178 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

Looks like a nerf coming in for CERMLs.

[Crunk Prime]

Honestly they probably changed some things so drastically that they know some people are going to explode when they see the changes, so they are being kept hidden until people load up the test server.

Im not even going to bother with the test server.

Im just going to watch all the action from afar with some popcorn.

[Nauht]

Crunk Prime, on 27 August 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Honestly they probably changed some things so drastically that they know some people are going to explode when they see the changes, so they are being kept hidden until people load up the test server.

Im not even going to bother with the test server.

Im just going to watch all the action from afar with some popcorn.

Nah leave the popcorn for the real deal. Though I don't know why they bother with the test server, or why we should, cos history has shown that Paul and PGI do whatever the **** they want regardless.

So if you're not gonna bother, at least do it (or don't do it?) for the right reason.

[Ultimax]

I'm guessing most weapons will get the awful cERLLAS treatment.

Technically it has more range, runs cooler and more damage than the IS ER LLAS.

Practically, it's a worse weapon in pretty much 90% of the circumstances you would use either one in.

If you gave me a choice of one or the other, on any mech, I would choose the IS ER LLAS every single time without blinking.



So I imagine clan UACs will remain bad, Gauss might be a burst weapon and join the awful bin.

cERMLAS bumped up to some horrible burn time, LRMs will have their recycles doubled even though they are already worse against AMS and SRMs might get the same treatment.

And then we will hit true bizarro world, and a 6 ton pulse laser will be nerfed somehow along with the Medium Pulse laser.
Palms across the land will meet foreheads, hard.

That leaves...small laser/pulse lasers & machine guns.


I'm bracing myself for the worst, did I leave anything out?

[Solis Obscuri]

Soooo... when on Thursday is the testing happening?

[Livewyr]

TheMagician, on 27 August 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

<snip>
It's a shame too, because you guys had the IS really well balanced against each other....<snip>

You jest, yes?

[StalaggtIKE]

Any tweaks towards clan XL engines? If not, all the weapon changes in the world wont make a difference.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 27 August 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[Sky Hawk]

I like tests, and I love Mech tests... But, full blind tests? Like: "Here is a weapons.. it does something, but just figured at yourself what... ":... Really? .. How can we do exact feedback, if we don't even know, what we should look after actually... I hope, you didn't forget, that many of us are doesn't (or just only a few times) played Clan Mechs/weapons...

I played 1 match with an CERLL at PTS last lime.. and I died after 1 shoot.. (in some CAC crossfire).. Tomorrow, I hopefully could test them more.. but, what should I look after? Duration, heat, cooldown, penalty, range, color, damage, sound, feelings, etc..? And at the end, perhaps could be that, you don't even changed CERLL this time, and I will just loose my time unnecessary and can't help, even if I want... because I don't knowed, that you changed the CAC10, not the CERLL... Would be not easier, to say "Look after please, the X attribute from Y weapon" ?


PS. Other theme, I know,.. but will you ever start a match with "only" 23 players, without waiting the 1 DC player? Since you implement reconnect... that 60 seconds waitihg time for ALL OTHER 23 player, is really useless... and just vaste of our time...

Edited by Sky Hawk, 27 August 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Thorqemada]

It would be good if you place the "Test-Server-String" of the Testing Builds below the "F9-String" (FPS + Coordinates).

Imho this would increase the readability of said strings.

Thx

PS: Bcs the last test had the both strings put half into each other.

Edited by Thorqemada, 27 August 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

The IS had an effective counter to the Clans before PGI removed it.

Dragonbowling!!

[Koniks]

101011, on 27 August 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

I never thought I would see the day where people called for pulse laser nerfs, but here we are...nerf the chassis not the faction.

The problem is the faction not the chassis. Clan pulse lasers are a completely different animal than the Inner Sphere versions. Then when you factor in Clan pulse lasers + range modules (without heat penalty) + targeting computer = almost Clan ER laser with more damage and close to I.S. beam duration. Even the Inner Sphere ER Large Lasers don't compare. Combined with the Clan XL advantage and weight savings, it's devastating.

Nerfing the ER Large Laser definitely hurt the Clan lights. But even on the SCR, it only marginally affected the laser boat builds with the switch to an LPL given the other bonuses available.

And even if you ignore the pure laser boats, the ERML+Gauss or MPL+Gauss builds are also ridiculous,

I have less of a problem with SRMs being able to pack that punch when boated because their effective range is so short. And LRMs at least have an answer in the I.S. and a long list of drawbacks.

Edited by Mizeur, 27 August 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I hope that fixing Heat Capacity will still be on the table before further weapon changes go into effect (and Heat Scale Penalties can be tweaked also after fixing Heat Capacity).

I really feel that this can work well (and I can wait for the ability to dump ammo to just fix the cap):

[TheMagician]

Livewyr, on 27 August 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

You jest, yes?

No. It is pretty good in IS vs IS. You have a solid mix of brawl, mid-range, and range, depending on the map. The ppc speed nerf was a bit overboard though, and could be sped up a fair bit. But it was pretty close to a solid balance.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

... new data center ... greater latency performance to many our non NA customers ...
I hope this does produce measurable performance increases (my detailed feedback from the previous public test is here). If you could give us more information about the data center's location, we could try and predict our expected performance (assuming pingtest, speedtest, and other tools are accurate).

De-sync Bug ... latest improvement to the Crytek networking code ...
While this doesn't affect me often, I do know how frustrating it is for those who experience it frequently, and appreciate your efforts.

Clan weapon balance test ... I am going to avoid telling you any of the details of what has changed ... My hope is that you get to try these changes out and share your first-hand experience with us before the numbers lead to any preconceptions. ...
I really appreciate the effort that went into getting Clan 'mechs as close as you did. I would really like for the difference between the effectiveness between Clan and IS 'mechs of each weight class to be smaller. Right now, those of us who have Clan 'mechs (especially heavies and assaults) are wondering when it will be worth the risk to start playing IS 'mechs again. I will likely be running IS only for the public test.

Bottom Line: Thanks for the information. I hope the new data center works as expected. Thanks for the testing opportunity.

[Ultimax]

TheMagician, on 27 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

No. It is pretty good in IS vs IS. You have a solid mix of brawl, mid-range, and range, depending on the map. The ppc speed nerf was a bit overboard though, and could be sped up a fair bit. But it was pretty close to a solid balance.

But only on a handful of very specific chassis, several being MC only and boiled down to a handful of optimal weapons.

Honestly I am really curious to see where these nerfs go.

Clan UACs are already not that good.
Clan cERLLAS is really bad.
cERPPC took the same nerf that PPC/ERPPC took, although it's still better than the ERPPC - I'm not convinced it's all that great and there is nothing to synch it with clan side the way IS can sync PPCs with AC10/20.
cLRMs are extremely light, but are clearly much worse against AMS (a lot worse).
SSRMs already have really long cooldowns, with the SSRM 6 topping out at 7s.

cLPL is OK I like it but it feels like paying more tonnage for what the IS ER LLAS is, I can't even imagine it needs to be nerfed but anything is possible. MPLs are "ok" but hardly a good or great weapon deserving of a nerf - they're better than IS MPLs, but IS MPLs are bad and have long been bad.

I can't imagine anyone is worried about MGs, ERSLAS or cSLPL, and ERSLAS were nerfed a touch already before clan launch.


Leaving the clearly "very good" weapons:

SRMs
cERMLAS
cGauss

[and zero]

Carrie Harder, on 27 August 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Hmmm, does Papa Smurfy update for PTS patches?

It makes me sad that smurfy still has a better UI/mechlab than MWO, the multi million dollar game...

[Nauht]

Mizeur, on 27 August 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

The problem is the faction not the chassis. Clan pulse lasers are a completely different animal than the Inner Sphere versions. Then when you factor in Clan pulse lasers + range modules (without heat penalty) + targeting computer = almost Clan ER laser with more damage and close to I.S. beam duration. Even the Inner Sphere ER Large Lasers don't compare. Combined with the Clan XL advantage and weight savings, it's devastating.

Nerfing the ER Large Laser definitely hurt the Clan lights. But even on the SCR, it only marginally affected the laser boat builds with the switch to an LPL given the other bonuses available.

And even if you ignore the pure laser boats, the ERML+Gauss or MPL+Gauss builds are also ridiculous,

I have less of a problem with SRMs being able to pack that punch when boated because their effective range is so short. And LRMs at least have an answer in the I.S. and a long list of drawbacks.

All in one mech!!!

This type of argument is like saying "damn those IS, pumping me with superior LRM60s with AC10 support and then closing for the AC20 finisher".

[Carrie Harder]

101011, on 27 August 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

I never thought I would see the day where people called for pulse laser nerfs, but here we are...balance the chassis, not the faction.

The wub wub is overpowered. Too much wubbing!

[MischiefSC]

Anything but longer burn times is good with me pretty much.

Any 'balance mechanic' that involves extending burn times isn't balancing the weapon - it functions by forcing the player to play badly to use it.

That's bad and not enjoyable to play. Balancing something by making it so un-fun to play that nobody uses it isn't balancing it - it's making the game less fun as a 'balancing mechanic'.

Other than that though I'm happy to try stuff.

[Sandpit]

Verkhne, on 27 August 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

hmmm more Clan nerfs incoming....I knew I should not have bought clan mechs yet!

FTFY

That's a chance you take when you buy somethign early on like that. Everyone knew they'd get nerfed as soon as the first "EMG clans are op" thread hit the forums

MischiefSC, on 27 August 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

Anything but longer burn times is good with me pretty much.

Any 'balance mechanic' that involves extending burn times isn't balancing the weapon - it functions by forcing the player to play badly to use it.

That's bad and not enjoyable to play. Balancing something by making it so un-fun to play that nobody uses it isn't balancing it - it's making the game less fun as a 'balancing mechanic'.

Other than that though I'm happy to try stuff.

The burn times on clan lasers is ridiculously long. I don't see where PGI looked at that and thought "Yea, 2 seconds is a good amount of time to force players to stand out in the open and take return fire if they want to deal the whole damage from their weapon"