367 replies to this topic

[SVK Puskin]

Discarius, on 11 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

funny enough... if the problem was they didn't want too much actions happening +1km between each team (russ' twitter), why didn't they just increase the base heat to ~9-10, heat multiplier to ~6-9 and decrease range to ~750-800m...leaving duration alone. Increasing the duration would just punish light and medium mechs at staring contests more than heavy and assault mechs and making it ineffective for brawling.

While i'm grateful that the limit for firing C-ERLL still at 2, the duration alone made my Adder's face black and blue. Also, i still got overheating with the previous C-ERLL's spec, in my Adder and Warhawk. Maybe i was too "trigger-happy"....

And...it's been bugging, i always thought that PPCs were long range weapons (as in specialized for sniping) with their high base heat and 10 damage...or was i wrong?

1. ERLLs are not for brawling!
2. No you are not wrong, PPCs are long/medium range weapons and range has not been change so you can still snipe but it is far more difficult now. Now it takes much more skill to be effecient with PPCs which i like!!!

Edited by ENS Puskin, 11 August 2014 - 02:55 PM.

[Ren Kurogane]

ENS Puskin, on 11 August 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

1. ERLLs are not for brawling!
2. No you are not wrong, PPCs are long/medium range weapons and range has not been change so you can still snipe but it is far more difficult now. Now it takes much more skill to be effecient with PPCs which i like!!!

1. mhm...my bad for thinking C-ERLLs are brawling weapons. But it doesn't change the fact that 2secs beam duration hurts light and medium mechs by limiting their build options and/or forcing them to be exposed longer with their thin armor. Plus increased base heat and ridiculous heat scale multiplier, i can't help but to think they really want to punish clan light and medium mechs, i think heavy and assault will just have to add more heatsinks, given their plenty weapon spaces and keep sniping from +1km. Wasnt too much action at +1km the real problem?

2. it's just the speed for ER-PPCs for both IS and clan don't feel right for me...while i don't use them that much (only 2 of my mechs use PPCs and ER-PPC). PPCs need ~1.27secs to reach max range, while ER-PPCs need ~1.7secs. IMO, direct-projectile weapons must need less than 1.5secs to reach their max range to be "effective".

it's not like i have hope for them after "module slots tweaks" patch, which was a blatant way to reduce variety of builds and C-Bills sinks anyway. It really demotivated me from mastering my mechs...

Edited by Discarius, 11 August 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Alexandrix]

Tried it.

Cerll burn time is ridiculous.
PPC speed is garbage.
GG.

[smokefield]

tried the cllas - beam duration is too long. was long even before but now it is ridiculous...and it is doing more heat also...
ppc speed is strange. i can avoid beeing hit at long range in my warhawk while i am hitting them with gauss. pretty funny. i wouldnt want to be on the other side though,.

[Gas Guzzler]

smokefield, on 11 August 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

tried the cllas - beam duration is too long. was long even before but now it is ridiculous...and it is doing more heat also...
ppc speed is strange. i can avoid beeing hit at long range in my warhawk while i am hitting them with gauss. pretty funny. i wouldnt want to be on the other side though,.

Yeah, the people that keep saying, "Oh yeah PPCs take more skill now its great" seem to not get that you can side step PPCs now because they are so slow. Not even skill anymore, just guessing what direction someone is going to go and hoping you guessed right, because if they decide to turn or stop running or do anything after you have sent your PPC down range, you miss. Pretty sad really..

[SVK Puskin]

Discarius, on 11 August 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

1. mhm...my bad for thinking C-ERLLs are brawling weapons. But it doesn't change the fact that 2secs beam duration hurts light and medium mechs by limiting their build options and/or forcing them to be exposed longer with their thin armor. Plus increased base heat and ridiculous heat scale multiplier, i can't help but to think they really want to punish clan light and medium mechs, i think heavy and assault will just have to add more heatsinks, given their plenty weapon spaces and keep sniping from +1km. Wasnt too much action at +1km the real problem?

2. it's just the speed for ER-PPCs for both IS and clan don't feel right for me...while i don't use them that much (only 2 of my mechs use PPCs and ER-PPC). PPCs need ~1.27secs to reach max range, while ER-PPCs need ~1.7secs. IMO, direct-projectile weapons must need less than 1.5secs to reach their max range to be "effective".

it's not like i have hope for them after "module slots tweaks" patch, which was a blatant way to reduce variety of builds and C-Bills sinks anyway. It really demotivated me from mastering my mechs...

Yes maybe 2 seconds is too long but you do not have to expose your Mech for full 2 seconds. When i play with RVN-3L sniper build sometimes i am not using the full 1 second duration it depends on if they know my position or not, well but ECM gives me cover from being targeted so if you want to snipe with CERLLs i would recommend you ECM Mech otherwise build a Mech for another role.
Well to be honest i like the speed reduction for PPC, ERPPC and CERPPC.

[Oni74]

PPC speed - change was too drastic.

• Should've settled for 1200m/s which represents a modest 20% change.
  
• I don't get the rationale for speed difference between PPC and ERPPC. Keep it simple and consistent.

CERLL changes - overall a poorly thought-out set of changes (see my previous posts about this at http://mwomercs.com/...82#entry3620082)
Changes should've been something like:

• Beam duration should stay the same
  
• Heat should stay the same
  
• GH mechanism should've stayed the same at 2 simultaneous
  
• Lower the damage by 10-15%
  
• Lower the range to equal that of ISERLL

[BigBadVlad]

Well I can't reply to any of the existing NARC threads, so I'll put it in here.

NARC could use some kind of mild de-tune.

The biggest problem is when you have one (or more) enemy ECM equipped light mech using NARC and if there is even just one or two heavy or assault LRM boats on the other team they can wreck mechs pretty quickly. I can only imagine "new" players who don't even know what happened.

Mild nerf, don't make it worthless like before when the beacon wouldn't last longer than 5-10 seconds. It should still hurt when getting narced but if you're not within range of multiple AMS on your team and even then if they don't have more than a ton of ammo, NARC and LRM can be pretty devastating on open maps without good cover (Caustic, Alpine).

I'd suggest reduced duration by a third perhaps (starting point)
OR
Bring back the ability to power down your mech and become invisible to the enemy for the duration of the NARC beacon perhaps
OR
For the NARC beacon to be active, give away the position and allow indirect LRM fire the mech that attached the NARC has to maintain a LOS contact (not necessarily looking at) with the NARC'ed target. This elevates the "risk" for the NARC carrier to hopefully balance out the "reward" for going out and NARC'ing the enemy. Maybe even give it a range as well, 1000 Meters? This might be kind of like how the C3 system worked where the NARC beacon would be the C3 slave and the NARC carrying mech is the C3 Master. Killing the NARC carrying mech also breaks the NARC beacon function for a team.
OR
At the very least if a NARC'ed mech can make it to within the ECM range of a friendly mech it nullifies the NARC effect. However an ECM equipped mech must turn his ECM into disrupt mode to counter the NARC beacon but then still shows up via radar like normal, non-ecm equipped mech.

Something, the ECM carrying light with NARC in combination with a couple LRM boats (or more) is just very devastating and pretty "easy mode" right now.

Edited by BigBadVlad, 12 August 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[Gorgo7]

ECM already counters NARC beacons.
The NARC will defeat a mech equiped with ECM. However, a mech that has been Narc'd and that enters an ECM zone has that NARC countered for the duration of his stay in ECM land.
I know this because I have Narc'd a mech and been dismayed when the Narc hasn't taken only to realize that the allied ECM has it beat.

Edited by Gorgo7, 12 August 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Ren Kurogane]

ENS Puskin, on 12 August 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Yes maybe 2 seconds is too long but you do not have to expose your Mech for full 2 seconds. When i play with RVN-3L sniper build sometimes i am not using the full 1 second duration it depends on if they know my position or not, well but ECM gives me cover from being targeted so if you want to snipe with CERLLs i would recommend you ECM Mech otherwise build a Mech for another role.

Then do we agree that 2secs duration maybe too long and it also limits the builds for clan's lights and mediums? i feel these "sometimes" happen too often in my Adder. That's why i said C-ERLLs' changes hurt lighter mechs and also limiting their builds options more that heavier Clan mechs. Out of curiosity, i compared IS-ERLL, IS-LPL, C_ERLL and C-LPL >>

IS-ERLL> 0.9 damage/ms - 0.85 heat/ms - 675 opt.range - 1s duration - 9 damage - 8.5 heat
IS-LPL> 1.77 damage/ms - 1.3333 heat/ms - 350 opt.range - 0.6s duration - 10.60 damage - 8 heat
C-ERLL> 0.5625 damage/ms - 0.45 heat/ms - 890 opt.range - 2s duration - 11.25 damage - 9 heat
C-LPL> 0.9077 damage/ms - 0.6154 heat/ms - 600 opt.range - 1.3 duration - 11.80 damage - 8 heat

What i see from these, if i take IS-ERLL as standard:

IS-LPL>
1.5~1.6 damage/ms - 1.2~1.3 heat/ms - 400~475 range - 0.6 duration - 9.6~10.80 damage - 6~7.2 heat

C-ERLL>
0.8~0.9 damage/ms - 0.9~1 heat/ms - 750~800 range - 1.5~1.7s duration - 12~15.3 damage - 14.5~17 heat

C-LPL>
1.4~1.5 damage/ms - 1.3~1.4 heat/ms - 475~525 range - 0.9~1.1 duration - 12.6~16.5 damage - 11.7~15.4 heat

(with Heat Multiplier IS=Clan)

C-ERLL and C-LPL's numbers certainly are bigger, but their duration + IS mechs' hitbox size + IS mechs' torso twist speed and agility will make them spreading damage everywhere and their heat makes them cannot be fired continuously, leaving alone their range advantage


*Be mindfull that i didn't take weapon pod's space on clan mechs while making these calculation, so it's possible that C-ERLL and C-LPL damage and heat will be changed accordingly.

**And i didn't include IS-LL, because i think it has no pair with Clan weapons. plus, i'm too lazy to calculate other weapons too (i.e med-las, s-las, etc etc)

***If anyone doesn't agree, please no f-words or QQ-ing. And i'll appreciate it if you include your reasons (and calculations too). Oh, can i have you guys' opinion about the ideal damage/ms and heat/ms for these 4 weapons too?

****ms stands for mili-second

Edited by Discarius, 12 August 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[Morning Chubby]

Wow, a 43.3% reduction in the speed for PPC's. Really hard to define that action as an attempt to balance the weapon system. I would probably describe that as dumping PPC's, and creating something more akin to an energy reliant AC/10 and just recycling the PPC's rendering. And the nerf hammering of the CERLL (that was gladly mostly rolled back), just wow.

I am relatively new to MWO, but was just about to pull out the old wallet and sink a bit of green into this. But now I am glad I waited, and now will continue to wait until I see that the PGI Dev Team has re-evaluated their heavy handed "Balancing" tactics.

[SVK Puskin]

Discarius, on 12 August 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

[/u][/u]

Then do we agree that 2secs duration maybe too long and it also limits the builds for clan's lights and mediums? i feel these "sometimes" happen too often in my Adder. That's why i said C-ERLLs' changes hurt lighter mechs and also limiting their builds options more that heavier Clan mechs. Out of curiosity, i compared IS-ERLL, IS-LPL, C_ERLL and C-LPL >>

IS-ERLL> 0.9 damage/ms - 0.85 heat/ms - 675 opt.range - 1s duration - 9 damage - 8.5 heat
IS-LPL> 1.77 damage/ms - 1.3333 heat/ms - 350 opt.range - 0.6s duration - 10.60 damage - 8 heat
C-ERLL> 0.5625 damage/ms - 0.45 heat/ms - 890 opt.range - 2s duration - 11.25 damage - 9 heat
C-LPL> 0.9077 damage/ms - 0.6154 heat/ms - 600 opt.range - 1.3 duration - 11.80 damage - 8 heat

What i see from these, if i take IS-ERLL as standard:

IS-LPL>
1.5~1.6 damage/ms - 1.2~1.3 heat/ms - 400~475 range - 0.6 duration - 9.6~10.80 damage - 6~7.2 heat

C-ERLL>
0.8~0.9 damage/ms - 0.9~1 heat/ms - 750~800 range - 1.5~1.7s duration - 12~15.3 damage - 14.5~17 heat

C-LPL>
1.4~1.5 damage/ms - 1.3~1.4 heat/ms - 475~525 range - 0.9~1.1 duration - 12.6~16.5 damage - 11.7~15.4 heat

(with Heat Multiplier IS=Clan)

C-ERLL and C-LPL's numbers certainly are bigger, but their duration + IS mechs' hitbox size + IS mechs' torso twist speed and agility will make them spreading damage everywhere and their heat makes them cannot be fired continuously, leaving alone their range advantage


*Be mindfull that i didn't take weapon pod's space on clan mechs while making these calculation, so it's possible that C-ERLL and C-LPL damage and heat will be changed accordingly.

**And i didn't include IS-LL, because i think it has no pair with Clan weapons. plus, i'm too lazy to calculate other weapons too (i.e med-las, s-las, etc etc)

***If anyone doesn't agree, please no f-words or QQ-ing. And i'll appreciate it if you include your reasons (and calculations too). Oh, can i have you guys' opinion about the ideal damage/ms and heat/ms for these 4 weapons too?

****ms stands for mili-second

Why ms?

[Jack Spade Ward]

CERLL are just useless now... 2 sec is just mad, 100% more time comparing to the IS ERLL for only 2,20 more damage????!!!!!
Sure the range is alot more than IS, but its clan tech, so its range needs to be better. Keep the 1.5sec, and increase the heat

[Ren Kurogane]

ENS Puskin, on 12 August 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Why ms?

Simply because sometimes (or even many times) i didn't use full duration (1sec) of IS-LL or IS-ERLL and IS-LPL has a beam duration below 1sec...so it's better (and easier) to divide their damage with a smaller time-unit and they have same base cooldowns too, so there'll be no problem i think

Edited by Discarius, 12 August 2014 - 10:18 PM.

[Mazerius]

Current 2 sec beam time on the CErLarge is messed up, lowers its dps to sad lvls. I realize that it can poke targets at extreme ranges, but just because the armour on your torso went yellow doesn't actually mean you've taken much damage. Seems to me people were just knee jerking to the fact that they took damage at all, not seeing that the damage was minimal.

[Alexandrix]

If they don't want significant dmg occurring above 1km.....why does virtually every weapon have double the range it should have????

[Ultimax]

ENS Puskin, on 12 August 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Yes maybe 2 seconds is too long but you do not have to expose your Mech for full 2 seconds. When i play with RVN-3L sniper build sometimes i am not using the full 1 second duration it depends on if they know my position or not,

You do understand that after ONE FULL SECOND the cERLLAS has only done 5.6 damage right?

So if you, with your IS LLAS, have to often cut short your one second beam, then that also happens when using cER LLAS.

If you only keep the cERLLAS on target for half a second, you will have done 2.8 damage.

Congrats, you have a four ton, 900m range small laser.



The two second burn time makes this weapon unusable.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 13 August 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[SVK Puskin]

Mazerius, on 12 August 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

Current 2 sec beam time on the CErLarge is messed up, lowers its dps to sad lvls. I realize that it can poke targets at extreme ranges, but just because the armour on your torso went yellow doesn't actually mean you've taken much damage. Seems to me people were just knee jerking to the fact that they took damage at all, not seeing that the damage was minimal.

Yellow, orange, red and armor is gone!

[SVK Puskin]

Ultimatum X, on 13 August 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

You do understand that after ONE FULL SECOND the cERLLAS has only done 5.6 damage right?

So if you, with your IS LLAS, have to often cut short your one second beam, then that also happens when using cER LLAS.

If you only keep the cERLLAS on target for half a second, you will have done 2.8 damage.

Congrats, you have a four ton, 900m range small laser.



The two second burn time makes this weapon unusable.

Another IS player piloting Clan Mechs, what a shame. Unusable? No, i still see lot of CERLLs on the battlefield.

[Ultimax]

ENS Puskin, on 13 August 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Another IS player piloting Clan Mechs, what a shame. Unusable? No, i still see lot of CERLLs on the battlefield.

I see them too, on bad builds.

I had a storm crow hit me with one, it was slightly more dangerous than TAG without the LRMs.