those queue layouts players can seamlessly switch out and keep all queues populated

THEN you add lobbies. Let players easily find other players and communicate in real time.

I promise that would solve a lot of MM woes, not alienate any players, and improve game play overall.

THEN do away with ghost heat for homeless bill's system
Delay the convergence slightly for bigger weapons AC2 = 0 delay, AC5 = .2, AC10 = .4, AC20 = .5, PPC = .3) problem solved for FLD and PPD
Use LP to determine rank in the CW queue

THEN all you have to do is start actually promoting your stuff and let the money roll in.

Instead of that PGI seems intent on their narrow vision that keeps changing. You simply cannot develop anything if your target keeps moving and they've got nobody to blame but themselves for that.


There are too many chefs in PGI's kitchen.

That's why we ended up with so many pet projects that can't ever be changed for whatever reason. Uber huge mediums, ECM that no one was allowed to change for half a year, ghost heat, gauss rifle sniper breathe mechanics, their refusal to adopt a saner pricing structure (eventually giving in and doing steam-styled 'sales'), UI 2.0 being what it is, and etc.

#94 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:02 PM

View PostSandpit, on 04 August 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

the problem is we have CW coming. There's going to HAVE to be some remodeling of some kind in order to incorporate that unless it's going to just be a leaderboard with pretty colors on it.


This is what I actually expect happening in CWs. Leaderboard with pretty colors.

I just can't see the existing game allowing for any depth in CW. There aren't enough maps for one, also there doesn't really seem to be any way to separate the factions so that they are fighting one another. Also at this point you can't separate the Clans from the IS because there is no way in hell some Steiner pilot is going to be Ok with not being able to use his $240 clan collection for CW.

Which is why I wish PGI would just start over because then we might end up with a great game.

#95 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:13 PM

View PostBulvar Jorgensson, on 04 August 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I wish they would Look at the Game From a perspective other than Catering for the Meta Players.

Playing this game should be fun....not an excuse for a small core of Players who use Art/Air strikes to ruin the game.

This is supposed to be a team game, yet the team game is not viable due to Cheap as chips RED SMOKE.


you seem to think that top tier meta players were clamoring for MORE STRIKES!

no, they wern't... meta players don't want that ****, hell it already plagues top tier matches because it's broken. It's cheap, easy to deploy, and gives an advantage... so of course it's going to be used in competitive scenes.

You use whatever's the most broken, messed up tactics/weapons/equipment to get an advantage in 12 man tourney's... why? Because it's broken, messed up, AND IT WORKS.

If anything, PGI should be looking at what's being used at the top tiers of play, and adjusting things based on that, to balance the game, to fix the problems.

The problem with the module change... was they had an idea that looked good on paper, then they put it in game... and all the min-maxing SOB's that play this game went "ARTY AND AIRSTRIKES ON ALL THE MECHS NOW!"

As a dev, PGI needs to be aware, if there's even a chance, an iota of a chance that a mechanic can be abused... IT WILL BE ABUSED. Because that's the nature of top tier play.

#96 Sandpit

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:45 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 04 August 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:


There are too many chefs in PGI's kitchen.

That's why we ended up with so many pet projects that can't ever be changed for whatever reason. Uber huge mediums, ECM that no one was allowed to change for half a year, ghost heat, gauss rifle sniper breathe mechanics, their refusal to adopt a saner pricing structure (eventually giving in and doing steam-styled 'sales'), UI 2.0 being what it is, and etc.

I've come to the same conclusion.

Poor management
Poor communication
Poor project management
Poor planning

well you get the point. It's not the skills of the dev team that are really an issue. They've done a great job in coding what they've coded. The problem is 90% of the crap they've coded does nothing to solve or mitigate the same problems that have been prevalent since OB.

If Paul and Russ' attitudes in social media are any indication, then I'd be willing to bet that in the office they're the "boss" and anyone contradicting them (as I've seen in employment reviews about the company) becomes shunned and/or let go.

There's SOMETHING behind the fact that they can't fill relatively simple and easy (at least for their industry) positions in 3 years. Money can't be the issue. They're always talking about how successful the game and company are. So what's the deal?

#97 Sephlock

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 04 August 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:


Not sure I get this.

Projectiles lose velocity at range. Even HEAP use velocity as part of the damage dealing package. Lasers lose beam cohesion, etc. Admittedly, at far farther ranges than Btech/MWO, but then, how much farther could we realistically use them in game? (and how boring would it get)


And it can already get pretty boring for a brawler who is pinned down behind cover. Hell, even actively participating in the steptarting can get kinda lame.

Quote

But visual cutoff? I can see for miles on a clear day. Especially something the size of a Building. Seems awful silly to not be able to use visual data from beyond weapon ranges. (I kind of like being able to scout data without getting face shot)


What? You didn't like the conversion from cool predator vision to grey squint-o-vision?

Edited by Sephlock, 04 August 2014 - 04:53 PM.


#98 Roland

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:55 PM

View PostSephlock, on 04 August 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

What? You didn't like the conversion from cool predator vision to grey squint-o-vision?

Remember in closed beta, before forest colony was all blury and grey? And you could actually see ****?

#99 Sephlock

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:22 PM

View PostRoland, on 04 August 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Remember in closed beta, before forest colony was all blury and grey? And you could actually see ****?

OTOH...
Posted Image
Posted Image

#100 Roland

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:26 PM

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