692 replies to this topic

[ThermidorFallen]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

You know, I've never been of the "Davion is the bestest and brightest" mentality, since this is a game, but I might have to agree with that one.

Heavens no, we're not the best and the brightest, we're just superior! Better dressed too. It's the tea you see, it infuses us with moral fiber that no other faction can hope to match! (Steiner gains some moral fiber though proximity). As we all know, moral fiber provides 30% more combat effectiveness than numerical superiority, technological superiority, superior positioning and greater logistical capability. Dual AC/20 Jaegars help too.

[Hobgoblin I]

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Funny, I rarely play my clan mechs (been that way for the last 4 weeks.). I've been mainly using my IS mechs actually, barring the occasional troll drop in my DWF-Iraqi

The last time I had taken my Direwolf Prime for a drop before this last test (I had one in, and realized there was a test going on) was 4 weeks ago. Been playing Orions mostly (K and protector), as they are my best clan busters.


Yep, except only the IS has derp light pilots that can go 150 Kph.
(I'm no disputing what you're saying for the record.)
Also, as mentioned above, in solo play, clans do confer an advantage, mostly because their loadouts, and nature pretty much favor these independent long poke fests, and lack of focus fire.

Oh come on...you just took the biggest advantage IS has over the clans, that being the speed of the light mechs, and suggested it was a reason why the clans won more often.

Sure IS derp lights can get killed faster but they can run circles around any clan mech. They are usually, from my experience only, the last mechs left alive in a curbstomp.

[Mcgral18]

ThermidorFallen, on 08 August 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Heavens no, we're not the best and the brightest, we're just superior! Better dressed too. It's the tea you see, it infuses us with moral fiber that no other faction can hope to match! (Steiner gains some moral fiber though proximity). As we all know, moral fiber provides 30% more combat effectiveness than numerical superiority, technological superiority, superior positioning and greater logistical capability. Dual AC/20 Jaegars help too.

https://www.dropbox....%20Nutshell.mp4

[EgoSlayer]

Hobgoblin I, on 08 August 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Throwing games? Only IS did that and not the clans? You have some sort of proof or numbers on this?

Nope, and you know what? PGI doesn't either. As I said providing just three examples of what PGI's raw numbers can't tell them. To know if it happened one has to be observing the matches. And based on player reports there were lots of players whom the observers didn't think played at the observer's skill level. This points to either deliberate actions, or the next example: Incorrect player rankings (elo).

Hobgoblin I, on 08 August 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Inaccurate player ranking? Is that also only an IS thing and you have some evidence to offer on it also?

I'll refer you to the 10,000 threads on Elo and how/why the numbers are inaccurate, but for starters I'll give you a few:
Players only have one Elo rating per class which creates a lot of drift/inaccuracy with lots of player environment changes;
Group player vs. solo PUG Elo. Group play (usually) leads to a better Elo because of better team work. Dropping into the solo queue (where the test happened) means an Elo that is probably artificially high.

Consistently playing the exact same mech, vs playing different builds or different mechs in the same class.
elo doesn't know if you are playing LRM boat Trebs vs a Meta Shadowhawk. To the elo ranking they are the exact same because they are both mediums and share the same elo. Anyone who things they perform the same is deluding themselves again - thus the Elo is wrong until the number of matches played on that config normalize.

And again - PGI can't give you these numbers either they just have the players elo for the match.

Hobgoblin I, on 08 August 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Off peak play times...good clan pilots play at off peak times but good IS pilots don't?

There is no question the pool of players is lower off-peak, by definition. It may not be a representational sample.

Like I said before, there is some validity to the data, but it's also horrendously flawed because they don't have the right controls on the data. There are lots of other values that were not controlled for that pose problems, I just used some well known ones as examples.
I'm all for testing, but flawed data leads to flawed conclusions, which leads to mistaken "balance" fixes. <cough>C-ERLL ghost heat</cough>

Edited by EgoSlayer, 08 August 2014 - 05:02 PM.

[Creovex]

I continue to support that their reliance on the MM ELO as "gospel" regarding playerskill and balanced gameplay is BS.

-Clans mechs can lonewolf (pug problem...rambo) and recover in a match due to range, IS can not.
-Suggestion.... edit JUST IS DHS values and I have a strong suspicion we would see really balance. Forget everything else...

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

[1453 R]

Jman5, on 08 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

But seriously, if you want to discuss individual balance decisions this is probably not the best thread for it. Despite what you and others here may think of me, I did say in the balance feedback thread that while I agree a nerf was in order, the Clan ER LL likely went too far. I also said that any Clan ER LL beam duration should probably be met with a similar beam duration increase on the IS ER LL. I am not out to get you or any clan players. All I'm interested in is finding a way to make the game fun, fair, and competitive for both Inner Sphere and Clan mechs across all the different chassis.

Unfortunately, the (large) majority of PRANA PLZ NERF players aren’t looking for a fun, fair, and competitive game between the two sides. They’re looking to grind the boot heel on all those dirty P2W-ing Clan pilots who’ve been Ruining Their Game™ since June 17^th.

While my own temper has been getting the better of me in recent days, I’m also of the camp that honestly believes some un-nerfs are in order, as much as some trimming up of overperforming Clan gear. IS lasers could all lose a point of heat across the board, the IS ERPPC could probably stand to lose a couple-three points of heat given its obvious woeful inferiority to the C-ERPPC, and pulse lasers have needed looked at for as long as I can remember. If your side of the divide had 0.4s burn time pulse lasers it’d be an awfully attractive slugfest-range option for putting quick hitscan damage on target and slicing off wounded components, and if your lasers generated significantly less heat than Clan lasers you’d have options for pressing your advantage in a long-haul engagement – or on hot maps.

Like I said in one of the other recent threads to pop up here, my initial list of Ideal Fixes is mostly slicing off a point of heat across all IS lasers, knocking the C-ERML down a point of damage as much as I absolutely hate doing that, C-ERPPC up to 5s cycle time while the IS-ERPPC goes down to 12 or so heat rather than 15 on the same 4s cycle time, and ixnay the charge delay on the IS Gauss rifle. Emphasize the Inner Sphere’s facetime advantages, give them better heat profiles and thus DPS in the brawls, and slow down Clan particannon suppression at a distance. All relatively simple/moderate changes that, and here’s the big thing…could be easily tested and adjusted/reverted if they didn’t work out as intended.

Since, y’know, most of these are IS buffs rather than Clan nerfs and can thus be fiddled with and adjusted at a later date. Still don’t trust Piranha to revert any nerfs it throws it there in anything like a meaningful manner, regardless of tonight’s mistake correction efforts.

[IraqiWalker]

Hobgoblin I, on 08 August 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Oh come on...you just took the biggest advantage IS has over the clans, that being the speed of the light mechs, and suggested it was a reason why the clans won more often.

Sure IS derp lights can get killed faster but they can run circles around any clan mech. They are usually, from my experience only, the last mechs left alive in a curbstomp.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I was just saying that a derp light pilot dies much faster in an IS light than a clan light. I love my lights (My Com-2D has been the only mech that I have owned, and kept, since day 1 -more realistically would be day 4 when I had the cash to buy it-. In fact I just bought another COM-2D for Stock Mech Mondays). I love the speed advantage, and it offers great play. It lends itself greatly to the hit and run tactic that IS mechs can use very well against clan mechs. I wouldn't have it any other way. (I'm actually glad the Dasher isn't in yet. Hopefully taught some of the clan light pilots what it really means to play a support light mech. Instead of slap a PPC and ECM on it, and run away form the rest of the team)

My two favorite deaths of a direwolf were the one where I used my Ember to jump on top of a DWF-Prime on the test server and burn it to death with 4MLs into it's CT, and when I took my own Direwolf out, and got killed by a flamer locust. That one was ... special.

Anyways, back on to what I meant with my comment in question. The early deaths can usually strike morale rather hard, and the fact that there is no respawn exacerbates that problem.

I only got 2 matches in with this latest test, one where I was in my DWF (-Tourmaline- the IS team wrecked us rather well, they used cover, LRMs, and closed in on us to have a major brawl) and it ended with us winning 12-4, however, it was insanely close, Pretty much not a single one of our mechs had more than half weaponry active. We were all wrecked, and it was a glorious battle, both sides ended with GG WP All. Most mechs on my team were below 30% health. (I died in the brawl, sniper builds on a mech that can't relocate are sad in a brawl)

The second one I jumped into my Protector, and got ready for some clan busting. We actually won that one 12-8. It was on Crimson, and the team followed my instructions. We stuck to the urban north side of the map, and had a big brawl there. I sadly had a less than stellar performance there when I ignored my own instructions and over-exposed my mech. My juicy critted out CT got slapped by 2 dual gauss direwolves. So I ended up out of the match early, however, my team carried the win rather well.

I then had 2 matches in a row where all 24 mechs were IS. After that, I had to break to get some food.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

1453 R, on 08 August 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Unfortunately, the (large) majority of PRANA PLZ NERF players aren’t looking for a fun, fair, and competitive game between the two sides. They’re looking to grind the boot heel on all those dirty P2W-ing Clan pilots who’ve been Ruining Their Game™ since June 17^th.

While my own temper has been getting the better of me in recent days, I’m also of the camp that honestly believes some un-nerfs are in order, as much as some trimming up of overperforming Clan gear. IS lasers could all lose a point of heat across the board, the IS ERPPC could probably stand to lose a couple-three points of heat given its obvious woeful inferiority to the C-ERPPC, and pulse lasers have needed looked at for as long as I can remember. If your side of the divide had 0.4s burn time pulse lasers it’d be an awfully attractive slugfest-range option for putting quick hitscan damage on target and slicing off wounded components, and if your lasers generated significantly less heat than Clan lasers you’d have options for pressing your advantage in a long-haul engagement – or on hot maps.

Like I said in one of the other recent threads to pop up here, my initial list of Ideal Fixes is mostly slicing off a point of heat across all IS lasers, knocking the C-ERML down a point of damage as much as I absolutely hate doing that, C-ERPPC up to 5s cycle time while the IS-ERPPC goes down to 12 or so heat rather than 15 on the same 4s cycle time, and ixnay the charge delay on the IS Gauss rifle. Emphasize the Inner Sphere’s facetime advantages, give them better heat profiles and thus DPS in the brawls, and slow down Clan particannon suppression at a distance. All relatively simple/moderate changes that, and here’s the big thing…could be easily tested and adjusted/reverted if they didn’t work out as intended.

Since, y’know, most of these are IS buffs rather than Clan nerfs and can thus be fiddled with and adjusted at a later date. Still don’t trust Piranha to revert any nerfs it throws it there in anything like a meaningful manner, regardless of tonight’s mistake correction efforts.

Erase that first paragraph and this is one of the best posts in a while.

[IraqiWalker]

1453 R, on 08 August 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Unfortunately, the (large) majority of PRANA PLZ NERF players aren’t looking for a fun, fair, and competitive game between the two sides. They’re looking to grind the boot heel on all those dirty P2W-ing Clan pilots who’ve been Ruining Their Game™ since June 17^th.

While my own temper has been getting the better of me in recent days, I’m also of the camp that honestly believes some un-nerfs are in order, as much as some trimming up of overperforming Clan gear. IS lasers could all lose a point of heat across the board, the IS ERPPC could probably stand to lose a couple-three points of heat given its obvious woeful inferiority to the C-ERPPC, and pulse lasers have needed looked at for as long as I can remember. If your side of the divide had 0.4s burn time pulse lasers it’d be an awfully attractive slugfest-range option for putting quick hitscan damage on target and slicing off wounded components, and if your lasers generated significantly less heat than Clan lasers you’d have options for pressing your advantage in a long-haul engagement – or on hot maps.

Like I said in one of the other recent threads to pop up here, my initial list of Ideal Fixes is mostly slicing off a point of heat across all IS lasers, knocking the C-ERML down a point of damage as much as I absolutely hate doing that, C-ERPPC up to 5s cycle time while the IS-ERPPC goes down to 12 or so heat rather than 15 on the same 4s cycle time, and ixnay the charge delay on the IS Gauss rifle. Emphasize the Inner Sphere’s facetime advantages, give them better heat profiles and thus DPS in the brawls, and slow down Clan particannon suppression at a distance. All relatively simple/moderate changes that, and here’s the big thing…could be easily tested and adjusted/reverted if they didn’t work out as intended.

Since, y’know, most of these are IS buffs rather than Clan nerfs and can thus be fiddled with and adjusted at a later date. Still don’t trust Piranha to revert any nerfs it throws it there in anything like a meaningful manner, regardless of tonight’s mistake correction efforts.

-high five-

[BigFatGator]

1453 R, on 08 August 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

I’m also of the camp that honestly believes some un-nerfs are in order, as much as some trimming up of overperforming Clan gear. IS lasers could all lose a point of heat across the board, the IS ERPPC could probably stand to lose a couple-three points of heat given its obvious woeful inferiority to the C-ERPPC, and pulse lasers have needed looked at for as long as I can remember. If your side of the divide had 0.4s burn time pulse lasers it’d be an awfully attractive slugfest-range option for putting quick hitscan damage on target and slicing off wounded components, and if your lasers generated significantly less heat than Clan lasers you’d have options for pressing your advantage in a long-haul engagement – or on hot maps.

Would be great to see some IS buffs vs. Clan Nerfs... completely agree.

[GutWrench32]

I see problems with this mismatch that will cause future problems with MWO if they are not resolved. I realize this is from personal observation and does not have numbers, but I think it is worth thinking about. First 3 observations, then my conclusions.

• In playing public matches, I see the majority of the time the IS Mechs are destroyed and the end game is Clan Mechs vs Clan Mechs.
  
• I have a friend who is an highly skilled pilot (I am not). He does not have Clan Mechs and he is talking about leaving MWO because the game has become unfair. Before the Clan Mechs came he was a frequent survivor, since then it is rare he survives battles.
  
• I convinced someone who had not played MWO before to join and play. He played it for about a week and quit. He said he has played a lot of online games and even though you are at a disadvantage when starting them, other online games encouraged new users, by finding ways to let them be somewhat successful while learning, but he felt he had no chance at all when Clan Mechs were in the battle.

My conclusion is this game, like all games needs new players and others that are sticking with it to survive long term. With the points listed above, I think if it is not changed, MWO will loose most of the non-Clan players in a short time. If enough people leaving MWO voice there dislike, there will be less new players. MWO will soon be only existing Clan players with very little in the way of new or continuing non-Clan players. I doubt MWO survives if that happens.

[Sephlock]

GutWrench32, on 08 August 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I see problems with this mismatch that will cause future problems with MWO if they are not resolved. I realize this is from personal observation and does not have numbers, but I think it is worth thinking about. First 3 observations, then my conclusions.

• In playing public matches, I see the majority of the time the IS Mechs are destroyed and the end game is Clan Mechs vs Clan Mechs.
  
• I have a friend who is an highly skilled pilot (I am not). He does not have Clan Mechs and he is talking about leaving MWO because the game has become unfair. Before the Clan Mechs came he was a frequent survivor, since then it is rare he survives battles.
  
• I convinced someone who had not played MWO before to join and play. He played it for about a week and quit. He said he has played a lot of online games and even though you are at a disadvantage when starting them, other online games encouraged new users, by finding ways to let them be somewhat successful while learning, but he felt he had no chance at all when Clan Mechs were in the battle.

My conclusion is this game, like all games needs new players and others that are sticking with it to survive long term. With the points listed above, I think if it is not changed, MWO will loose most of the non-Clan players in a short time. If enough people leaving MWO voice there dislike, there will be less new players. MWO will soon be only existing Clan players with very little in the way of new or continuing non-Clan players. I doubt MWO survives if that happens.

My solution: Give new players Clan mechs .

Everybody wins!

Lets say... no one who shares an IP with someone who currently has an account can make a new account and get Clan mechs unless they already have them!

That wouldn't be perfect but it'd be a start!

[IraqiWalker]

GutWrench32, on 08 August 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I see problems with this mismatch that will cause future problems with MWO if they are not resolved. I realize this is from personal observation and does not have numbers, but I think it is worth thinking about. First 3 observations, then my conclusions.

• In playing public matches, I see the majority of the time the IS Mechs are destroyed and the end game is Clan Mechs vs Clan Mechs.
  
• I have a friend who is an highly skilled pilot (I am not). He does not have Clan Mechs and he is talking about leaving MWO because the game has become unfair. Before the Clan Mechs came he was a frequent survivor, since then it is rare he survives battles.
  
• I convinced someone who had not played MWO before to join and play. He played it for about a week and quit. He said he has played a lot of online games and even though you are at a disadvantage when starting them, other online games encouraged new users, by finding ways to let them be somewhat successful while learning, but he felt he had no chance at all when Clan Mechs were in the battle.

My conclusion is this game, like all games needs new players and others that are sticking with it to survive long term. With the points listed above, I think if it is not changed, MWO will loose most of the non-Clan players in a short time. If enough people leaving MWO voice there dislike, there will be less new players. MWO will soon be only existing Clan players with very little in the way of new or continuing non-Clan players. I doubt MWO survives if that happens.

I understand some of the points you're making, and new player retention is a huge problem that the entire community has been trying to fix. The game has a very steep learning curve and the way it's set up, doesn't really help with that.

Most people don't even know that there are over a dozen video tutorials on this website made by PGI and NGNG to help new players with the game. Probably because they aren't really shown that well, and new players don't see them.

However, in coordinated play clan mechs don't offer a real advantage, only in solo play where there is little coordination. As such the fact that a team based game has to be balanced around solo play is just idiotic to the extreme.

Instead, the game should focus more on making coordination easier.

In my elo tier (mind you, I'm not a great player), we had little trouble dealing with clan mechs in IS mechs (part of my advantage against clan mechs is that I have some and know their weaknesses better than most number crunchers). My friends and I adapted to the game, we knew where the advantages and disadvantages lay.

The most common strategy used by 99% of the player base in solo drops is long range poking, and then closing the distance. That is pretty much a death sentence against the clans. As they excel at that. However, what we did is actually rely on close range, fast fire weapons, and pinpoint front loaded damage. Clan mechs want us to stay away from them, we want to get close to them.

Clans win at damage over time and long range engagements, while Inner Sphere mechs win at short range engagements, and pinpoint front loaded damage. We focus on that. In communicated play, the game is a lot more fun, and there is infinitely more tactical nuance to it. In communicated play is where the clans don't really show a big advantage.

Also, no I'm not saying that if an IS team is communicating and the clan team had no communication IS would win. No, I'm saying with proper communication on both sides, proper tactics, and players of equal skill on both sides, it's a 50/50 who wins. Or almost a 50/50.


Also, your account has only been active for today. How is it that you have been playing this game and know so much? (I'm wondering what your real account is, since this is clearly not your real account)

Sephlock, on 08 August 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

My solution: Give new players Clan mechs .

Everybody wins!

Lets say... no one who shares an IP with someone who currently has an account can make a new account and get Clan mechs unless they already have them!

That wouldn't be perfect but it'd be a start!

How about something easier?

Clan trial mechs.

If they had implemented that, this flustercuck would've been avoided, and most of the whiners would've been shut up.

[GutWrench32]

Hi IraqiWalker. I went to my profile page to see why it could be saying I am only 1 day old. It turns out I have 2 profiles, a standard profile and a Forum Profile. My forum profile is only 1 day old because this is the first time I have logged in when reading posts. If you do not post you do not have to log in and today was my first post. My standard profile does not say how old it is, but I have been playing MWO for around 3-4 months.

[Hardac]

Tynan, on 08 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

I still can't wait for all of the "clans are OP" people to realize that Timbie =/= Clans as a whole when they pick up Adders and Summoners. Consistent nerfing of Clan weapons is going to just end up making the quality Clan chassis average and the rest (read: most of them) utterly inferior due to being locked into no endo / slow engine, etc.

This is exactly my point. The foamy mouthed anti-clanner crowd doesn't seem to realize that the trouble from clans is coming from two specific chassis. The Timber and Direwolf (to a lesser extent) are over-performing. These weapon nerfs are lazy and bad game balancing.

[TLBFestus]

GutWrench32, on 08 August 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

• I convinced someone who had not played MWO before to join and play. He played it for about a week and quit. He said he has played a lot of online games and even though you are at a disadvantage when starting them, other online games encouraged new users, by finding ways to let them be somewhat successful while learning, but he felt he had no chance at all when Clan Mechs were in the battle.

IraqiWalker, on 08 August 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Most people don't even know that there are over a dozen video tutorials on this website made by PGI and NGNG to help new players with the game. Probably because they aren't really shown that well, and new players don't see them

These comments lead to a slight derailment of this thread, but are very pertinent to the long-term survival of this game.

The New Player experience SUCKS DONKEY BALLS. The "tutorial" videos are weak, at best for introducing new players to the game.


Honestly at this point, having been here a long time, I still find it amazing that the Devs give a rats patootie about new players. I'm sure they do, because to do otherwise is just lunacy, but for some reason they seem to have blinders on with respect to this issue.

In the end it doesn't matter what weapon they tweak, what mech they nerf, if they don't attract a steady flow of new players with a reasonable percentage of retention, and a lower ( but very significant) percentage of those that convert to "spenders".
Without that flow, the game withers and dies.

My proposals;

• Cadet bonus should go to 50 games and/or the player should be GIVEN their c-bills AND a new mech to call their own. I don't care if they can choose from all variants or are given a limited choice, but GIVE THEM A MECH and cash to kit it out and then they will experience "OWNERSHIP.
  
• Allow them a limited time for a "refund" on their choice, say 24-48 hours and after that, it's permanent. Why? Because the UI isn't USER friendly. Variants and hard-points are not easily understood and even experienced BT players can make the wrong choice. it's not amply evident what the difference between a HBK-4G and HBK-4P is. Let them make a mistake and correct it. IT DOESN'T COST PGI A FRIKIN' DIME TO DO THIS.
  
• They need to find a way to introduce a New player Queue during the Cadet experience. Give them matches in which they can stumble and bumble around just like their opponents before being thrown into the deep end. Right now its' "25 games and Good luck, you are on your own sucker!".

Because really, this whole argument is a big waste of time if the game continues to "muddle" along. I know that for the Vets and the Hardcore player that arguing the risk/benefits of 0.1 damage, 0.5 heat, FLD vs DoT is a big deal, but its not to the new player.


They need to get comfortable, to get a grasp on the game mechanics before they will be "retained". Given this time you have a better chance of getting converts who will get into the finer points of the game. See, we used to have something called SINGLE PLAYER that allowed us to get comfortable and confident with a game, but we don't have that with MWO.

I still remember my first MP experience ( HomeWorld Cataclysm), after wiping the floor with the SP AI. I truly felt sorry for the poor scmucks I was up against in my first MP game. That was, until it started and I had my arse handed to me. Keep in mind that was WITH me knowing a lot about the mechanics of the game.

MWO does not have that and they need to find something else, like I proposed above, to make up for it.


OK....go back to your ranting about the latest crisis.

Edited by TLBFestus, 08 August 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[ThermidorFallen]

TLBFestus, on 08 August 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Spoiler

These comments lead to a slight derailment of this thread, but are very pertinent to the long-term survival of this game.
The New Player experience SUCKS DONKEY BALLS.

Honestly at this point, having been here a long time, I still find it amazing that the Devs give a rats patootie about new players. I'm sure they do, because to do otherwise is just lunacy, but for some reason they seem to have blinders on with respect to this issue.
In the end it doesn't matter what weapon they tweak, what mech they nerf, if they don't attract a steady flow of new players with a reasonable percentage of retention, and a lower ( but very significant) percentage of those that convert to "spenders".
Without that flow, the game withers and dies.
My proposals;
Cadet bonus should go to 50 games and/or the player should be GIVEN their c-bills AND a new mech to call their own. I don't care if they can choose from all variants or are given a limited choice, but GIVE THEM A MECH and cash to kit it out and then they will experience "OWNERSHIP.
Allow them a limited time for a "refund" on their choice, say 24-48 hours and after that, it's permanent. Why? Because the UI isn't USER friendly. Variants and hard-points are not easily understood and even experienced BT players can make the wrong choice. it's not amply evident what the difference between a HBK-4G and HBK-4P is. Let them make a mistake and correct it. IT DOESN'T COST PGI A FRIKIN' DIME TO DO THIS.
They need to find a way to introduce a New player Queue during the Cadet experience. Give them matches in which they can stumble and bumble around just like their opponents before being thrown into the deep end. Right now its' "25 games and Good luck, you are on your own sucker!".
Because really, this whole argument is a big waste of time if the game continues to "muddle" along. I know that for the Vets and the Hardcore player that arguing the risk/benefits of 0.1 damage, 0.5 heat, FLD vs DoT is a big deal, but its not to the new player.

They need to get comfortable, to get a grasp on the game mechanics before they will be "retained". Given this time you have a better chance of getting converts who will get into the finer points of the game. See, we used to have something called SINGLE PLAYER that allowed us to get comfortable and confident with a game, but we don't have that with MWO.
I still remember my first MP experience ( HomeWorld Cataclysm), after wiping the floor with the SP AI. I truly felt sorry for the poor scmucks I was up against in my first MP game. That was, until it started and I had my arse handed to me. Keep in mind that was WITH me knowing a lot about the mechanics of the game.
MWO does not have that and they need to find something else, like I proposed above, to make up for it.

OK....go back to your ranting about the latest crisis.

You know what always makes me laugh about first time user experience? Where it is in 'The Plan'.

Edited by ThermidorFallen, 08 August 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

so are people actually surprised by pgi's "tests" 1vs1 with clan tech some of the time comparatively fielding more equipment than IS. P2w... is it really a shock after years of shoehorning and bandaid fixes that for a quick buck you'd fall to such a mess?

shame we won't get mastered abilities cut down or modules cut down or tonnage BV values or anyother MM balancing to keep away from vanila vs vanila faction fighting

just more hur dur nerfs cause as you can see that's all the talent pgi has to offer. just shineys for the cash grab and soon they'll all be of the same stale palor of everything before it.

you clan grab, thou art in balancing hell...



enjoy your loyalty points.

[IraqiWalker]

ThermidorFallen, on 08 August 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Heavens no, we're not the best and the brightest, we're just superior! Better dressed too. It's the tea you see, it infuses us with moral fiber that no other faction can hope to match! (Steiner gains some moral fiber though proximity). As we all know, moral fiber provides 30% more combat effectiveness than numerical superiority, technological superiority, superior positioning and greater logistical capability. Dual AC/20 Jaegars help too.

You sir are in the right state of mind for this game. Long live House Davion.

TLBFestus, on 08 August 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

These comments lead to a slight derailment of this thread, but are very pertinent to the long-term survival of this game.

The New Player experience SUCKS DONKEY BALLS. The "tutorial" videos are weak, at best for introducing new players to the game.


Honestly at this point, having been here a long time, I still find it amazing that the Devs give a rats patootie about new players. I'm sure they do, because to do otherwise is just lunacy, but for some reason they seem to have blinders on with respect to this issue.

In the end it doesn't matter what weapon they tweak, what mech they nerf, if they don't attract a steady flow of new players with a reasonable percentage of retention, and a lower ( but very significant) percentage of those that convert to "spenders".
Without that flow, the game withers and dies.

My proposals;

• Cadet bonus should go to 50 games and/or the player should be GIVEN their c-bills AND a new mech to call their own. I don't care if they can choose from all variants or are given a limited choice, but GIVE THEM A MECH and cash to kit it out and then they will experience "OWNERSHIP.
  
• Allow them a limited time for a "refund" on their choice, say 24-48 hours and after that, it's permanent. Why? Because the UI isn't USER friendly. Variants and hard-points are not easily understood and even experienced BT players can make the wrong choice. it's not amply evident what the difference between a HBK-4G and HBK-4P is. Let them make a mistake and correct it. IT DOESN'T COST PGI A FRIKIN' DIME TO DO THIS.
  
• They need to find a way to introduce a New player Queue during the Cadet experience. Give them matches in which they can stumble and bumble around just like their opponents before being thrown into the deep end. Right now its' "25 games and Good luck, you are on your own sucker!".

Because really, this whole argument is a big waste of time if the game continues to "muddle" along. I know that for the Vets and the Hardcore player that arguing the risk/benefits of 0.1 damage, 0.5 heat, FLD vs DoT is a big deal, but its not to the new player.



They need to get comfortable, to get a grasp on the game mechanics before they will be "retained". Given this time you have a better chance of getting converts who will get into the finer points of the game. See, we used to have something called SINGLE PLAYER that allowed us to get comfortable and confident with a game, but we don't have that with MWO.

I still remember my first MP experience ( HomeWorld Cataclysm), after wiping the floor with the SP AI. I truly felt sorry for the poor scmucks I was up against in my first MP game. That was, until it started and I had my arse handed to me. Keep in mind that was WITH me knowing a lot about the mechanics of the game.

MWO does not have that and they need to find something else, like I proposed above, to make up for it.


OK....go back to your ranting about the latest crisis.

That post was a great read, and I truly enjoyed it, and agree with it

ThermidorFallen, on 08 August 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

You know what always makes me laugh about first time user experience? Where it is in 'The Plan'.

Sad init?