946 replies to this topic

[p4r4g0n]

Sounds workable but not sure how effective it would be against a large group as typically it is currently unlikely that anyone would successfully sync drop with the same people in 3 matches in a row as a general rule based on my admittedly limited experience. Might need to be extended to around 10 if you really want to stop a sync drop.

As to whether it is an easy fix, I can't really comment on that but given how many people seem to think getting getting MWO to work properly is easy or simple, I'd tend to think maybe not.

[Deathlike]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 August 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Of course it is!

I can only imagine what kind of sync is going on down there...

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

It wouldn't put you on the same team. You wouldn't mind, since you weren't actually intentionally trying to sync drop.

So simply having the matchmaker not put folks that are in the same unit into the same game really wouldn't hurt anything.

The only "exception" to this rule is if you decide to get an alt account that is unaffiliated to work around this. Then again, I can see mudhut on high alert on that suggestion.

[QuackAttack]

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

No, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Yep, This morning 1 out of 6 guys in my new unit happened to solo drop with me, we didn't even realize we were online together.
Imagine how often I see one of the 144 peeps in my friends list.

Edited by QuackAttack, 30 August 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[Roland]

QuackAttack, on 30 August 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

Yep, This morning 1 out of 6 guys in my new unit happened to solo drop with me, we didn't even realize we were online together.
Imagine how often I see one of the 144 peeps in my friends list.

If that guy had been put into a different game, nothing would have changed for you or him.

[QuackAttack]

MischiefSC, on 30 August 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

Could block people in the same group from dropping together - could simply check to see if two people have been in the same match in the last 3 matches and if so, whichever one has been waiting the shortest gets pushed to the next match (preventing anyone from lagging out in the queue) - if Elo and matchmaking allows. Obviously if someone hits whatever the tolerances for wait times and Elo matching gets dropped together.

There are a slew of fixes that would involve minimal effort to implement.

I have no issue with the idea of the matchmaker not popping two players from the same unit into a match. But that won't solve the issue you are looking to solve. Sure you won't see two FW-M tags in your match, but if somebody wants to sync with the intent of causing mayhem then they would all be lone wolves with no unit anyway. As far as keeping track and applying a filter to all the people you play with in 3 matches? That's 69 players. And take into account preventing all of them from playing with one of the 69 again. The match maker gets trash talked enough as it is and I'd hate to see the database try to keep up.

Anyone want to math the minimum number of players needed to play 4 consecutive matches with no repeating players for any of the players involved in those 4 matches? I don't want to believe I did it right because if I did, I'm pretty sure there are not that many active players. I really don't want to say over 300,000 players.

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

If that guy had been put into a different game, nothing would have changed for you or him.

And as he wasn't on TS nothing was different for anyone else either. Although we got the joy of seeing another unit member.

[MischiefSC]

70 players is enough to play 3 matches back to back without repeats.

Honestly?

I'd be happy with an official announcement that sync dropping is breaking the rules and can be reported. Even if it's only investigated in egregious examples that's fine.

Discouragement is fine. It really comes down to 'what is the point of the queue'. If it's solo players... then sync dropping is against the rules there. That's exactly the whole reason why the group/solo queues got created - to deal with sync dropping. Phases 3 and 4 are exactly what's being discussed as a way to stop sync dropping and groups rolling against pugs.

We're now in phase 4. I'm all for their being more important issues right now but a non-response is the worst possible answer. If the answer is 'Yeah, it happens and we're okay with it' then fine - You can get a decent estimate of relative Elo scores and with a bit of trial and error get the detail of drop order to best sync with in an evening and actually do so effectively. If it's not okay... then say it's not okay. Will people still do it? Sure but only people who are legit cheats. The current approach of yes/no/maybe is bad.

[Jabilo]

MischiefSC, on 31 August 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

<snip>

Spot on. Whether you think it is right or wrong and whether you think it happens or it doesn't, the reason this is a contentious topic is because once again the devs fail to communicate effectively.

They should make a clear statement of their position on the matter and if they say it is against the rules then they should properly investigate reports made by players through the correct channels (support).

If people knew where they stood then it would discourage at least some people from the practice and the problem (if it exists) would probably just go away on its own.

In fact with an ounce of common sense they could have anticipated questions like this on day one of the solo queue and given us some FAQ's right at the start. Communication 101.

[p4r4g0n]

MischiefSC, on 31 August 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

70 players is enough to play 3 matches back to back without repeats.
-snip-

Not up on the math but that number doesn't seem to make sense as it seems a little small. Could you elaborate please?

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Simply stopping folks in the same unit from getting put into the same game effectively stops it, and eliminates the need to try and worry about punishing anyone.

And if they're not in the same unit? Ee have several units at marik. Just because we don't wear the same tags doesn't mean we don't play together

[Sandpit]

So are you suggesting you wouldn't ever be put into a game with people in the same faction?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Blocking unit tags is a poor way to do it. They need to announce the rule against synch dropping then just track the drops looking for patterns of drop timing. You will have some noise when players end up on two or more matches in a row but when you see multiple attempts by the same parties it would be obvious what they are doing.

Then just make sure that factions know that sponsoring or allowing parties to arrange synchs will result in sanctions against the faction.

not difficult in the least.

First though they just need to rule on the practice to silence those who proclaim skirting the intent by twisting the legality will not be tolerated.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 31 August 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Blocking unit tags is a poor way to do it. They need to announce the rule against synch dropping then just track the drops looking for patterns of drop timing. You will have some noise when players end up on two or more matches in a row but when you see multiple attempts by the same parties it would be obvious what they are doing.

Then just make sure that factions know that sponsoring or allowing parties to arrange synchs will result in sanctions against the faction.

not difficult in the least.

First though they just need to rule on the practice to silence those who proclaim skirting the intent by twisting the legality will not be tolerated.

And if they don't rule the way you want them to?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 31 August 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

And if they don't rule the way you want them to?

I go sailing. Its a win win either way.[redacted]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 31 August 2014 - 03:41 AM.
Redacted unconstructive comment

[Sandpit]

p4r4g0n, on 31 August 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

Not up on the math but that number doesn't seem to make sense as it seems a little small. Could you elaborate please?

24 per match 3 matches

Mudhutwarrior, on 31 August 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

I go sailing. Its a win win either way. [redacted]

Smh

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 31 August 2014 - 03:42 AM.
Redacted unconstructive quote

[Mudhutwarrior]

fail.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 31 August 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

fail.

What's a fail?

[Mudhutwarrior]

If you have to ask.....

[DaZur]

This entire circular argument discussion borders so tightly on Chicken Little hysterics is almost comical....

[Mudhutwarrior]

DaZur, on 31 August 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

This entire circular argument discussion borders so tightly on Chicken Little hysterics is almost comical....

Of course you actually think people believe that? Keep trying its fun to watch.

[Nick Makiaveli]

p4r4g0n, on 30 August 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

So the solution is to add another filter to the matchmaker that prevents those with same unit tags ever being in the same solo match which then could lead to complaints about long waiting times thus requiring PGI to further reduce the time delay for the safety valves to kick in thus resulting in further complaints about imbalanced matches?

And people get indignant when Niko mentions that PGI staff laugh themselves silly at facepalm worthy suggestions.

On another note, please stop going round and round repeating essentially the same comments ad nauseam. If you guys want to keep this topic current, then just post NEW suggestions for discussion instead of reheated leftovers from the day before.

What he said.

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

If such a filter would have an impact on search times, that would suggest that folks were sync dropping into essentially every game.

Stop and think on what you just said. See it? You are equating sync dropping with units solo dropping and randomly winding up in the same match on the same side.

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

If you are in a unit, and your guys are online... then you drop with your guys.

That's kind of the point of being in a unit.

Seriously? Now you want to dictate how we play? To hell with those who want to test a new build, or run a joke build, or may grab family aggro any minute and don't want to leave actual friends in a bind? Or people who just don't feel chatty at the moment?

MischiefSC, on 31 August 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

Honestly?

I'd be happy with an official announcement that sync dropping is breaking the rules and can be reported. Even if it's only investigated in egregious examples that's fine.

Seriously? Paul said it wasn't a punishable offense. Maybe educate yourself before you jump into the debate?

Lastly, once CW arrives, given that last we heard Merc units would capture planets for Houses with their units and LW as backup, quite likely to much more reason to drop in the CW matches than to drop in what will presumably be just skirmishes for XP/C-bills.

So maybe chill with the hysteria a bit?