106 replies to this topic

[Postumus]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 25 August 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

...

Engine restrictions. No more XL 400 small laser Hunchbacks.

[Noesis]

Re-sized mediums (not economical to correct, so stuck with them and the continued poor design for game balance).

[Utilyan]

Bacl, on 25 August 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

WAIT THERE IS A TREE THAT CAN FALL?! I need to know what map and where!

Mech legs over terrain and animation in general is pretty meh... The art team is so awesome, its a shame they cant get anyone of their caliber in the other departments...

River City. Also has street lights/posts can be shot down.

[Dawnstealer]

I was around for a couple of these, but not nearly all. Closed Beta sounds like it was a very, very different game.

[Cybermech]

like the idea of this thread and it should be done, some of the info is off, don't know about the tree one but the rest I'm 100% sure of.

• Collisions (crashing did damage)
  
• this is still in game
  
• Destructible terrain (limited to 1 tree on a single map, I think)
  
• ?? it was always something to be added down the road, never seen this one tree.
  
• Mech legs adjusting to terrain (adjusting the angle of feet and bending of the knees to stand directly on the surface)
  
• if its a list about things not working then this should not be here, you could go everywhere, was a bit out of whack, was expecting this to be added all along.
  
• A 4th Centurion variant (CN9-AH)
  
• once again if its about not working, it was working and still does just got changed to the wang which was very disgusting and added in a different marketing approach.
  
• Repair and rearm (You actually had to pay for spent ammo and damaged mechs. Expensive equipment was more expensive to repair, Artemis missiles were more expensive to reload.)
  
• didn't get removed because it didn't work, it got removed for taxing players and mainly effecting new players while experienced players would have far better mechs. the got removed part because of being able to go back into game with certain amount of armor and ammo is one that was a distraction, they wanted to make things more expensive and longer to grind, its more of a myth continued by the forums even though its quite clear far later down the road why it got removed.

too add or well at least clear up HSR, it used to be the server would take a second to make sure the shot was fired and then would do the damage. it seemed the better they made it for ballistics cause originally it was very bad it seemed to make things worse for other things, then HSR was added and it just turned so bad. took them a very long time to get HSR in order.

also some will remember from alpha video that was going around JJ's used to go sidewards, presume it created far too much lag and got removed.

mech used to explode, like really explode and could take out people close by, didn't last long I will never forget the first time I seen it happen, I ran screaming out of laughter wondering what the hell was that. can't remember how long it lasted but it wasn't long, it was from crits.

you used to be able to fall from the sky and see where your enemy team was for like 3 seconds, land back to position and kill them all.. lolz

[Tristan Winter]

Lucky Moniker, on 25 August 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Catapult K2 with literally twice the hardpoints. 8x laser 4x ballistic. It was truly glorious.
for all of 2 weeks the 8 ML and 4 MG K2 with a massive engine ruled the battlefield.
then they nerfed it and the un-jamming uacs took over.
i also liked having to manually unjam them by cycling all your weapons groups, which very quickly had a macro made to auto unjam them and keep going

A K2-Catapult with enough energy hardpoints to actually make energy weapons worthwhile? Ridiculous! It was clearly designed to mount AC20's.

[/sarcasm]

[Cybermech]

also the graphics, they used to be so much better in terms of mech deaths.
I remember back in early closed beta was in a hunch against an atlas, both of us needed one more hit to die, both powered down in front of each others face, basically could see the inside of his cockpit. as I was powering back up I knew that I was gone. then someone killed him from the back but I was so close to him it looked like his insides where splattered all over my cockpit. it was the best kill I have ever seen.

Edited by Cybermech, 25 August 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

• Collisions (crashing did damage)
  
• this is still in game

It does 0.001 dmg. It's practically gone from the game. When two 80 ton mechs collide, both going 80+ kph, they barely get yellow armour on their legs. It's not worth talking about.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

• Destructible terrain (limited to 1 tree on a single map, I think)
  
• ?? it was always something to be added down the road, never seen this one tree.

Well, clearly they have coded it, but it took up too much resources. Someone mentioned destructible traffic signs too, and I remember those now. It's content they have, but they only left a few of them in the game, and then removed them completely.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

• Mech legs adjusting to terrain (adjusting the angle of feet and bending of the knees to stand directly on the surface)
  
• if its a list about things not working then this should not be here, you could go everywhere, was a bit out of whack, was expecting this to be added all along.

We may be talking about two different things. I'm not talking about the ability to climb hills. I'm talking about the graphics when mechs were standing on sloped hills.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

• A 4th Centurion variant (CN9-AH)
  
• once again if its about not working, it was working and still does just got changed to the wang which was very disgusting and added in a different marketing approach.
  
• Repair and rearm (You actually had to pay for spent ammo and damaged mechs. Expensive equipment was more expensive to repair, Artemis missiles were more expensive to reload.)
  
• didn't get removed because it didn't work, it got removed for taxing players and mainly effecting new players while experienced players would have far better mechs. the got removed part because of being able to go back into game with certain amount of armor and ammo is one that was a distraction, they wanted to make things more expensive and longer to grind, its more of a myth continued by the forums even though its quite clear far later down the road why it got removed.

Changed the OP to reflect that some stuff was removed because PGI didn't like it.

It's not clear at all why R&R was removed. It certainly wasn't because PGI wants new players to have an easy experience, otherwise they wouldn't match new players in stock mechs with single heat sinks against 2 year veterans with pimped out, mastered mechs with 6 different modules and consumables.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

also some will remember from alpha video that was going around JJ's used to go sidewards, presume it created far too much lag and got removed.

Sauce? Can't find this video.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

mech used to explode, like really explode and could take out people close by, didn't last long I will never forget the first time I seen it happen, I ran screaming out of laughter wondering what the hell was that. can't remember how long it lasted but it wasn't long, it was from crits.

You mean actual collateral damage? That's cool, didn't know about that. Will add it to the list.

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

also the graphics, they used to be so much better in terms of mech deaths.
I remember back in early closed beta was in a hunch against an atlas, both of us needed one more hit to die, both powered down in front of each others face, basically could see the inside of his cockpit. as I was powering back up I knew that I was gone. then someone killed him from the back but I was so close to him it looked like his insides where splattered all over my cockpit. it was the best kill I have ever seen.

I've heard about this and seen screenshots, but I'm not sure how this actually happened. I don't want to just put "good graphics" on the list, without any technical explanation.

[Cybermech]

really don't remember anything being destroyed, trees or signs. can't remember everything

yes complete fail with the hill climbing.

it is very clear why R&R got removed, the grind needed to be 'more' and the R&R got in the way. it wasn't from failure. at the
time it wasn't clear, down the road completely tells that story.

don't have the video on hand, it was the next video after the first one which was about the single player game. I'm sure someone else will remember it. basically 4 trusters, back, forward, left and right. think Jenner was the one using it in the vid.
the graphics one is tricky, reduction in internal destruction detail? insides being destroyed removal? ye no idea but just thinking of things to add while trying to remove others

[Wintersdark]

R&R's removal was entirely a game balance change, not to make the game grindier. Whether you agree with PGI or not, the issue was - from their perspective - that newer players where punished more than experienced players.

It also led to poor gameplay: players would drop in unrepaired zombie cents and such to farm cbills at no cost, etc.

Not to say R&R can't work, but there where many, MANY flaws with the old implementation, and PGI was quite clear about it when they removed it.

[Noesis]

Cybermech, on 25 August 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

it is very clear why R&R got removed, the grind needed to be 'more' and the R&R got in the way. it wasn't from failure. at the
time it wasn't clear, down the road completely tells that story.

Wouldn't R&R make the game more of a grind not less if a preportion of the rewards go to overheads?

Edited by Noesis, 25 August 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Noesis, on 25 August 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Wouldn't R&R make the game more of a grind not less if a preportion of the rewards go to overheads?

Remember that PGI also nerfed our incomes. People tend to forget that. They just went "Sorry, you're getting less money in the future. Enjoy the grind, guys."

On top of that, they added a 60 second wait before each match, with the excuse "This will let you discuss strategy before each match", as if that EVER happens. But making all the players wait more before every match results in people earning less C-bills and XP. It's a straight up tax, with no benefits for the players. They since reduced it to 15 seconds once all the players are ready, but those 15 seconds serve no purpose either.

There's no reason why they shouldn't bring back R&R and increase our income to make up for it. All this talk about CW and capturing worlds with gauss rifle factories, mech salvage and faction discounts has a limited purpose in a universe where there's no downside to suiciding 100 times to win a weekly challenge and get 6,5 million bonus.

[Noesis]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 25 August 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Remember that PGI also nerfed our incomes. People tend to forget that. They just went "Sorry, you're getting less money in the future. Enjoy the grind, guys."

But that is to do with relative income. R&R on whatever income at the time would still reduce earnings, so the point still stands that R&R would be a way to make the game more of a grind not less. So it would not "get in the way" of that objective but help it.

Edited by Noesis, 25 August 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Noesis, on 25 August 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

But that is to do with relative income. R&R on whatever income at the time would still reduce earnings, so the point still stands that R&R would be a way to make the game more of a grind not less. So it would not "get in the way" of that objective but help it.

No, the point of R&R is to punish expensive builds and reward cheap builds. So if you run an assault mech with a XL400 engine, Artemis, DHS, Endo and ER PPCs, you're going to pay for it. It's a mechanic that would make crazy builds like 4xLRM15+Artemis on a Stalker with XL engine a less attractive prospect for farming C-bills in the solo queue. Same with the Dire Wolf with 2xGauss and 2xCERPPC.

Not only does it punish people without skill for running the most expensive builds, but it also encourages people to run light and medium mechs, because R&R is cheaper. So it's not really just a race to the Atlas DDC and Dire Wolf, as it is now. Those mechs aren't "endgame" when R&R is in play, unless you have the skills to make them profitable.

But now, expensive assault mechs are training wheels for people without skills, which is the opposite of how things are supposed to work in Battletech.

[keith]

Lucky Moniker, on 25 August 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Catapult K2 with literally twice the hardpoints. 8x laser 4x ballistic. It was truly glorious.
for all of 2 weeks the 8 ML and 4 MG K2 with a massive engine ruled the battlefield.
then they nerfed it and the un-jamming uacs took over.

i also liked having to manually unjam them by cycling all your weapons groups, which very quickly had a macro made to auto unjam them and keep going

i'll 1 up ya. a swayback that had 11 med that did 5 dam and 3 heat per laser with no engine size. could kill atlas in 2 shots if i remember right, going back ALONG time ago. first month of closed beta, but your also talking about them early days too the good times

[Noesis]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 25 August 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

No, the point of R&R is to punish expensive builds and reward cheap builds. So if you run an assault mech with a XL400 engine, Artemis, DHS, Endo and ER PPCs, you're going to pay for it. It's a mechanic that would make crazy builds like 4xLRM15+Artemis on a Stalker with XL engine a less attractive prospect for farming C-bills in the solo queue. Same with the Dire Wolf with 2xGauss and 2xCERPPC.

Not only does it punish people without skill for running the most expensive builds, but it also encourages people to run light and medium mechs, because R&R is cheaper. So it's not really just a race to the Atlas DDC and Dire Wolf, as it is now. Those mechs aren't "endgame" when R&R is in play, unless you have the skills to make them profitable.

But now, expensive assault mechs are training wheels for people without skills, which is the opposite of how things are supposed to work in Battletech.

I understand R&R, been here since early closed beta.

I also appreciate that some expensive fragile tech can skew the relevance of losses. But some tech and ordinace costs could help here. If lets say specifically for repair costs but not purchase costs XL engines could be repaired at the same price as standard engines then R&R becomes more sense. Remebering that XL engines are more fragile so overall you'd expect more repairs here as a result by comparison.

[Randodan]

Funky Bacon, on 25 August 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Legs adjusting to terrain.

I really looks cringeworthy now, like a high schooler's hack-job. Not sure when/why this got removed...

[Cyborne Elemental]

Highlighted Hitbox data shown in the mechlab for each component on every mech.

Jumpjets.

PPC's

A clean and user friendly mechlab UI.

[WalkingDeathBot]

Anyone remember the closed beta days where the Founders Atlas had the glowing red eye of death?

Those were fun times.

[Hellcat420]

"a battletech game" should be added to the list!

WalkingDeathBot, on 25 August 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Anyone remember the closed beta days where the Founders Atlas had the glowing red eye of death?

Those were fun times.

i miss those eyes, they at least made the atlas look scary.

Edited by Hellcat420, 25 August 2014 - 06:34 PM.