207 replies to this topic

[Inflatable Fish]

IraqiWalker, on 02 September 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I think Bacon was talking about the Artemis, and the heat, here.

and how does that make it better?

[xengk]

After getting the chance to try out the other variant on PTS, here are my builds for the Vindicator.

VND-1R PPCs
Energy Support/Striker/part time poptart.
The mix of pin point and DPS weapon makes it ideal for guard duty against lights and medium, while still able to hurt bigger target.

VND-1AA 2AMS
The AMS Escort, packing dual AMS with 3t of ammo. Not as great as the Umbrella Fox.
A XL275 push it close to 100kph pre speed tweak, enough speed to get into position to intercept incoming LRMs.
The LPL and triple ML tend to discourage lights from hanging around too long.

VND-1X LBX
Not too sure what to do with the 1X.
Ran it like a ghetto Centurion for few match and went back to tweaking the 1R and AA.

ST. IVES' BLUES
My current favourite Vindicator, carries a mix of LL, ML and LRM for all range engagement.
Throw LRMs at the frontline while striding beside the team's whale and break stuff with the twin LL when finally arrive at the scene.

[N a p e s]

xengk, on 02 September 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

ST. IVES' BLUES
My current favourite Vindicator, carries a mix of LL, ML and LRM for all range engagement.
Throw LRMs at the frontline while striding beside the team's whale and break stuff with the twin LL when finally arrive at the scene.

How does the Vindi handle with a 200 engine? A slow medium can be a deathtrap but if it's still reasonably nimble it isn't necessarily bad.

[Inflatable Fish]

Napes339, on 02 September 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

How does the Vindi handle with a 200 engine? A slow medium can be a deathtrap but if it's still reasonably nimble it isn't necessarily bad.

this particular one handles similar to a Hunchbro with the same engine. so fairly decent, though I personally wouldn't stick anything smaller than 225 into a VND/BJ.

[N a p e s]

Inflatable Fish, on 02 September 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

this particular one handles similar to a Hunchbro with the same engine. so fairly decent, though I personally wouldn't stick anything smaller than 225 into a VND/BJ.

Ok, thats good to know since the Hunchback is kind of my reference mech for agility.

I have the Blues, but put a 250XL as soon as it was in my mechbay. Without the double basics it feels kind of clunky so hopefully the difference will be noticeable once they are unlocked.

[Inflatable Fish]

clunky? far from it. even with single basics you twist like mad and can shoot p. much behind your back. can't wait to elite it out.

[xengk]

Napes339, on 02 September 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

How does the Vindi handle with a 200 engine? A slow medium can be a deathtrap but if it's still reasonably nimble it isn't necessarily bad.

It is definitely slower than I would like, hence the JJ for hopturning.
Simply unlocking Basic is a big improvement, double Basic make it behave like a different machine altogether.
Still cannot beat hunchback's torso turning speed though.

I build this mechs as an (police) escort, I pretty much only need to go as fast as a heavy and hide in plain sight among bigger mechs.

Edited by xengk, 02 September 2014 - 12:01 PM.

[N a p e s]

Inflatable Fish, on 02 September 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

clunky? far from it. even with single basics you twist like mad and can shoot p. much behind your back. can't wait to elite it out.

Don't get me wrong it feels like a medium so its reasonably agile, but since all my other mediums are elited it just feels like the Vindi could be better.

xengk, on 02 September 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

It is definitely slower than I would like, hence the JJ for hopturning.
Simply unlocking Basic is a big improvement, double Basic make it behave like a different machine altogether.
Still cannot beat hunchback's torso turning speed though.

I build this mechs as an (police) escort, I pretty much only need to go as fast as a heavy and hide in plain sight among bigger mechs.

With the other variants coming out tomorrow I may follow a similar design philosophy for the Blues.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...517023c46dfd2d5

I've been using a tag in the head slot on my other Blues builds and I like it better than having a single medium laser. Tagging for LRMs boats can be handy and the rewards aren't too shabby.

Edited by Napes339, 02 September 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

My thought went something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06ec6f697bfd7c6

Keep it simple. For Mediums, I like them to be fast - they don't have the armor to stand a fight, so you kind of have to treat them like big Lights - they have to be able to get to cover, and in and out of fights, quick.

And if it has dual AMS, you run dual AMS.

[Bigbacon]

IraqiWalker, on 02 September 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I think Bacon was talking about the Artemis, and the heat, here.

no im talking about the elitest a-holes who just think they know it all and don't seem to care that people jst offer up their builds for others to see yet feel they need to rip them apart because they are just so much better than everyone else.

[Inflatable Fish]

you offer up your builds for others to see, you should expect criticism - note that it's been nothing but constructive, i.e. giving pointers on how you can improve them. it's not about showing everyone anyone's better than you, it's about helping you do better.

you need to chill your ego a bit.


edit: I've played around with different variants a bit more and I have to say I'm growing less impressed with the 1AA by the match. its hardpoints are just *poor* compared to the other variants - even the 1X.

so my updated SUBJECTIVE ranking of the VND models would be:

1SIB
1R
1AA
1X

Edited by Inflatable Fish, 02 September 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[N a p e s]

Inflatable Fish, on 02 September 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

you offer up your builds for others to see, you should expect criticism - note that it's been nothing but constructive, i.e. giving pointers on how you can improve them. it's not about showing everyone anyone's better than you, it's about helping you do better.

you need to chill your ego a bit.


edit: I've played around with different variants a bit more and I have to say I'm growing less impressed with the 1AA by the match. its hardpoints are just *poor* compared to the other variants - even the 1X.

so my updated SUBJECTIVE ranking of the VND models would be:

1SIB
1R
1AA
1X

With the SIB in our current top spot can I ask you what build you're running?

I want to like it but I'm still experimenting with different builds and nothing has really clicked.

[Inflatable Fish]

Napes339, on 03 September 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

With the SIB in our current top spot can I ask you what build you're running?

I want to like it but I'm still experimenting with different builds and nothing has really clicked.

this is the build I've ben using:

VND-1SIB "Coltrane"

with max engine, full jump jets and double basics it's a nimble little monkey capable of swift hit and run tactics. high heat efficiency coupled with significant firepower for its weight make it a very reasonable brawler, provided your SRM-fu is good. with enough practice, you can easily leg lights with your SRMs because your torso twist rate is just so damn good. the VND also boasts a very good pitch %, making it ideal for ambushes from above.

even before double basics, I averaged around 300 damage per match regardless of game mode and map, usually scoring a kill or two and plenty of assists. current top match for me was 644 damage and 3 kills (although we lost - barely! - on caps...)

[N a p e s]

Inflatable Fish, on 03 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

this is the build I've ben using:

VND-1SIB "Coltrane"

with max engine, full jump jets and double basics it's a nimble little monkey capable of swift hit and run tactics. high heat efficiency coupled with significant firepower for its weight make it a very reasonable brawler, provided your SRM-fu is good. with enough practice, you can easily leg lights with your SRMs because your torso twist rate is just so damn good. the VND also boasts a very good pitch %, making it ideal for ambushes from above.

even before double basics, I averaged around 300 damage per match regardless of game mode and map, usually scoring a kill or two and plenty of assists. current top match for me was 644 damage and 3 kills (although we lost - barely! - on caps...)

Thanks for sharing Inflatable Fish.

I'll have to give it a try but it does look promising.

[Orkdung]

My best damage to date.

I run the SIB with a Standard 250
3 Medium Lasers
2 SRM 6s' with Artemis

[JC Daxion]

Bigbacon, on 01 September 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

so I have all 4 variants now, 2 full elite, one on elites and one nearing end of basic level.

My only major compaint with the vindicator is its ability to climb hills. It seems like even the smallest of inclines just bring it to a halt.

Have you tried a hill climb module in it? They do all have JJ's too, So i am wondering if that is really that big of an issue? Not really sure how well they fly though.

I was playing around with builds, and found some interesting set ups. the one thing that struck me first was the engines. The limits are really spread out, 235, 250, and 295.. bit difference i think, but they do seem a bit slower than i thought they should be. It makes me wonder if the two with the 235's might be worth trying it out with an XL-210. (I owned this engine from my raven 3L and sold it cause i didn't think it was good for anything till i learned about the commando with ECM.. A mech i really would love to try and is next on the list for me to get) But i do wonder if 83.2 Is just too slow for this mech 11KPH isn't a huge difference, but it is a speed that many mediums, and even some heavies can keep up with or at least you will not be pulling away very fast. Makes me wonder if they really need a Maxed out engine XL, or maybe a 220 STD to really shine?

for me i really love the looks of them, that is the biggest seller for me, along with the hard point locations. But after playing with builds, I found it really seems very similar to the 55 ton wolverines, and really not even faster for similar weapon load outs.. I never played with a blackjack, nor really noticed about the speeds on them, but i really did think they were faster than they are.


Am i the only one that things they are a bit slow for the weight class? I'd think with a 235 they should be up around 105? Or am i just off on what the mechs are good for? It seems like a huge jump backwards from the 40 ton cicada, and the 50 ton mediums, some even end up faster than this 45 tonner. Still it looks like something i would like to try.. Just curious what others thought about this side of things

Bigbacon, on 31 August 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

what are you guys running on the 1X? I can't seem to find a decent build on it.

using 220xl, DHS, & endo I've tried

2ML, Gauss, 4 tons gauss ammo, srm2, 1 ton ammo. (this build works with SHS btw)

PPC/LPL , ML, AC5, SRM4, 3 tons ac 5 ammo, 1 ton SMR4 ammo, 1 extra DHS

ML, LL, AC10, 3 tons ammo, srm2 with 1 ton ammo, this I could swap out the SRM for a PPC or LPL

2 MPL, LRM 20, 3 MGs

the gauss build seemed like the best one with the PPC+AC5 coming in second. I want to an LBX10 but I think it will limit me to much with 2 MLs and some kind of SRM for back up.

edit
another I have to try is
2 ML + 2 AC5s

are you skipping out on JJ's on these builds? Seems like this mech would need them to shine. Just curious.

A triple Machine gun, with Pulse and some missiles was the one that peaked my fancy the most when i was playing around with them.. the others just feel like smaller wolverines with a bit better Hard point locations, being spread out a bit more. (love the wolverines)


I was kicking around this idea as an assault support mech, Get target range, and info gathering, Add in the MPL range module now they are a pretty good boost., (perhaps a MPL refire rate module when released too), and a couple consumables to round it off. . as 3MPL's do some decent damage, then you can LRM for added support

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9734a081a6b6d5e

Edited by JC Daxion, 03 September 2014 - 10:26 PM.

[jarien13]

When I played around with these on the PTR, the only variant I used missiles on at all was the -1SIB. Same weapon load-out as Orkdung used, 3 ML, 2 A+SRM. 14 DHS for 51% smurfy cooling efficiency, 3 JJ to maintain some mobility, run Endo+XL250+shave off one armor from each leg to squeeze it all in. When elited, I found this mech to be not only survivable, but deadly when staying with the group and picking off vulnerable mechs. In (or at least near) your team group, you can hide easily enough to not get focused down, and you can score some good damage, blast away open components and the occasional entire Locust, and rack up assists, if not score some kills with a 40.8 alpha.

I did play around with the other 3 variants and missiles just never felt right on them. I mastered my 3 Centurion's while running 2 LRM5's on each for harassment and long range assists, so I have no aversion to using LRM. One LRM5 does little these days, even for harassment roles, and LRM10 is so heavy and ammo hungry, I felt the tonnage was better served catering to the energy perks advantage. As far as SRM, It felt like one SRM pack, even a 6, just did not have the same effectiveness I could get from sticking to energy load-outs or for the -1X use of 3 MG's. The chassis has the reduced energy heat generation perk, figured may as well take max advantage of it, plus no point putting a Jenner build (ML's and single SRM) on a heavier, slower mech that can actually carry some laser tonnage. Gimme the LL's, ERLL's, and LPL's, maybe toss on a PPC or ERPPC, BRING OUT THE BIG LAZOR SHOW!

But I digress...

The -1X with 3 MG's was nice for critting open components, I did play a match or two with 2 MG and an LBX10 squeezed in, did not care for that as much (not that it was not effective). Always used dual AMS on the -1AA for team support in the LRM rich PUG-land, had a few different laser and pulse laser setups. The -1R had one long range laser arm and one short range laser arm, for better convergence (it did not feel well to have them balanced LL and ML on each arm. 2 LL one arm and 2 ML other arm just felt better). Mostly ran STD engine for some survivability and "lolzombie" (really, how effective is a slow 45 ton mech with one ML or MPL in its head and only a CT and one or two legs left...), but some builds just had to use XL to fit everything in and not run as slow as an assault.

All in all, it can feel rough while grinding through basic, but once you elite, it really seems to smooth out and feel like a decently effective mech for any medium pilot.

~signing off~

Edited by jarien13, 05 September 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Bigbacon]

JC Daxion, on 03 September 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Have you tried a hill climb module in it? They do all have JJ's too, So i am wondering if that is really that big of an issue? Not really sure how well they fly though.

I was playing around with builds, and found some interesting set ups. the one thing that struck me first was the engines. The limits are really spread out, 235, 250, and 295.. bit difference i think, but they do seem a bit slower than i thought they should be. It makes me wonder if the two with the 235's might be worth trying it out with an XL-210. (I owned this engine from my raven 3L and sold it cause i didn't think it was good for anything till i learned about the commando with ECM.. A mech i really would love to try and is next on the list for me to get) But i do wonder if 83.2 Is just too slow for this mech 11KPH isn't a huge difference, but it is a speed that many mediums, and even some heavies can keep up with or at least you will not be pulling away very fast. Makes me wonder if they really need a Maxed out engine XL, or maybe a 220 STD to really shine?

for me i really love the looks of them, that is the biggest seller for me, along with the hard point locations. But after playing with builds, I found it really seems very similar to the 55 ton wolverines, and really not even faster for similar weapon load outs.. I never played with a blackjack, nor really noticed about the speeds on them, but i really did think they were faster than they are.


Am i the only one that things they are a bit slow for the weight class? I'd think with a 235 they should be up around 105? Or am i just off on what the mechs are good for? It seems like a huge jump backwards from the 40 ton cicada, and the 50 ton mediums, some even end up faster than this 45 tonner. Still it looks like something i would like to try.. Just curious what others thought about this side of things




are you skipping out on JJ's on these builds? Seems like this mech would need them to shine. Just curious.

A triple Machine gun, with Pulse and some missiles was the one that peaked my fancy the most when i was playing around with them.. the others just feel like smaller wolverines with a bit better Hard point locations, being spread out a bit more. (love the wolverines)


I was kicking around this idea as an assault support mech, Get target range, and info gathering, Add in the MPL range module now they are a pretty good boost., (perhaps a MPL refire rate module when released too), and a couple consumables to round it off. . as 3MPL's do some decent damage, then you can LRM for added support

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9734a081a6b6d5e

I just never use JJs and it is mainly because I just completely forget that I even have them. Too many times in any mech i'd be dead or the round would end and then I would remember. Even if I tested at the beginning of the round I'd forget half way through so I just started dropping them on everything. If I can't remember to use them then they are wasted tonnage. Even things like the Nova that have them built in, I don't remember to use them.

[N a p e s]

Glad they got around to releasing the c-bill versions of these things. Picked up a 1AA this morning but haven't played it yet. Thinking of building something like this : 1AA

Taking advantage of this variant's speed to NARC enemies or provide mobile TAG support for LRM boats. It would be a little weak on the offensive front but it could be fun to play around with.

[CheeseThief]

This VND-1AA is quickly becoming my favorite Vindicator.

It pokes, it suppresses, it randomly turns up where ever it is needed, and armour is for chumps.