101 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

fresh assault mech at the end of a match is a waste of 80+ tons.

you should meat shield at least a little bit - when your team is dead you know how long you will survive alone at your speed with your size anyway?

about 5 seconds.

this is why assault mechs dont stand on the back unless you're a PPC awesome that secures the back line and moves up and down the team's formation - or if you are a stalker with SOME lrm but also ppcs or ERLLs

battlemaster is good fire support but i'd rather have anything else in my team because at the end of the match they are always in pristine condition and die in 10 seconds alone without having used their armor to soak shots that may or may not one shot your team's spider

[Thorqemada]

Meatshields do not work - Firepower is superior to Armor and the only way to go is to stay back in Cover and LRM, Snipe or be a Gunboat that has so much Firepower that the Enemy is unable to show up bcs of inescapable obliteration.

Firepower is Protection!

PS: Firepower is a multiplication process and Armor a subtraction process - multiplication allways wins!

Edited by Thorqemada, 28 August 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Void Angel, on 28 August 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

That's not really what the OP is describing, however; he wants Assaults to hang back and backstop the team - essentially holding positions behind the front line and preventing people from flanking or pushing through to the rear. Lights scout and harrass; Mediums are the vanguard, hunting down lights and hitting the enemy force initially; and Heavies are the second-line combatants who do the lion's share of the killing.

Never agreed to his idea, heavens no. It was a personal question since mistaking vanguard to be that, to know which term was the proper one. He is right that Heavies are usually doing the lion's share, but you'd be insane to have the mediums lead. That is the task of Assauts, which form the spearhead, use their heavy armor to take the initial counterattack and generate presence to draw enemy attention away from Strikers. Mediums are skirmishers hunting for weakened or isolated targets wheras Light scouts generate map awareness, providing intel on the enemy formation and detecting flanking attempts.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

I run my Stalker 3F as a mix between both worlds.

2ERLL, 4MPL, 4 LRM5. Granted LRM5s can be shot down easily by AMS, I tend to spam opportunistic targets like ECM mechs who've had the ECM knocked out. I have PLENTY of LRM ammo to straight up burn through AMS ammo as well. Halfway through the game and later, those 4 LRM5s come in real handy. Especially if I've been burning armor away with my ERLLs.

When things get close I tend to chain fire my 4MPLs and my ERLLs on occasion. Its an effective build I can have fun with. Just as an example.

EDIT:

SethAbercromby, on 28 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Never agreed to his idea, heavens no. It was a personal question since mistaking vanguard to be that, to know which term was the proper one. He is right that Heavies are usually doing the lion's share, but you'd be insane to have the mediums lead. That is the task of Assauts, which form the spearhead, use their heavy armor to take the initial counterattack and generate presence to draw enemy attention away from Strikers. Mediums are skirmishers hunting for weakened or isolated targets wheras Light scouts generate map awareness, providing intel on the enemy formation and detecting flanking attempts.

This, all of this. Assaults should always lead the charge and draw the aggro, having the support of the team. Mediums leading a charge will get you one thing: Defeat.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 28 August 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[TygerLily]

I don't think Assaults as LRMs are bad (especially as a your pugging Mech for reasons the OP mentioned)...afterall, several are built for it via hardpoints (several Stalkers, Battlemaster-1S, Awesome -R and -T). They can bring HUGE fire with plenty of ammo.

However, IMO, the "metal up front" philosophy is better. Use your Medium slot for a Treb with LRM30 and 6-8 tons ammo. Then put a Splat Stalker, direct fire Dire Wolf, and DDC up front. They can take the abuse and land precision shots, pop UAVs that don't get shot down and let the Treb rain away with indirect, "random" shots to sandblast the armor and finish off retreating wounded.

The other caveat is to use LRM Assaults in moderation. If you're planning a 12-man or something and you want huge LRMs, don't take more than one.

Edited by TygerLily, 28 August 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[Fut]

SethAbercromby, on 28 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Never agreed to his idea, heavens no. It was a personal question since mistaking vanguard to be that, to know which term was the proper one. He is right that Heavies are usually doing the lion's share, but you'd be insane to have the mediums lead. That is the task of Assauts, which form the spearhead, use their heavy armor to take the initial counterattack and generate presence to draw enemy attention away from Strikers. Mediums are skirmishers hunting for weakened or isolated targets wheras Light scouts generate map awareness, providing intel on the enemy formation and detecting flanking attempts.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 28 August 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

This, all of this. Assaults should always lead the charge and draw the aggro, having the support of the team. Mediums leading a charge will get you one thing: Defeat.

As a dedicated Medium Pilot, I've got to say that I agree with this completely.
Whenever I'm the one leading a push, it always results in my Mech suffering too much damage at the onset, which leaves me playing defensively for the rest of the match.

The best pushes I've been involved with are the ones where I charge with an Assault. As the enemy focuses on them, I'm able to charge in further to get within brawling range, which typically makes the enemy shitthemselves, allowing my Assault to bring the pain.

[Stingray Productions]

I've LRM'd boated my atlas and come out of matches with 900 damage....I'd say it's ok for assaults to LRM boat.

[SethAbercromby]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 28 August 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

I run my Stalker 3F as a mix between both worlds.

2ERLL, 4MPL, 4 LRM5. Granted LRM5s can be shot down easily by AMS, I tend to spam opportunistic targets like ECM mechs who've had the ECM knocked out. I have PLENTY of LRM ammo to straight up burn through AMS ammo as well. Halfway through the game and later, those 4 LRM5s come in real handy. Especially if I've been burning armor away with my ERLLs.

Running my 5S as fire support 2LL, 4ML, 2SSRM, 2LRM10. Only three tons of LRM ammo, as it is designed to generate presence through being able to fire at any range. LRM20 volleys are also fairly resistent to AMS fire, so there is rarely need for actual missile spam. It sticks to the second line and assists the harder hitting Assaults until it gets an opprtunity to lead a push.

Fut, on 28 August 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

The best pushes I've been involved with are the ones where I charge with an Assault. As the enemy focuses on them, I'm able to charge in further to get within brawling range, which typically makes the enemy shitthemselves, allowing my Assault to bring the pain.

Running both Assaults and Medium Skirmishers, I know exactly what you mean. Suddenly jumping right in front of the enemy and hitting them with everything you got causes massive dissonance in the enemy. You're suddenly generating massive presence, but they still have that Assault looming just outside their field of awareness that just loves to feast on their face the second their turn their attention away.

[Tiberius Augustus]

If you happened to see 2 or 3 timbers charging with 1 assault class, forget the assault kill the timbers quick (if you have the numbers) or run(if you at the losing end)

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Do both! Shoot LRMs and draw fire at the same time!

[Jalik]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 August 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

If you load your assault with LRMs you are a liability. Period. If you load any mech with only LRMs you are a liability. The fact that PUGs are dominated by LRMs tells you a lot about the way they are played. Nothing but hiding and cowering. Did you see many LRMs during PGI tournament or any competitive drops? That should also tell you something.

don't stop here. your next question should be "why are PUGs played like this and not like group matches". the answer is easy and explains why lurms are used in PUG matches. you can't really trust the other PUGers, you will never know whether they will do what you want them to do. that's why people are alot more cautious and like to hide often. it's just natural. so, nothing bad about it and something a PUG player (like me) simply has to accept. whether assaults should be the lrm boats I have mixed feelings. I see the benefit of LRMs in general, and I do own a Stalker 5M with 4 lrm5 and one lrm 10 and just enough ammo to deal damage in the first half of the PUG match (where both sides are hiding behind cover as long as possible/necessary). in the second half of the match, when my lrm ammo usually is low or used up already, I try to brawl with 4 ML and one LPL. I try to do what an assault is supposed to do.. lead the charge, attract the enemy fire, soak the damage, kill the targets I softened up with the lrms before. It works very well this way .. in PUGs mind you. However, as we nowadays play by the 4 x 3 rules every (exclusive) lrm boat assault is one less tank at the front line (where the tanks are supposed to be). It means that we have 2 assaults doing their job at the front line and the enemy got 3. direwulfs if you're unlucky. to sum it up: LRMs in PUG play are a good and valid choice. But assault lrm boats which cannot brawl when they're needed the most are propably diminishing their teams chances to survive and win the match.

[Void Angel]

SethAbercromby, on 28 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Never agreed to his idea, heavens no. It was a personal question since mistaking vanguard to be that, to know which term was the proper one. He is right that Heavies are usually doing the lion's share, but you'd be insane to have the mediums lead. That is the task of Assauts, which form the spearhead, use their heavy armor to take the initial counterattack and generate presence to draw enemy attention away from Strikers. Mediums are skirmishers hunting for weakened or isolated targets wheras Light scouts generate map awareness, providing intel on the enemy formation and detecting flanking attempts.

Oh, I quite understand - your communication was very clear. I just wanted my own position to be clear as well, and took advantage of your question to make sure of that. =)

[ShadowbaneX]

For the first time in a long time I hopped into my brawling Highlander-733C (AC/20, 3xSRM6+Artemis, backed up by 2 MLs) and took it out for some matches. It was horrible. I got a few matches where I did ok damage (500 give or take). When I run my Victor-9B I've at least got decent speed (78 kph) or my Battlemaster-1S (4 LRM10s) I've got missile rain, but brawling assaults just seem useless and slow.

[IraqiWalker]

ShadowbaneX, on 30 August 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

For the first time in a long time I hopped into my brawling Highlander-733C (AC/20, 3xSRM6+Artemis, backed up by 2 MLs) and took it out for some matches. It was horrible. I got a few matches where I did ok damage (500 give or take). When I run my Victor-9B I've at least got decent speed (78 kph) or my Battlemaster-1S (4 LRM10s) I've got missile rain, but brawling assaults just seem useless and slow.

The highlander is not as nimble as the Victor. It will take some getting used to. Am I correct in assuming you haven't touched it since the first phase of nerfs that hit it?

[Escef]

IraqiWalker, on 30 August 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

The highlander is not as nimble as the Victor. It will take some getting used to. Am I correct in assuming you haven't touched it since the first phase of nerfs that hit it?

I pulled my HGN-733 out for the first time in months the other day. The jump jet changes hit it hard. That said, it's still a very solid weapons platform, and the jets grant a nice boost to mobility on any map with a lot of elevation changes.

[ShadowbaneX]

IraqiWalker, on 30 August 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

The highlander is not as nimble as the Victor. It will take some getting used to. Am I correct in assuming you haven't touched it since the first phase of nerfs that hit it?

Yeah, it's been a while. I did try it a bit after the JJ nerf, and they hit it hard, (my 733C uses only 2 JJ and finding 4 tons isn't going to be easy). Still the point is the DPS flying around is so much higher that it practically doesn't matter.

[Nightshade24]

Well to me no name of a weight class forces it to be a certain thing.

An assault mech can be an LRM boat, SRM boat, ECM and AMS platform, Long Range support, or Close up brawler.
Hell, even an assault mech can do a bit of Scouting, My battlemaster has an XL 400 (do not complain about me being an idiot yet about XL + Assault mech, I've been using this guy since I got it from the phoenix package and I only died 5 times from torso getting knocked out) and it has quite a bit of speed. Not to the same degree off a light mech but it can get to places fast and smash in enemy mechs with the 6 med lasers and LBX 10.

Assault mechs can do what they want and it isn't a waste if they do something that you do not want them to do ie LRM boat.
Not all assault mechs are good to fit the stereotype off brawlers.

Assaults can do what ever role they can realistically perform. Rather that be ranged support. LRM boats, Skirmishers, Brawlers, etc.


To be honest, not all assaults can be meat shields. Only Banshee to some degree and atlas can be good at soaking up damage, Stalker, awesome, and assaults like those are not really good for meat shields.

[Kwea]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 August 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

1) To prove you ain't a coward with no backbone to stand for what you said?
2) I said any mech you want. LRMs or not IDC.



Typical clueless lurmer. Go take a light mech and "tank" will ya?

You are an idiot. For the record.

(not that there was much doubt)

It's a video game, not real life. And in real life, accepting a duel is the sign of an idiot and a fool.

If he fights you on Alpine you lose. If he does it on river city, HE loses.

The problem is that direct fire works at multiple ranges, applies panel specific damage rather than spread damage, and is useful in 90% of situations. LRM's do more damage, but that damage is non-specific spread damage and is useless up close.

LRM's are situational.

And Damage is a horrible metric for assessing how effective you were in a match.

Edited by Kwea, 30 August 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

ah, the perennial discussion of Assault LRM boats. NO, Assaults should never be LRM boats. It's not about whether they can do it but the opportunity costs of having Assault LRM boats.

Assaults have the heaviest armor and can pack the most firepower. LRM boating wastes both of these. Meaning you are not only costing your team a tank but also a damage dealer.

LRM platforms should be left to Heavies or Mediums who have the mobility to displace to better firing positions. Assaults should be in the front providing distractions/tank and/or punching people's faces in

In short, if you want to LRM boat, play a Catapult or a Jagermech-A or a SHD/GRF/TBT

Addendum: Stalkers are fantastic tankers.

Edited by knightsljx, 30 August 2014 - 10:34 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

I think having ONE LRM Warhawk on a team isn't too bad. Otherwise the opportunity costs are too great.