946 replies to this topic

[beerandasmoke]

Rolf underhive from the guy who cries because its not fair to fight on an even playing field.

[MischiefSC]

So, again. Simply avoiding any direct questions. I get why; there is no good answer. I don't know any of the people involved, I'm sure they're good people. Could be volunteers for Doctors Without Borders for all I know. There are however private matches and you can drop together in different groups in the group queue; sync in the group queue. Would be way more reliable. Syncing in the pug queue would only be beneficial if you want to ensure the other people involved are at a disadvantage. That's it. That's the only difference. You want other people there and you want them at a disadvantage.

I get that may not be the conscious decision but it's there.

[QuackAttack]

Sandpit, on 27 August 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

One thing I just want to inject

you two sound like Mud when talking about solo players. They aren't mindless drooling nose pickers who can't play. There's a HUGE difference in the type of solo team you get in the lower and lwer-mid range Elo brackets than what you get at the higher to mid-higher Elo brackets.

I know my light Elo is much MUCH lower than my Assault Elo. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of team I get when I drop in an assault and the quality of team I get when I drop in a light.

Or for that matte when you drop in the group queue it's not all teams of Chuck Norris in a mech. I've seen plenty of bad play in the group queue. It just depends on who you get. Sometimes you get a 12 man of Mariks drinking beers and laughing, other times some hardcore all meta team. As far as private matches go, you need folks on with premium time. I'll spend my cash on this game buying mech bays or a hero. Or adding a few days to our enjin site or TS server. But the c-bill and xp bonus is not worth the cash.

[TKSax]

Wow this thread blew up since I left it...

Kujdoon, does the seraphim plan on participating in CW as a group? Because if you do I would suggest dropping the group que as much as possiable...

[cranect]

Also the Seraphim does group drops 24-7 (not the same people of course) even when some of us sync others are dropping in groups. It just switches things up and adds in some randomness. Also the group queue really isn't all that bad. Sometimes I personally need a slight change. In the group or solo queue you can get rolled or roll. Heck I have seen matches where a solo queue would probably win. I know earlier tonight in the group queue our two lights and two fast mediums went to flank the enemy. Everyone followed and then stood there and didn't move. Literally they stood there for 10 minutes... I did more damage than 9 of my teammates in a locust. I know that sometimes though the coordination of the enemy in the group queue is too much (this normally occurs around 4am when my brain just wants to sleep or when my computer decides to say not today). For some people like Kjudoon the group queue can be made more frustrating by computer capabilities. The timidity of most players in the solo queue makes it a little easier for people with worse equipment to survive a little longer because the enemy probably won't make an organized move. If they do well then good for them and hopefully next game goes better. There is really not any advantage to be gained when we do the syncs as we either don't talk about the match, don't talk at all, or because if we do talk the other guys know where we are going (which of course is relayed through chat to their team). The way it is set up definitely affects how it works. We go to channels by map not group so we have had even 3 different groups in different matches. This leads to some confusion actually as you mishear where the enemy is from a "teammate" who is actually in a different match. So Roland please stop criticizing the unit due to one man. Kjudoon you do need to realize that some of these things that you have said could and have been taken offensively. Yet again I have to say that when you have 30 people dropping and a few end up in the same match it normally has an even split on either side. Roland I would agree that if it is just one on each side it is a normal drop. I would even go as far to say that as long as a group is on either side it is still even. Both teams now have the same advantage (this is assuming that one team does just rollover and die, which I have never seen). Plus I know even when there isn't anyone trying to sync we still have enough people to end up on the same side. I will drop solo in between classes for a few matches and if I end up with a clan member I will hop on teamspeak and coordinate. More just to talk to someone than anything else. In this situation would it still be cheating/exploiting because I happened to end up with someone I know? I am just trying to understand why everyone seems to have a problem with it is all without all of the insults. I know whenever I drop solo I will sync with a surprising number of people that I know through TS. So if we get on comms to avoid the clumsy need to type to communicate is this cheating? And if that isn't then how is it any different from doing it on a larger scale? I know there is the whole intentional vs non intentional thing but really it isn't that different. Or at least if the intent isn't to crush the other side there isn't a big difference. Most of the arguments against it seem to be due to the intention of stomping the other side yet just having 2 people with comms really doesn't make a huge difference. I guess it can depend on which 2-3 people it is, but still if there is an equal sized group on the other side then what is the difference in the advantage each team has. And mischeif the reason we don't do private matches all the time is that you don't even earn minimal rewards and we prefer to grind some while having fun. Second, in a private match you still don't get the whole randomness that can be fun. Third we do do private drops when people want to do duels, something ridiculous(20 lights with flamers vs 4 assaults for instance), or for our group that does a little roleolaying. The issue with private matches is that unless you have 24 people (which doesn't always happen) you cant do it without premium time (which not everyone has or can afford at the moment). And to let you know people do fail to sync every single time. They end up in some random match alone. Also as I am sure I misinterpreted the "never ever ever dropping when they fail to sync" part do you mind explaining that? Also with the wait times I know that even when I clicked the butting to drop 2-3 minutes before my mates I still ended up with them? Is this still sync dropping? We ended up on comms together, but I hit the button multiple minutes before? So does "sync dropping" really matter if this can happen? Well that's what I have for now. I would appreciate thought out answers without insulting people in them. Thank you.

[MischiefSC]

cranect, on 27 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Also the Seraphim does group drops 24-7 (not the same people of course) even when some of us sync others are dropping in groups. It just switches things up and adds in some randomness. Also the group queue really isn't all that bad. Sometimes I personally need a slight change. In the group or solo queue you can get rolled or roll. Heck I have seen matches where a solo queue would probably win. I know earlier tonight in the group queue our two lights and two fast mediums went to flank the enemy. Everyone followed and then stood there and didn't move. Literally they stood there for 10 minutes... I did more damage than 9 of my teammates in a locust. I know that sometimes though the coordination of the enemy in the group queue is too much (this normally occurs around 4am when my brain just wants to sleep or when my computer decides to say not today). For some people like Kjudoon the group queue can be made more frustrating by computer capabilities. The timidity of most players in the solo queue makes it a little easier for people with worse equipment to survive a little longer because the enemy probably won't make an organized move. If they do well then good for them and hopefully next game goes better. There is really not any advantage to be gained when we do the syncs as we either don't talk about the match, don't talk at all, or because if we do talk the other guys know where we are going (which of course is relayed through chat to their team). The way it is set up definitely affects how it works. We go to channels by map not group so we have had even 3 different groups in different matches. This leads to some confusion actually as you mishear where the enemy is from a "teammate" who is actually in a different match. So Roland please stop criticizing the unit due to one man. Kjudoon you do need to realize that some of these things that you have said could and have been taken offensively. Yet again I have to say that when you have 30 people dropping and a few end up in the same match it normally has an even split on either side. Roland I would agree that if it is just one on each side it is a normal drop. I would even go as far to say that as long as a group is on either side it is still even. Both teams now have the same advantage (this is assuming that one team does just rollover and die, which I have never seen). Plus I know even when there isn't anyone trying to sync we still have enough people to end up on the same side. I will drop solo in between classes for a few matches and if I end up with a clan member I will hop on teamspeak and coordinate. More just to talk to someone than anything else. In this situation would it still be cheating/exploiting because I happened to end up with someone I know? I am just trying to understand why everyone seems to have a problem with it is all without all of the insults. I know whenever I drop solo I will sync with a surprising number of people that I know through TS. So if we get on comms to avoid the clumsy need to type to communicate is this cheating? And if that isn't then how is it any different from doing it on a larger scale? I know there is the whole intentional vs non intentional thing but really it isn't that different. Or at least if the intent isn't to crush the other side there isn't a big difference. Most of the arguments against it seem to be due to the intention of stomping the other side yet just having 2 people with comms really doesn't make a huge difference. I guess it can depend on which 2-3 people it is, but still if there is an equal sized group on the other side then what is the difference in the advantage each team has. And mischeif the reason we don't do private matches all the time is that you don't even earn minimal rewards and we prefer to grind some while having fun. Second, in a private match you still don't get the whole randomness that can be fun. Third we do do private drops when people want to do duels, something ridiculous(20 lights with flamers vs 4 assaults for instance), or for our group that does a little roleolaying. The issue with private matches is that unless you have 24 people (which doesn't always happen) you cant do it without premium time (which not everyone has or can afford at the moment). And to let you know people do fail to sync every single time. They end up in some random match alone. Also as I am sure I misinterpreted the "never ever ever dropping when they fail to sync" part do you mind explaining that? Also with the wait times I know that even when I clicked the butting to drop 2-3 minutes before my mates I still ended up with them? Is this still sync dropping? We ended up on comms together, but I hit the button multiple minutes before? So does "sync dropping" really matter if this can happen? Well that's what I have for now. I would appreciate thought out answers without insulting people in them. Thank you.

I absolutely get what you're saying, I do.

Here's the question though -

Why is there a solo queue? Why was it created? What was the events that led to its creation?

Intent is great and it absolutely makes a difference. In the end though, if there is a mechanic in place to prevent something (groups in solo queue), isn't actively trying to subvert that mechanic... well, exploiting? If being in a group isn't an advantage than the group queue wouldn't be an issue. If it is an advantage then, well, isn't doing something to get around limitations intended to allow groups in the solo queue intentionally or not exploiting limitations of the matchmaker to get groups into the solo queue a bad thing?

I can understand why PGI is hesitant to make a ruling because there absolutely is a world of difference between a bunch of people laughing and playing around in TS and dropping solo and sometimes ending up together and a competitive team syncing 2-7 people to roll pugs. If they're using the same mechanics however to bypass the same intentionally created restriction then isn't the difference one of semantics?

[Roland]

Cranect, the question isn't really so much "why not private matches", as sure.. that's kind of obvious.

The real question is, if you have a bunch of folks on comms, why not just form a group and drop in the group queue?

That's what my guys do... If I'm alone, I play in the solo queue. As soon as there are 2 of us, we drop in the group queue.

[cranect]

I need to stop using my phone as it is to slow to stay up to date on what is being said. Well as I have said it is just an interesting mechanic. Randomness can be entertaining and enjoyable. I beleive thats the only reason some things are enjoyable (for instance even when they were 3 editions behind the orks in warhammer were fun due to nutty randomness). Mischeif I guess regardless of intention it would stll be exploiting it. The difference in the intention definitely is makes a huge difference though. If we are syncing but not talking about the game then if anything we will do worse. We have had matches where an interesting religious or current event topic comes up and while trying to think of responses to what is being said I have accidentally forgotten about my map and been instantly killed by ten enemies that "appeared" out of nowhere (I swear they teleported )
Roland the whole reason to do it over the grouping up is just to add the random element in. It is just a different way to play. Sort of meshing the differences in the group and solo queues. Something you have to try to understand I guess.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions. Keep in mind I do not have the answer to everything.

Yes it would be exploting. But more due to the first half of the first definition that states "to utilize" more than any of the rest in the case of my unit and MMM anyway
[color=#666666]
1.to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account:[color=#979797]
to exploit a business opportunity.[/color]
[/color]
[color=#666666]
2.
to use selfishly for one's own ends:[color=#979797]
employers who exploit their workers.[/color]
[/color]
[color=#666666]
3.
to advance or further through exploitation; promote:[/color]

This is from dictionary.com

Edited by cranect, 27 August 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[QuackAttack]

MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

The only reason to play in the solo queue is to play your group against pugs. That's it. That's the only thing it offers.

There you could not be more wrong for the vast majority of sync drops. I'm not looking to play with my group against pugs. I'm looking to play with my friends. With them on the same team, with them on the other team, or with them in another match. We really don't care. Tonight I had a solid hour and a half to drop before getting the kids to bed. I formed up a team with one other guy and we started dropping. Another friend joined in later and a fourth joined up as I left. And even with only a couple of people in a team if your playing with a build or leveling a mech it can take almost as long as a match to get ready for the next one. It can be a real pain with 12 folks. Who's in what class, let me alter this build to go better with yours, bathroom run, beer run. 10 minutes would not be odd by the time all are ready again and 20 or more common.

Other nights I can't dedicate the time to be in a team, I'll drop a match and then be gone for a while, so I hop on TS and chill in the lobby and solo drop. Sometimes I end up with a friend and we hop in the same channel. Often we are on opposite teams. Sometimes we try to sync and don't end up in the same match,other times we don't bother and still end up on the same team.

And then there are the silly community events that are hosted by various groups. Our Marik Monday Madness, the Steiner and FRR ones that I linked earlier. All of these have been very open about what is happening. And I'll be honest on Monday nights we see a lot of "O frack the Mariks are sync dropping together!" Usually followed with " And most are on my team I'm sooooo going to lose!"

Now I said vast majority of sync drops above because I'm sure that there are some people who attempt to sync drop with the intent of gaining an advantage in a match. But I'd rather face off against them then the losers who alt-f4 at the start of terra therma or the 4 guys in a group match that hide in a corner and come out at the end, or guys who use a macro to prevent their UAC from jamming.

[QuackAttack]

MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

So, again. Simply avoiding any direct questions. I get why; there is no good answer. I don't know any of the people involved, I'm sure they're good people. Could be volunteers for Doctors Without Borders for all I know. There are however private matches and you can drop together in different groups in the group queue; sync in the group queue. Would be way more reliable. Syncing in the pug queue would only be beneficial if you want to ensure the other people involved are at a disadvantage. That's it. That's the only difference. You want other people there and you want them at a disadvantage.

I get that may not be the conscious decision but it's there.

But I thought sync dropping = exploiting? Are other exploits OK in the group queue as well?

[cranect]

TKSax, on 27 August 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

Wow this thread blew up since I left it...

Kujdoon, does the seraphim plan on participating in CW as a group? Because if you do I would suggest dropping the group que as much as possiable...

Parts of it do plan on it. Most of us do not mind the group queue though. Some do mind it due to computer capabilities. I tried to explain this, but probably did a poor job. Trust me it can matter though. On days when my computer says no I prefer the solo queue too. Just trying to answer what may have been a question/criticism.

Also Mischeif and Roland if you guys wanted at some point we could try to communicate through TS if you think it might help clear things up a bit. Then post some sort of summary here for everyone else. I do appreciate the thought put into the last set of questions/posts and the effort to clear things up.

[Johnny Z]

Sync dropping is a plague on the solo queue at the moment. Its funny that most shooter games are plagued by aim botters tryig to ruin it, but this one, the aim bots are not so over powered so I see the use of sync dropping to ruin the game for others.

Only twice have i actually seen a friendly lance walk right by an enemy lance cutting down their team mates.

And yes aim bots are in game also. Seen a guy tabing targets plain as day and the same guy even had trouble choosing a target so it went back and forth all buggy like. How wide spread this i dont know.
Who is making them? Likely the guys that want to be hired to stop them. LOL

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Never said it was - my question though was, again, why? If you can drop in gropus in the group queue you can set up who's on which team. Also, plenty of people have premium time right now. Why not premium private matches?

The only reason to play in the solo queue is to play your group against pugs. That's it. That's the only thing it offers.

I'm not defending or condemning it, all I've done is point out that it's not illegal. I'd like them to clarify on it as much as you would. But, until they say it, it isn't illegal. I understand both sides of it, but I will say this. There has ALWAYS been a boogeyman. There's just a certain section of the players that absolutely refuse to believe that they're as bad as they actually are. They refuse to accept that they can't win the game all by their lonesome. They refuse to accept that they just aren't all that great at this game for various reasons. They look for any and every reason they can in order to excuse their as**s getting stomped regularly.
It used to be premades
Then it was 2 mans
Then it was new players
Now its sync dropping

If and when PGI declares it illegal and it gets stopped, they'll still decry "PGI isn't doing enough to stop it! I'm still losing". Even if and when PGI actually comes up with a way to prevent it from happening, they'll just move on to the next boogeyman.

[Roland]

cranect, on 27 August 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Parts of it do plan on it. Most of us do not mind the group queue though. Some do mind it due to computer capabilities. I tried to explain this, but probably did a poor job. Trust me it can matter though. On days when my computer says no I prefer the solo queue too. Just trying to answer what may have been a question/criticism.

Also Mischeif and Roland if you guys wanted at some point we could try to communicate through TS if you think it might help clear things up a bit. Then post some sort of summary here for everyone else. I do appreciate the thought put into the last set of questions/posts and the effort to clear things up.

Nah, I don't really care that much dude. You tried to explain, but ultimately I think you're kind of ignoring the impact that having sync dropped folks is gonna have on solo players.

In the past, it's possible they wouldn't even know, but at this point the unit tags are gonna give you away, and it's gonna create bad blood.

[cranect]

Ya it probably will. I know it was an issue in the past with groups syncing together and having basically a 12 man on one side and a group of 2 and a whole bunch of solos on the other. I don't think this is anything compared to that, but the same emotions attached to that time are still going to be there. I could definitely just be oblivious to the impact, but unless I am syncing I never even notice it. I am kind of oblivious that way. I do agree that people will see unit tags and whether they are actually coordinating or not it will probably create bad blood. You know with the internet if it can be misinterpreted it will be to the most severe degree. Ya I didn't think anyone would take up that offer, but no harm in putting it out there.

[p4r4g0n]

MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

-snip-
Intent is great and it absolutely makes a difference. In the end though, if there is a mechanic in place to prevent something (groups in solo queue), isn't actively trying to subvert that mechanic... well, exploiting? If being in a group isn't an advantage than the group queue wouldn't be an issue. If it is an advantage then, well, isn't doing something to get around limitations intended to allow groups in the solo queue intentionally or not exploiting limitations of the matchmaker to get groups into the solo queue a bad thing?

I can understand why PGI is hesitant to make a ruling because there absolutely is a world of difference between a bunch of people laughing and playing around in TS and dropping solo and sometimes ending up together and a competitive team syncing 2-7 people to roll pugs. If they're using the same mechanics however to bypass the same intentionally created restriction then isn't the difference one of semantics?

As you have stated, intent is critical and cheating by its very definition depends obliquely on the intent of the parties. In this regard, Sandpit is both right and wrong to say that sync dropping is not cheating as it depends on the intention of the people doing it.

For the record, I did sync drop back in the 8 man days twice and never wanted to try it again as it absolutely felt like clubbing baby seals. However, I have participated in sync drops in the Marik event and in the recent PGI event but the intent in those cases was entirely different. I was well aware that we could and did drop on opposite sides and I did my best for my team in-match even when I was the sole person in the group on the other side.

If and when PGI rules that such acts are against the CoC / ToS, I am perfectly willing to comply or suffer the consequences if past actions are in breach. However, until such time and with all respect to others who have different opinions on this matter, I absolutely reserve the right to choose to sync drop again if PGI has another such solo event that takes up days of playing time that I could otherwise be using dropping in a group with my friends (which is already limited as it is).

[cranect]

In the end I don't think sync dropping is as bad as it was, but it will still be viewed the same way regardless. Its just like the reason people load up on long ranged weapons in game. They want to fight from afar and there is less of a chance they will be hurt from further away. Even if they severely nerfed all weapons so that 500 meters was the max engagement range people would still fight around 500 meters I think just because they would be less likely to take damage and that is where they CAN deal some damage, but that is another topic.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

The no profanity guild does sync dropping? Oh ****, what ******* irony.

[MischiefSC]

QuackAttack, on 27 August 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

But I thought sync dropping = exploiting? Are other exploits OK in the group queue as well?

If everyone else is in groups it's not an exploit. You're not getting an advantage over anyone that way, are you? You're not intentionally circumventing an intentional limitation? The solo queue exists exclusively to prevent groups. That's the only reason for it. That's the only purpose it has. There is no other reason what so ever to have it - no purpose its serves other than to let people play without groups. The group queue, conversely, is a place to let people play as groups.

See the difference?

QuackAttack, on 27 August 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

There you could not be more wrong for the vast majority of sync drops. I'm not looking to play with my group against pugs. I'm looking to play with my friends. With them on the same team, with them on the other team, or with them in another match. We really don't care. Tonight I had a solid hour and a half to drop before getting the kids to bed. I formed up a team with one other guy and we started dropping. Another friend joined in later and a fourth joined up as I left. And even with only a couple of people in a team if your playing with a build or leveling a mech it can take almost as long as a match to get ready for the next one. It can be a real pain with 12 folks. Who's in what class, let me alter this build to go better with yours, bathroom run, beer run. 10 minutes would not be odd by the time all are ready again and 20 or more common.

Other nights I can't dedicate the time to be in a team, I'll drop a match and then be gone for a while, so I hop on TS and chill in the lobby and solo drop. Sometimes I end up with a friend and we hop in the same channel. Often we are on opposite teams. Sometimes we try to sync and don't end up in the same match,other times we don't bother and still end up on the same team.

And then there are the silly community events that are hosted by various groups. Our Marik Monday Madness, the Steiner and FRR ones that I linked earlier. All of these have been very open about what is happening. And I'll be honest on Monday nights we see a lot of "O frack the Mariks are sync dropping together!" Usually followed with " And most are on my team I'm sooooo going to lose!"

Now I said vast majority of sync drops above because I'm sure that there are some people who attempt to sync drop with the intent of gaining an advantage in a match. But I'd rather face off against them then the losers who alt-f4 at the start of terra therma or the 4 guys in a group match that hide in a corner and come out at the end, or guys who use a macro to prevent their UAC from jamming.

Your GROUP of friends. You can play with your friends in private matches or group queue. It's not like there is no other options.

Your justification for dropping in group in the solo queue is that the limitations (for balance reasons) in the group queue are 'too much of a hassle'.... so you sync in the solo queue because that's never a hassle? Syncing is easier than picking a different mech?

Look, simple questions:

1. Why is there a solo queue?

2. What is the entire purpose of the solo queue?

3. Why is there a group queue?

4. What is the purpose of the group queue?

5. Why are there private match options?

6. What is the purpose of private matches?

I see a lot of very shallow excuses for syncing in the solo queue.

Finally, Sandpit, you're really strawmanning that last bit. You're saying that there's no reason to say people shouldn't drop in groups in the solo queue because people would... .complain about something else? So can I respond the exact same way when you complain about lack of content and balance concerns? Why fix the heat/convergence system, people would just find something else to complain about?

That's not a legit argument and you've got to know that.

We either have a solo queue or we don't. It's that simple. It's not a hard question to answer nor an irrational one. Saying you refuse to answer it because the answer isn't one you don't like is indicative of how shaky the logic of the arguments going on here are.

Do we have a solo queue, yes or no?

If we do have a solo queue, why do we have it? What purpose does it serve?

If we don't really have a 'solo queue', then what possible purpose does it serve?

I'm 100% on board with the difference between intentionally syncs and people screwing around, etc. etc. At the moment I've been told by support that if I submit a report of someone sync dropping it'll be investigated the same as any other exploit like farming, aimbotting, etc. I've never done so. In fact in the 7 or 8k drops I've had over the last couple of years you could count the reports I've made to support on one hand and they were generally pretty serious dbaggery.

We've got CW coming in short order though and we've got 2 years of people in groups being dbags to pug players. Yes, a few bad apples spoiling the bunch and I'm a big fan of groups in general. The solo queue however was made specifically for solo players who for whatever reason, be that lack of time, desire to grind some quick games or just not liking to play against groups they've got a place to play of their own. Groups have their own queue and have CW coming which is pretty much rock solid playground for groups. Solos can sorta play there as filler but that's it.

If you take the solo queue away from solo players (which is exactly what syncing does, regardless of your reasons - you're making them filler for your private group games, you're essentially making them play with and against groups when they consciously chose not to by picking the solo queue) you're laying the foundation of drama that has no purpose.

There are tons of options for doing everything discussed here. MMM, group contests, killing VIP mechs in random teams, etc. Any and all of that can absolutely be done in the group queue or private matches.

The only thing, the one and only thing you can't do in private matches, is drop with a group of friends in a match otherwise populated by solo pugs and play your group game using them as unknowing and unwilling filler.

That's not cool. There is no justification for it. It is, in fact, more or less why the solo queue was created - to let people play the game the way they want without that experience. Sync-dropping is intentionally getting around that specific limitation, that direct designed purpose of the solo queue, for the express purpose of drafting solo pugs into your group of friends entertainment.

So, again. Do we have a solo queue or don't we? If so, what purpose does it serve? If not.... what purpose does it serve?

[Kjudoon]

cranect, on 27 August 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Parts of it do plan on it. Most of us do not mind the group queue though. Some do mind it due to computer capabilities. I tried to explain this, but probably did a poor job. Trust me it can matter though. On days when my computer says no I prefer the solo queue too. Just trying to answer what may have been a question/criticism.

Since you posted Crane, I'll add a little to this.

The Seraphim has 9 companies at various levels of play. They group drop for practices and competitions as well as solo drops as individuals. We have a garrison force that also does group drops and solo drops depending on their desires.

Sync drops are occasional organized events or random groups you would normally find as PUGs anyway.

There is nothing unethical or immoral in how we conduct our drops and nothing different than what I've seen done in virtually every other teamspeak using unit I've been invited to play with in this regard.

It is clear that there is a very small very vocal minority that believes this is unethical or immoral, and that is fine. PGI has not made it against the rules, and as far as I know has even gone so far as to condone the practice by ignoring it despite the issue being brought forth in the past.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 August 2014 - 10:02 PM.