191 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

yuppers. though TBH, I don't think the STs need be any more prominent than a Spiders.

[Corbon Zackery]

The Assassin is on the short list of mechs considered for game development. I think they have done concept art for the Assassin.

The short list includes.
Assassin
Clint
Whitworth
Hermes
Javelin
Hussar
Hollander
Ostscout
Panther
Wolfhound (Delayed due to the rollback to 3049 3051 mech)

Right now Russ Really likes the Vindicator. That's going to be the next IS mech release.

There is talk among the higher echelon of the community of a Star League pack being released around late November to early December something to spend your Christmas bonus on. Nothing been confirmed yet.

The mechs I have listed are the short short list the ones I wrote down on the inside of a Junior mint box.
I know the Thug cousin to the Warhammer is being considered.
Flea (MASC issue)

Clan Mechs.
Vulture
Loki

There are basic rules when picking a mech.
1. Cannon?
2. Was it mass produced and easy to obtain?
3. Does it fill a specific gap in a weight class?
4. Is the community going to use it?
5. Is there a Hero variant available in cannon lore.

[Bishop Steiner]

Corbon Zackery, on 05 August 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

There are basic rules when picking a mech.
1. Cannon?
2. Was it mass produced and easy to obtain?
3. Does it fill a specific gap in a weight class?
4. Is the community going to use it?
5. Is there a Hero variant available in cannon lore.

This fails to explain the Highlander, which was is not currently in production, and even rare in the DCMS.

[BigBadVlad]

Not sure that point #2 actually factors in... and even #5? 1 or 2 Heroes have been made up if i'm not mistaken?

Edited by BigBadVlad, 05 August 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Corbon Zackery]

The Highlander is one of the most well-known Star League Defense Force assault 'Mechs, serving with distinction for almost two centuries since first entering service in 2592. Initially designed as a dedicated city and installation defender, the original model featured a variety of weaponry along with fifteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, but perhaps its most useful asset were the three Hildco jump jets giving it a jumping range of 90 meters. The heaviest 'Mech design to feature jump jets at the time, their original task was to allow the Highlander the ability to jump over inconvenient obstacles such as buildings and outpace other 'Mechs with a faster ground speed, but because of this increased mobility and its versatile weaponry the Highlander proved to be a capable fighter on any battlefield and within decades nearly every BattleMech regiment of the Regular and Royal Armies featured them. However it was during the design's initial trial runs that pilots began using these 'Mechs in what would infamously become known as the "Highlander Burial". Leaping into the air and landing directly on their enemy, a Highlander could literally drive a light 'Mech into the ground. So successful was this maneuver that the design team re-engineered the legs to withstand repeated death-from-above attacks and turned what had been a desperation move into an art form, giving Highlander pilots an additional psychological edge.^{[4][6][1][7][8]}
As with other Star League era designs the Highlander would suffer the loss of technology brought about by the Succession Wars, and when StarCorps' factory on Son Hoa was devastated towards the end of the Second Succession War the original HGN-732 became virtually extinct. An agreement between StarCorps and Hollis Incorporated to rebuild destroyed chassis from scratch using readily-available technology kept the line going until the mid-3030s when limited production was restarted by StarCorps on Son Hoa and Corey, producing barely a dozen new 'Mechs per year. These HGN-733 Highlanders were used in small numbers by the Capellan Confederation and Lyran Commonwealth, commonly as part of lances containing Exterminators, Victors, Grasshoppers and Catapults.^[4][1][7]
Unbeknownst to many ComStar also maintained a large stock of Highlanders left over from the Star League, which they gifted to the Draconis Combine during the War of 3039. The appearance of so many seemingly rare 733s, along with a few 732s whose advanced technology managed to slip through ComStar screening, had an large impact on Lyran morale during that conflict. ComStar would also use the design in their own military forces, the Com Guard, and even during the Clan Invasion a few original 732s would take to the field as part of the Clans' fighting forces. By 3057 StarCorps' Son Hoa line was at full production, producing brand-new original-spec Highlanders for Lyran units of the Federated Commonwealth, just in time to take part in the FedCom Civil War. Highlanders would continue to be produced all the way through to the Jihad, where advanced variants fought both for and against the Word of Blake

[PappySmurf]

Bishop Steiner [Medium Mechs are supposed to be y far the most common. Admittedly, even with far better game balancing, I doubt we will see that reflected by actual in game numbers anytime soon, as in general, Mediums greatest strength, versatility, is also their greatest weakness, especially in a minmax game like MWO. And most people feel anything at the low end of a weight class are a total waste.]

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And you are right but for a wrong reason the mediums and lights are built like straw dummies 1-2 its there done in past PC MechWarrior games Mediums and lights could take a lot of punishment and keep fighting right down to there last small or medium laser.
Like I said I hate MWO for the fact the mechs are so weak and fragile there are a few examples of the mechs in MWO done almost right that's the TimberWolf and the StormCrow they really take a lot of damage before they die.

Edited by PappySmurf, 05 August 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

This fails to explain the Highlander, which was is not currently in production, and even rare in the DCMS.

• "However, the Succession Wars devastated the factory on Son Hoa, leading to the virtual extinction of the design toward the end of the Second Succession War. Hollis Incorporated suggested a licensing proposal to StarCorps involving rebuilding destroyed chassis almost from scratch while using readily available technologies. StarCorps readily accepted the proposal - and a hefty licensing fee."
  
• "Hollis continued to custom-build the 733 models until the Fourth Succession War, when its license was revoked. With the capture of the Corey production line and the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, StarCorps was able to begin producing 733 refits on Son Hoa by the mid 3030s."
  
• "StarCorps was eventually able to restart full Highlander production on Son Hoa in 3057."
  
• "Both the Capellan Confederation and the Lyran Commonwealth use the Highlander in small numbers, as the production lines only churned out less than a dozen a year in either facility. It was with great surprise, then, when during the War of 3039 the Draconis Combine fielded 733 Highlanders in moderate numbers alongside smaller amounts of the original 732 models."
  
• "Tai-i Barry Corman: Commander of an assault company within the Eleventh Ghost, Corman runs a mix of Highlanders, King Crabs, and Thugs designed to slug it out with heavy Lyran troops. However, during the War of 3039, the company found themselves fighting Davion troops within the tri-cities on Matar. Corman's company held onto one section of the city while the First Kestrel Grenadiers attempted several times to push the Eleventh Ghost out. The Thugs and King Crabs eventually pushed into the Grenadiers' lines, finding pockets of Davion troops and holding them in place while the Highlanders leaped out from behind buildings and performed Highlander Burials on the pinned units. Tai-i Corman was credited with three BattleMech kills, all by death from above attacks, before the First retreated out of the urban sprawl."

All of the above are direct quotations from page 276 of TRO 3039.

The Highlander - in the form of the LosTech-free 733, 733C, and 733P variants - was in production by Hollis from the end of the Second Succession War until they lost the license just prior to the beginning of the Fourth Succession War (that is, from roughly 2864 to roughly 3028), with StarCorps restarting limited production (of the 733, 733C, and 733P) on Sun Hoa in the mid-3030s and resuming full production (including the 732) by 3057.

Additionally, the primary users of the Highlander, prior to ComStar's gifting several to the Combine in 3039, were the Capellans & the Lyrans.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 05 August 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

• "However, the Succession Wars devastated the factory on Son Hoa, leading to the virtual extinction of the design toward the end of the Second Succession War. Hollis Incorporated suggested a licensing proposal to StarCorps involving rebuilding destroyed chassis almost from scratch while using readily available technologies. StarCorps readily accepted the proposal - and a hefty licensing fee."
  
• "Hollis continued to custom-build the 733 models until the Fourth Succession War, when its license was revoked. With the capture of the Corey production line and the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, StarCorps was able to begin producing 733 refits on Son Hoa by the mid 3030s."
  
• "StarCorps was eventually able to restart full Highlander production on Son Hoa in 3057."
  
• "Both the Capellan Confederation and the Lyran Commonwealth use the Highlander in small numbers, as the production lines only churned out less than a dozen a year in either facility. It was with great surprise, then, when during the War of 3039 the Draconis Combine fielded 733 Highlanders in moderate numbers alongside smaller amounts of the original 732 models."
  
• "Tai-i Barry Corman: Commander of an assault company within the Eleventh Ghost, Corman runs a mix of Highlanders, King Crabs, and Thugs designed to slug it out with heavy Lyran troops. However, during the War of 3039, the company found themselves fighting Davion troops within the tri-cities on Matar. Corman's company held onto one section of the city while the First Kestrel Grenadiers attempted several times to push the Eleventh Ghost out. The Thugs and King Crabs eventually pushed into the Grenadiers' lines, finding pockets of Davion troops and holding them in place while the Highlanders leaped out from behind buildings and performed Highlander Burials on the pinned units. Tai-i Corman was credited with three BattleMech kills, all by death from above attacks, before the First retreated out of the urban sprawl."

All of the above are direct quotations from page 276 of TRO 3039.


The Highlander - in the form of the LosTech-free 733, 733C, and 733P variants - was in production by Hollis from the end of the Second Succession War until they lost the license just prior to the beginning of the Fourth Succession War (that is, from roughly 2864 to roughly 3028), with StarCorps restarting limited production (of the 733, 733C, and 733P) on Sun Hoa in the mid-3030s and resuming full production (including the 732) by 3057.

Additionally, the primary users of the Highlander, prior to ComStar's gifting several to the Combine in 3039, were the Capellans & the Lyrans.

And yet one more example of why I hate retconned continuity. Stop buying their stupid books eventually and everything that WAS true and canon gets chucked out the window. I played tournaments and such for war of 3039.... I can tell you no Lyran nor Capellan units had the Highlander available in the mech assignment tables. L-AMS did not exist pre clan invasion, etc.

But of course, now, it is all changed. Bunch of BS.

[Strum Wealh]

Corbon Zackery, on 05 August 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

There are basic rules when picking a mech.
1. Canon?
2. Was it mass produced and easy to obtain?
3. Does it fill a specific gap in a weight class?
4. Is the community going to use it?
5. Is there a Hero variant available in canon lore.

So, surprise 'Mech that meets all of the above points: the 45-ton Hatchetman!

Basic/Common Variants:

• HCT-3F (available since 3023)
  
• HCT-3G (available since 3023)
  
• HCT-3NH (see here, here, here, and here)
  
• HCT-5S (available in 3049)

Hero Variant: the "HCT-3F (Austin)", the personal BattleMech of Austin Vorster (a member of McKinnon's Company).
"Originally assigned to the NAIS Training Cadres, it was selected as a NAIS technology test bed before being assigned to Fox's Teeth member Austin Vorster in the lead-up to the War of 3039. Mounting a NAIS Mk. 1 LB 10-X Autocannon prototype saved enough weight to add a third medium laser, moving all three to the left arm to avoid inhibiting use of the 'Mechs hatchet."
(See here for loadout details; the "prototype LB 10-X" (11 tons, 6 criticals) has the same weight & volume specifications as the mass-production version.)

The "Hatchet issue" is solved by simply making the Hatchet fixed equipment on the 3F, 3G, and 5S (the 3NH has no Hatchet), regardless of whether functional melee combat is employed as a gameplay mechanic (and having the Hatchet serve as a placeholder for if/when melee is implemented).
Depending on the size & shape of the Hatchet, it could serve to make the right arm into a large "shield" for the rest of the body.
It may not be the fastest 'Mech (stock top speed of 64.8 kph, with a 180-rated engine on all variants), but all of the variants are jump-capable.

[Lefty Lucy]

Corbon Zackery, on 05 August 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Right now Russ Really likes the Vindicator. That's going to be the next IS mech release.

4. Is the community going to use it?

It's funny because the Vindicator totally fails this "test."

Nobody uses slow mediums, especially slow mediums towards the lower weight of the class, because slow mediums are trash.

[Strum Wealh]

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

It's funny because the Vindicator totally fails this "test".

Nobody uses slow mediums, especially slow mediums towards the lower weight of the class, because slow mediums are trash.

The Blackjack is the same weight as the Vindicator (both are 45-tonners) & moves at the same speeds as the Vindicator (both have most of their variants come stock with a 180-rated Engine), and the Blackjack seems to have quite the following.

The Assassin - the main topic of the thread - is marginally lighter than both the Blackjack and the Vindicator (40 tons, versus 45 tons) & is nearly twice as fast.

[Lefty Lucy]

Strum Wealh, on 05 August 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

The Blackjack is the same weight as the Vindicator (both are 45-tonners) & moves at the same speeds as the Vindicator (both have most of their variants come stock with a 180-rated Engine), and the Blackjack seems to have quite the following.

The Assassin - the main topic of the thread - is marginally lighter than both the Blackjack and the Vindicator (40 tons, versus 45 tons) & is nearly twice as fast.

The Blackjack doesn't see play when people care about bringing a good mech.

The Assassin would pass the test because it's essentially a light you can bring in the medium slot, for people who like to play Conquest.

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 05 August 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Escef]

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

It's funny because the Vindicator totally fails this "test."

Nobody uses slow mediums, especially slow mediums towards the lower weight of the class, because slow mediums are trash.

I've run The Shadowlander before as a joke build. For it's size it is slow and poorly armored. Heat dissipation is nothing special either, to say the least. But I've gotten surprisingly good results from it (maybe because I play it more conservatively because I know how frail it is). But if you want to understand what the joke to that build is, look at the base loadout for the Champion Highlander. That's right, kids, I shoehorned the guns from a 90 ton assault onto a 55 ton medium.

Edited by Escef, 05 August 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[Escef]

Strum Wealh, on 05 August 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Yeah - why would anyone assume that it doesn't have a hand, in stead of thinking that the right arm isn't just pushed back into the same (rather odd) position as the left arm (with the right hand being hidden behind the right hip joint)?

Because you had a textual description that said the hatchet was a medium laser sandwhiched between a pair of heat sinks?


And maybe that does seem a tad silly, but keep in mind, this is the same book that gave us the Dervish's paddle-hands.

Edited by Escef, 05 August 2014 - 08:28 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Escef, on 05 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Because you had a textual description that said the hatchet was a medium laser sandwhiched between a pair of heat sinks?


And maybe that does seem a tad silly, but keep in mind, this is the same book that gave us the Dervish's paddle-hands.

I think I must be the only person ever who thinks the Dervish looks good. Like, I hate 99% of the introbox mechs, but there's something about the Dervish that makes me totally dig it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

The Blackjack doesn't see play when people care about bringing a good mech.

SMH

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

I think I must be the only person ever who thinks the Dervish looks good. Like, I hate 99% of the introbox mechs, but there's something about the Dervish that makes me totally dig it.

nope, pretty sure I love it and was campaigning for it instead of the stupid Kintaro

[Lefty Lucy]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 August 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

nope, pretty sure I love it and was campaigning for it instead of the stupid Kintaro

You have to admit your Dervish looks way cooler than the official art.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

You have to admit your Dervish looks way cooler than the official art.

well...official art..... ya know?

[Escef]

Lefty Lucy, on 05 August 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

I think I must be the only person ever who thinks the Dervish looks good. Like, I hate 99% of the introbox mechs, but there's something about the Dervish that makes me totally dig it.

Never said I disliked it. You have to admit, the paddle-hands sounds kinda' silly in text. Illustration wise, however, it seems to work somehow. And I also think Bishop did a really nice re-interpretation of the Dervish.

[Strum Wealh]

Escef, on 05 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Because you had a textual description that said the hatchet was a medium laser sandwhiched between a pair of heat sinks?


And maybe that does seem a tad silly, but keep in mind, this is the same book that gave us the Dervish's paddle-hands.

What is your source for this "textual description" that you mention?