32 replies to this topic

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Greetings! We have all seen the Command Chair post about the changes needed for the Gauss and PPC. I think that doing either of these won't really solve the problem, and seems to push us even further from any sense of lore, especially when there is talk of lower the PPC speed.

I would rather see them do a whole re-haul on the charge mechanic before they mess with PPC / ERPPC. That weapon system is finally balanced.

Perhaps they could do a charge mechanic like this:

If you are not firing any weapons then your Gauss rifle's will charge, up to two. Charge time could be the current time it takes to charge. As long as you do not fire any weapons then your Gauss rifles will retain their charge. If you fire anything before the Gauss you will have to recharge the Gauss again.

Once you fire the Gauss you will have a cool down period where you cannot fire anything, it can be short, like 1.5 seconds or whatever. Once that period is done the Gauss will automatically start to recharge, or you can begin firing normal weapons.

This does several things:

1) It de-syncs the Gauss with every other weapon, making it impossible to combo shoot with it.
2) It removes the silly hold down charge up mechanic that will only let you keep a charge for a short period. Once you have the charge, you keep it until you fire something.
3) It allows you to be able to run a double Gauss build, or a mutiple PPC boat with out messing with the individual weapons.
4) It actually follows a sense of the lore where the Gauss is a heavy energy draw.

Hopefully the Gauss switches to something like this.

Edited by TheFuzzyBunny, 04 August 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Rasc4l]

Why not. Better than PPC velocity nerf or gauss/ppc specific mechanics. Also very simple.

[Mazzyplz]

i like this a lot better i hope the devs can read this

[DoomEngine]

This is a viable solution- YO DEV"S! GET ON IT!!!

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Thanks guys! I think it's a good option as well. Best way we can make this happen is by community positive reinforcement. Like it, get your friends to like it. Leave positive comments.

[Thomas Alderman]

I like this proposition.

[Trez91]

great idea, we need a poll.

Edited by Trez91, 04 August 2014 - 05:24 PM.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Poll added per request.

[ALKALIN3]

Solid idea...meta kids will hate this of course but I like it.

[Thrudvangar]

I love it.

[Therrinian]

I feel the PPCs should be more like the mechcommander ones, a short duration of slow moving death.

you see a wave of particles coming at you.

Edited by Therrinian, 05 August 2014 - 12:26 AM.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Therrinian, on 05 August 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

I feel the PPCs should be more like the mechcommander ones, a short duration of slow moving death.

you see a wave of particles coming at you.

You mean like how the laser are now, but with a shorter beam length?

[Minoxen]

Just to clarify. This solution would have the Gauss auto charge? (allowing for instant reflex shooting on a click)? Any weapons fired during any stage of the gauss charge will re-set the charge to 0% ? Also the rifles them selves will be unable to begin auto recharge until the "cool down" is complete?

If this is as I think it is then I'm 100% for this change. It keeps the 2 gauss maximum and returns the GR to a similar function before the charge mechanic allowing for snap shooting at targets of opportunity (when charged). I think the delay on allowing other weapons to fire doesn't have to be terribly long since even 0.5 of a second will prevent pinpoint unless the target is not moving, or the pilot is very talented and stable.

Another question:
How will this solution affect the use of one GR? Will there be a "Cool down" period after firing just one GR?
I think that if there isn't then the ppcx2+1GR will continue to be ultimately popular.

Edited by Minoxen, 05 August 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Minoxen, on 05 August 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Just to clarify. This solution would have the Gauss auto charge? (allowing for instant reflex shooting on a click)? Any weapons fired during any stage of the gauss charge will re-set the charge to 0% ? Also the rifles them selves will be unable to begin auto recharge until the "cool down" is complete?

If this is as I think it is then I'm 100% for this change. It keeps the 2 gauss maximum and returns the GR to a similar function before the charge mechanic allowing for snap shooting at targets of opportunity (when charged). I think the delay on allowing other weapons to fire doesn't have to be terribly long since even 0.5 of a second will prevent pinpoint unless the target is not moving, or the pilot is very talented and stable.

Another question:
How will this solution affect the use of one GR? Will there be a "Cool down" period after firing just one GR?
I think that if there isn't then the ppcx2+1GR will continue to be ultimately popular.

1: Correct, that is exactly my intent. Charges on its own with the player needing to do nothing accept for not fire anything.

2: Correct on the cool down. Once the cool down is done the Gauss would begin to recharge on it's own as long as nothing else is firing.

3: If you fire one Gauss all of your Gauss needs to recharge, it falls under the basic premise that if you fire anything you will have to recharge your Gauss. The Gauss you did not fire will begin to recharge immediately though instead of waiting for the cool down to finish before the recharge can start.

On the delay period that can be flexible. I agree it wouldn't need to be long at all, 0.5 or 1 second is plenty long enough.

[Livewyr]

Only nerfs the clan PP FLD options.

Does not touch PPC/AC options of IS.

-----------------------

Increase Cooldown on PPCs to 7, Increase CD on Gauss to 6

[Mitsuragi]

This is the best solution I've seen so far. Thumbs up OP. @PGI: learn from this please!

[TheFuzzyBunny]

Thanks!

[Aim64C]

It's always amusing to see people struggle with balancing the real-time implementations of the game.

"You can fix it with cool down times."

"You can fix it with making a slow moving wave of death."

"You can..."

Look, it's really pretty simple. The charge mechanic should be applied to the heat-generating weapon. When you hold down the firing button, you begin charging the PPCs and they add x number of heat per second to charge and maintain that charge.

Then when you release - the weapon fires like a shorter-duration pulse laser (since it is a particle cannon - the particles travel at nearly the speed of light but it is still a directed energy weapon with mechanics very similar to a laser except it is subject to lensing/deflecting with a magnetic field) and applies something like half of the total heat as a sudden 'spike.'

Done.

No 'heat scaling' necessary.

No "So what is the autocannon for?"

No "So... this is an energy Gauss Rifle, right?"

The issue of "what if someone builds a mech with 4 gauss" is solved by actually building a damned game. Most of the 'frankenbuilds' exist because we drop into a Team Solaris match where the number of players are known when we are building the mech and we also know about what ranges we are going to encounter the enemy.

If a swarm of hovercraft came at your AC40 Jaeger - you'd have to figure out where you can reload before you jump into a battle against lances of enemy mechs.

The same goes for the 4-Gauss direwolf.

Particularly if you have 'bases' that players operate out of separated by a few kilometers where speed is an issue.

But let's continue to try and balance Solaris matches against highly specialized builds designed to destroy enemy mechs quickly and efficiently.

I'm sure that enough tweaking of the spreadsheets can fix it.

[Mirkk Defwode]

While this is a novel idea. it punishes mechs that don't boat the weapon. I have a Centurion with a Gauss, 2ML and an LRM10. It's balanced by the terms of Battletech, I actually toned down the engine to afford the extra tonnage and swapped out the AC10. So me firing the LRM10 or 2ML would then reset the Gauss on a long range skirmisher style Centurion?

A single gauss rifle isn't a terrible threat. And this just looks to punish people who use it on smaller mechs than a the multi-weapon heavier chassis.

There are other means to balance this out. Though the method PGI is suggesting I find far more abhorrent overall.

[Kaeb Odellas]

What the hell happens if you put a PPC and a Gauss in the same fire group? Which weapon fires? Or heck, any weapon with the Gauss?

Why wouldn't this charge mechanic break dual Gauss builds? If one depowers the moment you fire the other, then it is effectively ghost heat for Gauss Rifles, but worse in that you don't even get the choice between staggered salvos or extra heat.