173 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Vassago Rain, on 28 August 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

They're nerfed because the nova's now available for c-bills...

Obvious, really.

Ironically the trend does seem to fit.

Kit Fox comes out for C-bills - C-ER LL used in alot of popular builds gets nerfed.
Nova comes out for C-bills - C-ER ML which is absolutely vital for a good Nova build gets nerfed.

Honestly glad I didn't pay real money for these two at this point. However I did buy a Stormcrow and Timber Wolf and now I am shuddering to think how badly reamed those two mechs are going to get when they finally release for C-bills.

Mental note to self: QUIT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SPENDING REAL, HARD EARNED MONEY ON THIS GAME...YOUR JUST GOING TO GET SCREWED IF YOU DO!!!

[process]

I really wish they'd utilize the test server more often to do radical, comprehensive balance overhauls. There are just, so, soooo many layers of patching and band-aiding that I'm skeptical that we'll ever get something that works, and just as importantly, feels right.

[Tristan Winter]

So... PGI learns that some clan mechs are OP, others are fine, and some are arguably underpowered compared to the top IS mechs. What do they do? They nerf weapons for everyone, effectively. But it especially nerfs those mechs that rely primarily on energy weapons, like the Nova and the Puma. I guess those were the real sinners, right?

[Ultimax]

DV McKenna, on 28 August 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

So pulse lasers were seeing some use for like the first time ever.....

Why would you take a MPL over a ML with these stat changes.

I'm pretty sure there is a DEFCON like alert system at PGI HQ that is constantly monitoring when more than 10 die hards use any kind of a pulse laser anywhere, including the testing grounds.

Once that reaches the maximum allowable threshold for WUB, around 20-25 users, a computer begins drawing up ways to nerf Pulse lasers before they take over the Earth.

It's for our safety.

[Xarian]

- Heat buff to ERLL combined with burn time nerf is a good call; it makes the weapon more than just a long-ranged LL. Trust me on this, IS players - 0.5 seconds extra burn time won't make the weapon useless - PGI is just trying to tone down hitscan sniping.
- Heat nerf to CERSL went way too far. 50% heat increase is way too punitive - heat should've gone to 2.4 (20% increase), on par with heat nerfs to other weapons. When combined with range nerf, they aren't worth using over CERMLs for any reason (the only reason before was because of their low heat generation).
- Heat nerf to CSPL went way too far. Nearly 50% heat increase, as above. Heat should've gone to 2.7 (20% increase). When combined with the range nerf, they aren't worth using over CERMLs for any reason (see above).
- Range nerfs to Clan weaponry is good, including CMPL. But not combined with dramatic heat nerfs in the case of the small lasers.
- Heat nerf to large lasers was unnecessary but won't have much effect on gameplay.
- Heat and damage nerfs at to pulse lasers is unnecessary - they need buffs nearly across the board (both IS and Clan). Pulse lasers need to be a viable weapon option, and should be considered 'obvious' choices for close-range fighting. They have no real advantage over non-pulse lasers right now.
- Buffs to Clan LRMs are balancing in the wrong direction - I like LRM cooldowns being normalized, but they need to be normalized to a higher cooldown value (for example, all of them nerfed to have the same cooldown as the CLRM20).


- Weapons (except for Clan Streaks, which have hilariously long recycle times) need higher cooldowns in general, especially PPCs (which have a faster recycle time than lasers for an unknown reason).

[AlphaToaster]

Problem: No one is using weapon modules due to heat. Usage numbers way down.

Solution: Announce heat is being removed, adding rank 5. Then wait a week as people buy them.

Then: Add heat from the modules into base weapons and nerf ranges down to force module use to return to near pre-nerf levels. Hold Meeting proclaiming widespread module use a success.

LRM buff is the smoke screen to draw the heat off the other changes.

[Alex Warden]

Kiiyor, on 28 August 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

CLPL, I.... why? CERLL, who uses that now anyway?

was just a matter of time... ppc damage, relatively short beam, and 1km range... it is the better alternative to the CERLL, not to mention a strong competition for the standard LL

Edited by Alex Warden, 28 August 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Viktor Drake, on 28 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Ironically the trend does seem to fit.

Kit Fox comes out for C-bills - C-ER LL used in alot of popular builds gets nerfed.
Nova comes out for C-bills - C-ER ML which is absolutely vital for a good Nova build gets nerfed.

The trend fits because everyone uses those two weapons. They could have been released in any order and it would still seem to fit.

[Ultimax]

Alex Warden, on 28 August 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

was just a matter of time... ppc damage, relatively short beam, and 1km range... it is the better alternative to the CERLL, not to mention a strong competition for the standard LL

NERF TEH PPCS

....

EVERYONE SWITCHED TO BEAMZ NERF TEH BEAMZ

,..


TO BE CONTINUED...

[Roland]

Xarian, on 28 August 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

- Heat buff to ERLL combined with burn time nerf is a good call; it makes the weapon more than just a long-ranged LL. Trust me on this, IS players - 0.5 seconds extra burn time won't make the weapon useless - PGI is just trying to tone down hitscan sniping.

Yeah, I think this is the main thing... With the prior stats, there was generally no reason to ever bring the standard LL.

Unfortunately, a better solution would have been to BUFF the standard large laser, as this would have balanced the IS large lasers against the clans better... As it was, the ISERLL was kind of the only IS energy weapon that was still kind of reasonable against the clans.... The LL wasn't really good enough.

I think that perhaps something which would help with this kind of balance change, is if Paul explained IN DETAIL what his rationale was for all of his changes.

I know he doesn't like to talk to us and explain stuff... but that's too bad, because it's his job.

He needs to explain his rationale, and be willing to accept criticism from his players on his decisions, and even walk back some of the decisions if it turns out they are bad.

Admission of error is not a sign of weakness.

[MechB Kotare]

Yeah.

Current cERLL are/were overnerfed, those who used them prenerf switched to cLPLs because they are/were all in all better.

Thanks for the cERLL beam duration reduce. All changes that should've done to that weapon seem to happen in test server. (range reduction, damage reduction, heat increase...)

Good changes for cERML. I think their range is/was way too superior.

Why on earth the IS ERLL needed beam duration i will never know however. This kinda goes back to cERLL prenerf when cERLL > IS ERLL. 9damage over one sec was hardly making this weapon superior in anyway (postnerf).

cooldown reduction to LRMs is a bad call yet again. They should've had their damage increased, in exchange of massive cooldown reduction = eliminating LRM spam (flooding) rpomoting support aspect (damage) of the weapon.

I still need to test this.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 28 August 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Ultimax]

Rouken, on 28 August 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

The trend fits because everyone uses those two weapons. They could have been released in any order and it would still seem to fit.

Everyone uses those because most other options are bad.

Don't worry, in about a week or two the queues will be filled with the least-bad options maximized as best as possible, and there will be people on the forum crying about that build, whatever it may be.

[Carrie Harder]

Ultimatum X, on 28 August 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

NERF TEH PPCS

....

EVERYONE SWITCHED TO BEAMZ NERF TEH BEAMZ

,..


TO BE CONTINUED...

I have a feeling that Clan Lurms might be next in line for the Circle of Nerf™.

[RF Greywolf]

Roland, on 28 August 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Admission of error is not a sign of weakness.

Have you seen the people in the forum? They are perfect and expect perfection from everyone, well their version of perfect. If it doesn't fit in their vision than it's not right. Sadly we see this too much when we watch very good discussions devolve into "Your idea isn't like mine so it's completely wrong."

I agree with you Roland but look at the crowd that is on here. They will not accept anything less than what they think should be done. I will wait to see the results while messing on the PTS and hopefully Paul releases some notes on the reason for some of these changes so we can discuss it.

[NextGame]

know what would have been better than this round of changes? Leaving the weapon values the **** alone.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 28 August 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

On the bright side, this is only the test server! That means they'll listen to feedback!

Right?...They will...won't they?

We keep talking about wub changes like we were summoning Bloody Mary or Beetlejuice.

Now that it's been normalized, we know what we're accidentally summoning.

[Ultimax]

Carrie Harder, on 28 August 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I have a feeling that Clan Lurms might be next in line for the Circle of Nerf™.

I'm not really sure how to respond to that, so here is an image of Frankenstein fighting a gargantuan octopus.

[Viges]

They buffed CLRMS to nerf them in next patch! I think is brilliant!

[EvilCow]

Roland, on 28 August 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Admission of error is not a sign of weakness.

Do we even have a single instance of this here?

[Roland]

Viges, on 28 August 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

They buffed CLRMS to nerf them in next patch! I think is brilliant!T

They buffed the CLRM's so that they can release the Novacat for MC only, with it's B Variant which carries 6 CLRM 15's.

They will later release it for CBills, and nerf the LRM back into the ground.