367 replies to this topic

[SVK Puskin]

Ultimatum X, on 13 August 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

I see them too, on bad builds.

I had a storm crow hit me with one, it was slightly more dangerous than TAG without the LRMs.

I remember a match in Caustic valey, our team had 4 remaining Mechs badly demaged from the battle and we were searching for the last man standing. It was a Kitfox with 3 ERLLs and guess what? That lucky mofo killed us all so CERLLs are still pretty effective on certain maps and long range snipping!

[Ren Kurogane]

ENS Puskin, on 10 August 2014 - 02:59 AM, said:

Guys you should reailze your faction loyalty, I see lot of IS players piloting Clan Mechs...

ENS Puskin, on 13 August 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Another IS player piloting Clan Mechs, what a shame. Unusable? No, i still see lot of CERLLs on the battlefield.

ENS Puskin, on 13 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

I remember a match in Caustic valey, our team had 4 remaining Mechs badly demaged from the battle and we were searching for the last man standing. It was a Kitfox with 3 ERLLs and guess what? That lucky mofo killed us all so CERLLs are still pretty effective on certain maps and long range snipping!

uhh..? Have you ever tried using C-ERLL on match(es) by yourself? Because i find most opinions from people who're victims of certain type of weapons used by skilled players are...not reliable. Also you sounded like you didn't play Clan mechs at all, let alone C-ERLL.

I'm sorry if i offended you. And, can you explain how "badly damaged" your team's mechs before this skilled Kitfox pilot killed all of you? I suspect he also used ECM build, just like a build you would recommend but unfortunately can't be used for other than Kitfox.

[SVK Puskin]

Discarius, on 13 August 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

uhh..? Have you ever tried using C-ERLL on match(es) by yourself? Because i find most opinions from people who're victims of certain type of weapons used by skilled players are...not reliable. Also you sounded like you didn't play Clan mechs at all, let alone C-ERLL.

I'm sorry if i offended you. And, can you explain how "badly damaged" your team's mechs before this skilled Kitfox pilot killed all of you? I suspect he also used ECM build, just like a build you would recommend but unfortunately can't be used for other than Kitfox.

Yes you are correct i am loyal to the IS and i am not going to play with Clan Mechs. Well i think without armor on most important parts such as Center torso or legs. Yes he had ECM.

[Bill Shakespear]

I've played with the C-ERLL a bit, and despite some success, it is now a very unwieldy weapon. If you need to react to incoming fire during the beam duration, you'll find yourself hitting teammates or putting on an impromptu laser light show. It feels completely uncontrollable. 1.5 seconds was a good sweet spot.

If the 2.0 beam duration is going to stay, we need some way to cancel the beam (perhaps a 2nd click to cancel it?).

I really think reducing the range and damage, and increasing heat would have been sufficient.

The PPC changes don't feel as bad and I think I can live with them. The regular IS PPC feels a bit too slow though, and the ER PPC feels borderline. Meh. I still think this really hurts mechs that rely on 1 PPC as their primary weapon.

[Ren Kurogane]

Bill Shakespear, on 13 August 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

If the 2.0 beam duration is going to stay, we need some way to cancel the beam (perhaps a 2nd click to cancel it?).

Having to click 2nd time to cancel C-ERLL...i feel it'll just make C-ERLL usage more problematic, same like gauss charging system. And also it'll make C-ERLL different from other energy weapons, in a bad way.

Bill Shakespear, on 13 August 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

I really think reducing the range and damage, and increasing heat would have been sufficient.

Agreed...

[Col Jaime Wolf]

nerf all the systems!

ok nothing more to see move along.

[Archon]

I appreciate that the ghost heat was limited to two again for the CERLL, but after playing with them I'm still finding a 2 second beam time to be excessive. It's really not worth using with that long of a duration. Please consider lowering the duration.

Please also consider repealing the speed nerfs to PPCs. They are now incredibly dissapointing. They are supposed to be the most powerful energy weapons in the game and already had sufficient balance changes where they were.

[Gumon Choji]

I do not know if this may have been tried but to ballance alpha atrike power but I have a novel idea. Dispersal inside the mech. What I want to convey is put a hard limit on damage from one target over a 1 sec period. if that source causes over 40 damage or 90% total in one sec one one location then damage is assesed to internals in the torso but spread equally and perhaps some lose of force. This would have the conesquence of making alpha hits to lights damage lots of components but the light could survive. This would also make alpha strikes hit assults insides more. Making a high alpha good at assult hunting which is why you need that much damage and keep light's surviveability higher.

A real cause of this could be that the mech is shooting through the hole another weapon created. Air does not take damage. But some exposed components do.





ex. ppc gause a whale. hits a spider. normally 60 damage. the spider is gone. Not much fun.
Vrs assult. This is a lot of damage but survivable.

to not make it a nerf but a redirection with 40 damage or 90 % smallest number being the max damage. This is the outcome

Spider does not take 60 but is left with a whopping 3 armor points in the location. all internals are red. Not a good place to be found in but at least it lets the light survive and play a little.

If the assult is hit it takes 40 damage outside and the insides are lit up with a chance of internals blowing up. This lets valuable internals be taken out and cause explosions if ammo is stored inside. Lights will rarely have this problem. This will also be particularly effective against clan mechs as their engine is different. Thus the scarry alpha will hurt XL IS mechs and Clan Mechs harder but let lights take one solid hit.

[Kyrdak666]

honestly, i would like to know why we STILL have to exit the game twice... unless we're exiting from a match... it's like PGI is saying "Rage quits, it's what drives our development"

Edited by Kyrdak666, 15 August 2014 - 11:12 AM.

[Master Maniac]

I should not have to lead a target that is bigger than my targeting reticule.

Seriously.

That is all.

[Reno Blade]

Master Maniac, on 16 August 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I should not have to lead a target that is bigger than my targeting reticule.

Seriously.

That is all.

For PPCs?
You had to do that before.
You even have to lead with a Gauss at 600+m range.

[wanderer]

I find for what I'm doing now, a Clan LPL is now a viable weapon. Shorter burn time than a ERLL, easier to hit with than a CERPPC.

Generally, it's also a good idea because with a CERLL, my Kit Foxes keep having to flick the sights into the air to avoid randomly burning people crossing my line of fire. On the other hand, dual CERLL's aren't giving me heat problems if I'm careful now.

Still doesn't address the elephant in the room- pinpoint FLD combo-blasts. This is the whole jump jet fiasco, ready to be repeated.

[SteelTantrum]

I have just played with two medium mech's both scored appallingly low damage and died very quickly thanks to clan mech alpha strikes. Last time I also tried my mediums exactly the same thing happened. I appreciate according to game lore the clans have the edge on IS tech BUT this is a game that is meant to be fun. All you feel like with IS mech's is walking target practice and it can't be fun for the clanners either. No I am not a new player and my KD ratio is reasonable but I couldn't afford the clan packages.
I have spent money on mechs and bays too, so why am I now a second class citizen ?.

[Reno Blade]

I recorded 6 matches (one on saturday and 5 today) with different Timber Wolf builds.
I'm only average and the mechs are not fully elited yet, but I still did around 500 - 850 damage with 2-3 kills.
That is still a lot for weapons everyone blaims to be useless.

http://www.youtube.c...F5IPuf-b2M5_4u5

Match1&2 are pug matches with 2ERLL, 2ERML in the arms and 2ERML, 2SRM6 in the torso
3 kills, 7 assist, 772 damage on Crimson Strait.
2 kills, 6 assists, 818 damage RC night.

Spoiler

Match 3 was another Pug match, this time with the old Gauss/2ERPPC meta. Gauss in the RA, one ERPPC in each Torso.
3 kills, 2 assists, 582 damage, but lost the game on River City

Spoiler

Match 4 I teamed up with my buddy Fused and we got paired with a 10man. I used Gauss, 2ERLL in the arms and 2ERML in the torso.
2 kills, 9 assists, 688 damage on Tourmaline Desert.

Spoiler

Match 5 I tried to use a UAC20 and 2MPulse in the arms with one ERML in each side torso.
2 kills, 7 assists, 524 damage on River City again.

Spoiler

Match 6 I still used the UAC20 build.
0 kills, 8 assists, 503 damage on Alpine Peaks.

Spoiler

Note: because there are a lot of threads about CERPPC, CERLL and the nerf, you might see this post posted in different threads.

Edited by Reno Blade, 18 August 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Newtype]

I've been trying to adjust to the 2 second and to be honest I'm not liking it now. I do believe that a nerf for C-ERLL was needed but I think they should've done it by reducing its effective range and/or its damage directly.

I do think the nerf was targeted so that it would lessen the damage it can deal during long range engagements and I do agree that it did that but it did kind of made it almost useless during Mid to close range engagements because of its beam duration.

Again, I'm okay with the C-ERLL being nerfed but I do really think that the 2 second beam duration is not the way to go.

Edited by Newtype, 20 August 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[I Peed My Pants]

Am i seeing this right? a ERLL with the damage on target output of a ERML?! after 2 seconds burn time, a ERML will have done less than 0.5 less damage than a ERLL, for less heat, and 2 fewer tons in weight... I really dont think extra range is a worthwhile trade off. 2 tons and a single hardpoint to gain .24 dmg per burn second...
The only time ERLL is now better than ERML is somewhere beyond 450m, or when your mech has few hardpoints (read, light/med mechs, who cant take being exposed longer anyway...).

And the ppc nerf... wow... rather than something sensible... like a 10-20% change and see how things go, or increasing damage in proportion to an increase in cooldown+heat (ie, missed shots = higher penalty), lets drop a stat by nearly half...

what the **** is with this game and its developers?

Edited by I Peed My Pants, 20 August 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[ToxinTractor]

So that large laser duration wasnt too bad.. But the heat nerf on it was a bit hard.. Just tried out a dire whale prime (All stock execpt for the LRM, put a narc in for funs) And holy ****. I shut down with just firing my four large lasers.. I know I likely shouldnt have done that but before you could get away with once for emergency.

Sorta feels like mechs like the direwolf suffered way too much from the ghost heat nerf though.

Beam length; Yes. Ghost heat nerf; Big no.

[Reno Blade]

ToxinTractor, on 21 August 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

So that large laser duration wasnt too bad.. But the heat nerf on it was a bit hard.. Just tried out a dire whale prime (All stock execpt for the LRM, put a narc in for funs) And holy ****. I shut down with just firing my four large lasers.. I know I likely shouldnt have done that but before you could get away with once for emergency.

Sorta feels like mechs like the direwolf suffered way too much from the ghost heat nerf though.

Beam length; Yes. Ghost heat nerf; Big no.

Ghost heat was too weak.
3cERLL only had a little less than 5 extra heat. Thats not even one cERML worth of heat.
Now it has the "propper" penalties.
Stop shoothing 4 CERLL together and you don't have a problem.
With the 2sec beam, you can shoot one arm with 2 and then 0.5-1 sec later you can shoot the other 2 in the other arm. That way you can shoot 4 of them in less than 3 seconds.

Other people learned to do this with is ERLL (like on a stalker). It's the same for the Clans, just a bit stronger, because they have a lot more DHS = a lot more dissipation and capacity.

[Ren Kurogane]

ToxinTractor, on 21 August 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

So that large laser duration wasnt too bad.. But the heat nerf on it was a bit hard.. Just tried out a dire whale prime (All stock execpt for the LRM, put a narc in for funs) And holy ****. I shut down with just firing my four large lasers.. I know I likely shouldnt have done that but before you could get away with once for emergency.

Sorta feels like mechs like the direwolf suffered way too much from the ghost heat nerf though.

Beam length; Yes. Ghost heat nerf; Big no.

Reno Blade, on 21 August 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

Ghost heat was too weak.
3cERLL only had a little less than 5 extra heat. Thats not even one cERML worth of heat.
Now it has the "propper" penalties.
Stop shoothing 4 CERLL together and you don't have a problem.
With the 2sec beam, you can shoot one arm with 2 and then 0.5-1 sec later you can shoot the other 2 in the other arm. That way you can shoot 4 of them in less than 3 seconds.

Other people learned to do this with is ERLL (like on a stalker). It's the same for the Clans, just a bit stronger, because they have a lot more DHS = a lot more dissipation and capacity.

To be honest, the problem isn't coming from ghost heat penalty. It's the beam duration that put C-ERLL damage per milisecond to nearly half of others Large Laser weapon types (IS-LL, IS-ERLL, etc). The reason why i write it as "milisecond" and not "second" is because sometimes i didn't get the chance to fire full duration of these weapons. It's better to reduce the range - damage and increase the base heat rather than increasing beam duration... <someone's been playing too much on training ground destroying the dummies, thus the nerf bat came

And yes, firing 4 C-ERLLs and not getting penalty is ridiculous, though i was thinking the GH multiplier around 8-10...not 13 like what we have now

[ToxinTractor]

Discarius, on 21 August 2014 - 01:23 AM, said:

To be honest, the problem isn't coming from ghost heat penalty. It's the beam duration that put C-ERLL damage per milisecond to nearly half of others Large Laser weapon types (IS-LL, IS-ERLL, etc). The reason why i write it as "milisecond" and not "second" is because sometimes i didn't get the chance to fire full duration of these weapons. It's better to reduce the range - damage and increase the base heat rather than increasing beam duration... <someone's been playing too much on training ground destroying the dummies, thus the nerf bat came

And yes, firing 4 C-ERLLs and not getting penalty is ridiculous, though i was thinking the GH multiplier around 8-10...not 13 like what we have now

Yea, I know its not some thing I should do. And I do agree you shouldnt be able to do it, but surely there is a better way to deal with boating large lasers.