950 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

WM Wraith, on 08 August 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Agree with this post more than any other....enact 10v12 and see if the c-ERLL needs to be changed. Are we out of beta yet?

In all fairness, any reasonable person should have expected balance changes to the clans. I am just irritated it took this long for them to move forward with them.

the fact that they are even considering 12v10 makes me hopeful. They had stated previously that the MM could not handle 12v10 currently.

[Fire for Effect]

Well,
I have only been on the receiving end of Clan weaponry, but the changes are:
ABSURD AND USELESS.
The changes do not do anything to lessen the worst problem in this game (aside from technical difficulties...) massive pinpoint damage to one section. Instead of simply disallowing firing 2 PPC at once (press the button and only one fires) and instead of "all damage to one section" a bit of splashing to the sections besides the main section that was hit:
You effectively did something you already tried:
You slow the PPC Bolts.
That is nothing new and it accomplished in the past: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You tried pretty much everything:
-ruining some mech chassis (Highlander anyone?)
-slowed PPC Bolts (yes you already did that, thought we forget that?)
-ruined JumpJets for heavier mechs and again raising heat (accomplishment by raising heat see below)
-tweaked PPC heat back and forth
-ghost heat (all heat changes are irrelevent for the problem since twitch kiddies simply stay behind cover a few seconds longer...)
-changes to recycle rates of weapons
but the ONLY reasonable approach is still COMPLETELY (!) ignored.
only one PPC fires in any given one second time frame.
no additional heat, no bizarre speed changes, no exceptions
If you are a good pilot you will hit the same section, if not then the desired effect of spreading damage a bit is accomplished.
also in the news:
Clan-ERLL
why change em? I am sorry as already stated I have only been on the receiving end of Clan weaponry. I see absolutely no reason to change Clan-ERLL.
It is neither necessary nor wanted, I also know noone who complains about Clan ER-LL. Many complains are about clan Pulse LL since the pulse time is absurdly long, but none about Clan-ERLL
tl, dr:
changes are erratic, seem random and are completly useless since the main problem is not even acknowledged.

Edited by Fire for Effect, 08 August 2014 - 07:43 AM.

[Kotev]

I must say Bravo to PGI. They really try to improve and balance the game. It was right decision to nerf CERLL cos i felt on my own back laser fire from across the map and us IS have nothing to return fire. Keep up the good work.

[General Solo]

They had HSR working perfectly for about 2 months before a patch borked it

[Revis Volek]

So are we trying to make this Vanilla Warrior? Where every weapon is just a different color...all do same DMG, fly at same speed, and really just suck. If you want to kill someone you must walk directly up to their face? I love brawling but Kits foxes and Adders just are not brawling mechs and this very well may have finished killing them.

Why is it that the "Elite" are the only ones polled or asked to test these things....you know A LOT more people make up the game then just those few teams that play Meta?

Every time you post "we used the elite to make fixes for the masses" I realize how out of touch you are with the player base. I see everyone asking for SMALL CHANGES but i guess you guys have a tenuous grasp on that definition.

We will see what this brings....more then likely the end of my Laser Vomit builds which is not the end of the world but not what I paid for and not what I was promised when i purchased my clan mechs. If you really want balance why don't we add that Ghost heat penalty to the IS mechs firing more then one ER large as well? For the SAKE OF BALANCE ya kno? Since we do things just because its something to do.

I hope this change is for the better, we will see what happens tonight! Prepare for the forums to be in flames much like the cockpit on my Adder and Kit Foxes....

Edited by DarthRevis, 08 August 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Colonel Tequila]

Somebody sure ****** up - the shame of it is multiple people signed of on this **** up.

More public test server. More community interaction. Less Hot/Cold style changes.

[BOWMANGR]

Prosperity Park, on 07 August 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

People asked for a MW:2 style PPC that moved slowly, and now the forums are exploding about slow PPCs.

People asked for the FLPPD mechanic of PPCs and Gauss to be disrupted, and now they are mad that Gauss Rifles are better than PPCs at long-range combat [PPCs are now less effective at Gauss ranges].

People said the Clan ERLL was to powerful and Clanners had the ultimate Long-Range advantage, and now they're all mad that Clanners are losing the long-range advantage derived from a single weapon system.

People claimed that the Clan ERLL would be the bnext ultimate game-pwning weapon once the Gauss + ERPPC combo was disrupted, and now that it isn't the case people are upset.

All I can say is that there are many weapons in this game. If your "favorite" weapon is nerfed because it was better than it should have been, then maybe you should try using other weapons that require more skill to play with?

We can't all be using Halo 1 pistols all the time, you now.

QFT.

The amount of whining in this feedback thread, of changes that aren't even implemented yet no less, shows the level of maturity of a percentage of the player base and why PGI should ignore them altogether.

The other realization is that people DO enjoy using their paid OP mechs and weapon systems to take advantage of other players who chose not to use Clan tech and now that this skill-less advantage is taken away they have to learn to compete again. Tough luck. Whine away.

[Revis Volek]

We should not be here to beat on the men and women doing their job, they are just doing what they are told more then likely for the most part and just trying to make some scrilla like everyone else.

I don't wanna kill the messenger just the idea contained in the message! lol

Edited by DarthRevis, 08 August 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[DasaDevil]

you know I'm kinda glad all my clan mechs use are AC's, SRMs and ER meds :V


I'm still mad though >:V

[Blackavar79]

PPC/ERPPC - Not even really mad on this one I dont like the whole sniper fight setup as I try and do brawling or striking most often. I use both weapons and am pretty effective on leading a target at distance if I need to. Ive already been able to dodge some PPC fire before the nerf so Im doubting getting hit much there now with as slow as they would be. Id like to see the minimal range removed from PPC though. I still feel that should of been on the ERPPC not the normal PPC.

ER Large Laser - That I dont even know what to think about. I dont like that they are adding additional ghost heat if you fire more than one laser. I dont like that its duration is longer to keep held on targets. I dont think its going to effectively fix a heat scale issue even with the changes. What I see it doing for all CLAN mechs is forcing us to hold on targets limiting our ability to torso twist and spread out the damage. Unlike Table Top gaming where the hit table is random, I just see a lot of CLAN mechs getting cored out and when they actually fire on someone they will just torso twist to spread the damage as they will have a lot longer time to do so.

My Diashi is setup with 8 ER Large Lasers and I fire them one at a time from each arm on chain fire. Seemed like a pretty good build for the way I wanted to play it and worked well from distance. Now though Ill have to replay it and see, might go back to the pulse build from there.

Ultimately - The problem is Meta builders, they want the biggest bang for the least amount of skill in fighting. They want to sit back at 1000+ range and avoid brawlers and play like they are in CoD sniping. Personally I built my mechs for utilization with long-mid range weapons or mid-short range weapons I dont ever pay attention to the OMG I can do 100+ alpha because I typically never alpha. Some of those builds maybe considered "Meta" hell I dont know nor care I play my way.

[Zolaz]

I just dont know what to say. How did anyone over at PGI think this was a good idea?

[Gallowglas]

Sprouticus, on 08 August 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

In all fairness, any reasonable person should have expected balance changes to the clans. I am just irritated it took this long for them to move forward with them.

I don't think many are up in arms about balance changes. Some, sure, but definitely not all. Most would agree I think that some tuning was in order for these weapons. The problem is the repeated pattern of doing too many broad adjustments all at once and risking a massive overnerf as a result. How does one even test what needs tweaking when you're not making incremental changes? I'm all about balancing the Clan mechs if that's what the stats show is necessary, but do so with smaller adjustments every week until things seem right, not with huge changes which are going to cause people to immediately switch out of the weapon wholesale.

Additionally, use the freaking test servers for crying out loud. The live servers should NOT be the test bed for big changes like this. I'm all about being proactive, but that doesn't mean you start shooting from the hip. You can be aggressive about balance and STILL be conservative and thoughtful about how you adjust and measure.

It seems to me that PGI needs a statistician/math guy on staff. The recent changes I have seen proposed seem like they're created based on "gut feeling" rather than actual quantifiable metrics.

Edited by Gallowglas, 08 August 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[Sandslice]

Remarius, on 08 August 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Bearing in mind they savaged the main light weapon... no it really won't be a help to lights.

(ISER)PPCs are a main light weapon?

The ISERLL isn't touched by this change; Peckravens can keep pecking.

[Steinkrieg]

PGI, just stop. You do not test these changes long enough or with a big enough population. You need to put these proposed changes on the PTS for a minimum of two weeks AND ANNOUNCE you are doing so on the forums and via the patcher so that people can test them out and give you proper feed back. As it stands now, you're playing whack-a-mole, smacking down which ever weapon you think is getting OP without actually doing legit testing.

[Apnu]

BOWMANGR, on 08 August 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

QFT.

The amount of whining in this feedback thread, of changes that aren't even implemented yet no less, shows the level of maturity of a percentage of the player base and why PGI should ignore them altogether.

The other realization is that people DO enjoy using their paid OP mechs and weapon systems to take advantage of other players who chose not to use Clan tech and now that this skill-less advantage is taken away they have to learn to compete again. Tough luck. Whine away.

I know right? I play strictly IS mechs. And I'm usually found in heavies or mediums with the occasional light mech. Since clans dropped my W/L has taken a hit and now stands at about 50% (before it was 60-65%). But my KDR has remained mostly the same improving a little bit.
I don't get what the clanners are whining about. If they didn't know PGI was going to tune clan weapons, they haven't been paying attention.

[Perilthecat]

Overall I disapprove of these particular nerfs. There were tons of good suggestions for alternate PPC nerfs:
+Make all PPCs splash to the left and right with reduced primary dmg
+Put a negative quirk on the Dire Whale to curb PPC/Gauss
+Desync PPC slightly. Not by 40%

As far as the ERLL nerfs, it would seem like they were done to (in part) pre-empt builds from moving to Gauss/ERLL builds. The duration increase I can understand and agree with (although the only people who won't be able to completely counter by twisting now are the BADs). The heat nerfs on the other hand are just silly. Heat management doesn't scale with skill, it comes down to patience. This will just push people more into defilade tactics if they decide to use ERLLs. Or they'll just abandon the weapon altogether.

[SpDmnAdam]

orcrist86, on 07 August 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I'm OK with ppc slow down. The cerll heat penalty seems out of sync compared to is models. I think a heat increase to 10 or 9.5 would have been better with the burn time increase. I will however reserve judgment until after I play with it.

Well spoken my sentiments exactly

[Osis]

Sprouticus, on 08 August 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

If the Elo was as close as indicated by Russ, then I do think the MM was accurate enough. Certainly accurate enough that a 90/10 win ratio is a concern.


the 12v10 idea should be their first change though IMO.

Sprout,

Our own channel had a long discussion about how bad the ELO matching was during this test, it was very obvious we played against Trial Mechs.

From a design standpoint, they are so far from where they started and have made so many bad choices that they have created a nightmare.

They just keep making it worse....

Seyla,

[dalemming]

Could you please nerf ACs, LRMs,SRMs,Gauss, Mg and any kind of laser aswell maybe duration 1000 and heat pen 100. than this would be a excellent laser tag game.

Edited by deLemming, 08 August 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[Jacon Ceronia]

My Summoner is now garbage.