113 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Yesterday I was in my Kit fox, ecm + 2 ppc. I enjoyed it very much, before last ugly patch.
Let's read how hilarous it was!!!!
I was more than 1000 m away, advanced zoom, and a stormcrow appeared, immobile.
I shot.
Whatttt the..... it seemed to me that I threw a giant blue turtle!!! hahahahaha!!!!

The stormcrow was forward ("damn, I didn't hit it!"), then backward ("yes! yes! I can hit it!!!), and the forward again ("Oh, nooouuuuuuuu!").

This is just ridicolous! It is just random hit!
(good at snipe? good at evade? but please......)

Ok, another chassis, nothing particular, summoner with 4 er-LL.
I knew it was nerfed, so it wasn't a surprise.

But then I remembered the same feeling when I used to have gauss, then nerfed.

IMo, the only answer it comes to me to the topic question is "PGI wants to protect newbies".

By the way, have you idea how to snipe effectly now?

[Shae Starfyre]

Gauss

[Naenlor]

So I didn't understand anything you said, as it is just poor grammar. I am not going to spend time translating, so I will just answer the topic question.

Practice. I have a dual guass cata 4x that I LOVE! Most people will tell ya that it is not good, and to do a dual guass jager, but I can't stand the jager. The cata 4x has way more armor, so i can last longer in fights, which is always a plus.

And you would think that I couldn't hit lights, but you would be wrong. I have lost count of how many times I have just 1 shotted the lights that try to play "ring around the rosey" near this thing. It is so much fun to just shoot once, and watch a spider that was fresh, just fall over, and then dude starts cussing at you on chat.

But maybe you were not meant to be a sniper, and that is ok. You can just make yourself a lrm boat, and right now LRM's equal wins with all the lights with narc's that are running around. Hell you don't even have to be exposed to enemy fire. Just sit back, jerk off, and hold down left click, and you win.

Edited by Naenlor, 08 August 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[YueFei]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

So I didn't understand anything you said, as it is just poor grammar. I am not going to spend time translating, so I will just answer the topic question.

Practice. I have a dual guass cata 4x that i LOVE! Most people will tell ya that it is not good, and to do a dual guass jager, but I can't stand the jager. The cata 4x has way more armor, so i can last longer in fights, which is always a plus.

FYI, the Cataphract doesn't have significantly more armor than a Jagermech, since it's only 5 tons heavier. Both mechs can basically be killed by 3 solid 30+ PP FLD hits to the same shoulder if running XL. Actually Cataphracts and Jagermechs have the same max armor limit on the side torsos. And you only have 4 extra points of armor on the CT and Arms.

You know you can armor up any mech in MWO to the max armor limit for its tonnage, right? Just because a Jagermech comes with laughable amounts of armor in its stock loadout doesn't mean you have to keep it that way.

You'll also knuckle-drag in the Cataphract. The Jagermech is a better hill sniper.

[STEF_]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

So I didn't understand anything you said, as it is just poor grammar. I am not going to spend time translating, so I will just answer the topic question.

Practice. I have a dual guass cata 4x that I LOVE! Most people will tell ya that it is not good, and to do a dual guass jager, but I can't stand the jager. The cata 4x has way more armor, so i can last longer in fights, which is always a plus.

And you would think that I couldn't hit lights, but you would be wrong. I have lost count of how many times I have just 1 shotted the lights that try to play "ring around the rosey" near this thing. It is so much fun to just shoot once, and watch a spider that was fresh, just fall over, and then dude starts cussing at you on chat.

But maybe you were not meant to be a sniper, and that is ok. You can just make yourself a lrm boat, and right now LRM's equal wins with all the lights with narc's that are running around. Hell you don't even have to be exposed to enemy fire. Just sit back, jerk off, and hold down left click, and you win.

Kit fox cannot mount a gauss.

[Mcgral18]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 August 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Kit fox cannot mount a gauss.

Ah, but it can. It's a stock build, actually. Gauss+2 ERMLs.


Though, you can't have ECM. Or ammo. Or armour. You know, Stock build.

[Naenlor]

YueFei, on 08 August 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

FYI, the Cataphract doesn't have significantly more armor than a Jagermech, since it's only 5 tons heavier. Both mechs can basically be killed by 3 solid 30+ PP FLD hits to the same shoulder if running XL. Actually Cataphracts and Jagermechs have the same max armor limit on the side torsos. And you only have 4 extra points of armor on the CT and Arms.

You know you can armor up any mech in MWO to the max armor limit for its tonnage, right? Just because a Jagermech comes with laughable amounts of armor in its stock loadout doesn't mean you have to keep it that way.

You'll also knuckle-drag in the Cataphract. The Jagermech is a better hill sniper.

eehh i guess i am too much of purist to play this game like all the min/maxxer's out there. That is also why I NEVER run machine guns. They should be worthless for mech v mech combat, yet i keep seeing heavies with nothing but MG's running around getting all the kills. Just breaks my heart.

And if you can't hit people with ppc's, then you either need more practice, or as i said before, you weren't meant to be a sniper, and you need to try out other play styles to see what fits you best. I used to think I would be a great brawler, till I made my cata 4x. and yeah yeah "Knuckle dragging" i don't want to be a poptarting over the hill shooter. I want to take those guass rifles, and stick them right up my enemies ass.

[IraqiWalker]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

So I didn't understand anything you said, as it is just poor grammar. I am not going to spend time translating, so I will just answer the topic question.

Practice. I have a dual guass cata 4x that I LOVE! Most people will tell ya that it is not good, and to do a dual guass jager, but I can't stand the jager. The cata 4x has way more armor, so i can last longer in fights, which is always a plus.

And you would think that I couldn't hit lights, but you would be wrong. I have lost count of how many times I have just 1 shotted the lights that try to play "ring around the rosey" near this thing. It is so much fun to just shoot once, and watch a spider that was fresh, just fall over, and then dude starts cussing at you on chat.

But maybe you were not meant to be a sniper, and that is ok. You can just make yourself a lrm boat, and right now LRM's equal wins with all the lights with narc's that are running around. Hell you don't even have to be exposed to enemy fire. Just sit back, jerk off, and hold down left click, and you win.

Ok. I'm not a native speaker of English, and even I understood what he was saying. Or at least got the gist. The OP was talking about the PPC bolts moving slower than AC5 rounds. At long range you can fire at a mech, and in this scenario, the target SCR moved forward, and then backwards, and then forwards again, before the bolt hit the ground.

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

eehh i guess i am too much of purist to play this game like all the min/maxxer's out there. That is also why I NEVER run machine guns. They should be worthless for mech v mech combat, yet i keep seeing heavies with nothing but MG's running around getting all the kills. Just breaks my heart.

And if you can't hit people with ppc's, then you either need more practice, or as i said before, you weren't meant to be a sniper, and you need to try out other play styles to see what fits you best. I used to think I would be a great brawler, till I made my cata 4x. and yeah yeah "Knuckle dragging" i don't want to be a poptarting over the hill shooter. I want to take those guass rifles, and stick them right up my enemies ass.

Just a heads up. PPCs are no longer a sniping weapon, because they move at the speed of an AC 10 round if not slower.

[Black Ivan]

Beause Snipers and poptarts ruin the game. Too bad PGI loves LRM boats.

[Naenlor]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Ok. I'm not a native speaker of English, and even I understood what he was saying. Or at least got the gist. The OP was talking about the PPC bolts moving slower than AC5 rounds. At long range you can fire at a mech, and in this scenario, the target SCR moved forward, and then backwards, and then forwards again, before the bolt hit the ground.



Just a heads up. PPCs are no longer a sniping weapon, because they move at the speed of an AC 10 round if not slower.

Aahh see that I didn't know, as I never use PPC's. It is interesting that they made that change. If they move that slow, then yeah they would be bad for sniping now, as it would be really hard to properly lead targets, and they could just move out of the way.

I am curious as to why they made that change. Aren't PPC's "shots" suppose to be as fast as lightning in the lore?

[YueFei]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

eehh i guess i am too much of purist to play this game like all the min/maxxer's out there. That is also why I NEVER run machine guns. They should be worthless for mech v mech combat, yet i keep seeing heavies with nothing but MG's running around getting all the kills. Just breaks my heart.

Uh, I'm not exactly a "meta-build" user, myself, since I spend alot of time in a HBK-4SP. And a machine-gun-boating heavy mech is hardly a meta-build, that's more like a silly/fun build.

Besides which, MGs are supposed to be effective against mechs. In Battletech, which is the source material for this game, MGs were mounted on mechs and used against mechs. They just had very short range, but they're very well meant to hurt and kill mechs.

That extremely short range means it mainly sees use on lighter mechs that have the speed to get in close. If you watched the tournament, I don't think a single Heavy mech used any MGs at all. Plenty of Embers with MGs, though.

I'm not one to min/max, but I saw you put up info that just isn't true, so I figured I'd help you out by pointing out the flaw in your statement about the relative armor strength between the Cataphract and the Jagermech.

Quote

And if you can't hit people with ppc's, then you either need more practice, or as i said before, you weren't meant to be a sniper, and you need to try out other play styles to see what fits you best. I used to think I would be a great brawler, till I made my cata 4x. and yeah yeah "Knuckle dragging" i don't want to be a poptarting over the hill shooter. I want to take those guass rifles, and stick them right up my enemies ass.

Jagermechs don't poptart, they hill hump, cuz they don't have jump jets. I'm helping you here to get the terms right, so people don't get confused when communicating with you.

Edited by YueFei, 08 August 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Naenlor, on 08 August 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

Aahh see that I didn't know, as I never use PPC's. It is interesting that they made that change. If they move that slow, then yeah they would be bad for sniping now, as it would be really hard to properly lead targets, and they could just move out of the way.

I am curious as to why they made that change. Aren't PPC's "shots" suppose to be as fast as lightning in the lore?

yeah, but Paul decided he was going to "fix" things. For the record, so far not a single one of his "fixes" for the last 2.5 years, actually worked, and almost all ended badly.

Because he felt that the Gauss PPC meta was too powerful, and needed to be nerfed. So PPCs move at the speed of 850 m/s instead of their original 1500 m/s. That's what the OP was talking about.

In other news, he also felt the C-ERLL was too powerful, so he made it so that firing 2 would trigger ghost heat, and now it has a burn duration of 2 seconds, plus nerfing it's damage, and raising it's heat.

After the community almost collectively had a stroke, he decided in his infinite wisdom, that perhaps a ghost heat limit of 1 (Reserved only for the C-UAC 20), was maybe too much, and so he removed that part. It still has a 2 second beam duration, less damage, and more heat.

What makes it more depressing is that he asked for the community's feedback on the PPC speed nerf. A thread of about 56 pages, almost unanimously (there were 4 people that felt the speed nerf was maybe okay), saying that the idea was stupid, as it will hurt the non-offending mechs (basically ALL the mechs that aren't the Timberwolf and Direwolf), without actually fixing the real problem. The community didn't stop there. They actually proposed several very good solutions, many of them actually being very feasible, and requiring little coding on PGI's part, all of that went ignored.

If you are a sniper, stick to Gauss, it is now literally the only sniping weapon in the game. Unless you count the AC2 maybe.



EDIT: Just double checked. PPCs actually travel slower than AC10s (AC10 goes 950, PPC is 850, and ERPPCs are about as fast as AC10s)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 09 August 2014 - 12:00 AM.

[Naenlor]

YueFei, on 08 August 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Uh, I'm not exactly a "meta-build" user, myself, since I spend alot of time in a HBK-4SP. And a machine-gun-boating heavy mech is hardly a meta-build, that's more like a silly/fun build.

Besides which, MGs are supposed to be effective against mechs. In Battletech, which is the source material for this game, MGs were mounted on mechs and used against mechs. They just had very short range, but they're very well meant to hurt and kill mechs.

That extremely short range means it mainly sees use on lighter mechs that have the speed to get in close. If you watched the tournament, I don't think a single Heavy mech used any MGs at all. Plenty of Embers with MGs, though.

I'm not one to min/max, but I saw you put up info that just isn't true, so I figured I'd help you out by pointing out the flaw in your statement about the relative armor strength between the Cataphract and the Jagermech.

I know my fair share of the BT universe, and while yes MG's can "do damage" to mechs (only 2, so you only shoot them if the mech is open to try to get an extra crit) Their actual purpose in the BT universe is to deal with infantry, as they get to just slaughter people, while the other weapons don't. Since in the BT universe it is not uncommon for mechs to face infantry, and by the rule books, lasers and AC's don't do a whole lot to them, as they are really small, so you would barely hit them. The MG's would be used to mow them down. In the Battletech campaign i am in right now, I am looking into getting rid of the MG's on my Crusader, in place of heatsinks, because they are utterly worthless on it, as we have talked about it before, and we won't be doing any mech v infantry fights. I have went over the numbers, and they are just bad, except versus infantry. So don't try to talk to me like I don't know what I am talking about,

YueFei, on 08 August 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Jagermechs don't poptart, they hill hump, cuz they don't have jump jets. I'm helping you here to get the terms right, so people don't get confused when communicating with you.

Ok I will give you that they don't poptart, but my point still stands that trying to shoot someone over a hill while they can't barely hit you, cause of the hill, isn't my playstyle, so i just lump those people together.

Edited by Naenlor, 09 August 2014 - 12:21 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

JennerCrusher, on 09 August 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Are you absolutely sure? Take a good hard look at Mechwarrior 2.

Oh it can, but with that little armor, is it really worth it?

Gauss plus max armor on the prime leaves you 2.5 tons of free space.

Gauss plus stock armor, leaves you 4 tons of free space, and stock armor is very, very sad.

[STEF_]

I just played 3 hours, and, believe it or not, every match was a brawl.
I like to brawl, but I wish to have more options.
A looooooooooooot of assault, obviously, too way easier to mount gauss for long distance or other weapons for brawling.

Imo, less options mean poor game experience.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 09 August 2014 - 02:48 AM.

[Budor]

Because they never cap flags, they just camp the ***** rooftops and get 3 kills during the whole match while we lose the game.

[Monkey Lover]

Not the job of a sniper to cap they are not a light or medium mech. If they are sniping with a light/medium that is another problem.

[STEF_]

Just logged.
50% using assault.
Again.

Imo, this patch caused more problems than it wanted to solve, nerfing C-erLL and ppc.

I'll try to explain this better.
PPC was the main weapon for medium, simply because a gauss and its ammo are too heavy.
gauss+2tons of ammo=17 tons
ppc= 7 tons
Less problems for an assault, but big weight problems for a medium.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 09 August 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[Jaguar Prime]

PGI doesn't hate snipers.....They are just leveling the playing field between players who can shoot at range and those who can't..... The PPC nerf is just a temporary one. The good pilots will continue use it and hit with it and pretty soon the Gauss and ppc with be fired again together. Like all the other nerfs to certain playstyles, once people get use to it and the population of players who compensate rises, the crying will begin again.

[STEF_]

Jaguar Prime, on 09 August 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

PGI doesn't hate snipers.....They are just leveling the playing field between players who can shoot at range and those who can't..... The PPC nerf is just a temporary one. The good pilots will continue use it and hit with it and pretty soon the Gauss and ppc with be fired again together. Like all the other nerfs to certain playstyles, once people get use to it and the population of players who compensate rises, the crying will begin again.

I hope it would temporary.
But it's not true that a good pilot can use it to snipe at 1000m. The opposite mech can change direction 2 times before the "energy projectile" arrives.
Simply casual hits now, because it's impossible to know where the enemy mech will go meanwhile the "blue turtle" (or snail, if you prefer) is in the air.