73 replies to this topic

[Lexx]

The problem with stock only matches in MWO is that even if you don't allow champion or hero mechs, there are a few stock mechs are just better than the others. Mechs like the Cicada 3M, Griffin 3M and Wolverine 7K, just to name a few. Some stocks mechs have double heat sinks, endo steel and large XL engines as well as more and better weaponry.

Everyone would just use the few stock mechs that are better than the rest and there would be very little variety.

[Nathan Foxbane]

I would like to add a save current configuration and restore to stock configuration button to this proposal. That means base variant for champions, not the custom builds they sport when purchased for MC.

[Syncline]

Personally, I don't give a damn if stock mechs are profitable for PGI or not - they're charging so much money for individual mech purchases and premium time, while nice, is implemented terribly (it decays even on days when you don't play a single game WTFLOL).

That being said, I'd very much enjoy a stock-mech-only queue.

[TLBFestus]

TLBFestus, on 02 September 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

I've said this before, but here we go again;

Why not provide a STOCK loadout for a player IF they have purchased and mastered/elited any 3 or more variants of a mech chasis?

They still have the c-bill sink to contend with, so it doesn't hurt PGIs bottom line, and it saves us the hassle of retooling mechs to stock.

Naturally something like this would be an incentive to have premium time as well.

First time EVER quoting myself but I want to point out that myself, and a few others, are the only ones to make a suggestion here that includes the word "profitable".

PGI has basically NEVER done anything out of the goodness of their hearts, as evidenced by the steady, never failing production of mechs for sale, while other parts of the game languish.

With my suggestion if you want to run a stock mech easily (ie. no re-configuring) then you would have to still do what they force us to do now. Level up 3 mech variants of the same chasis, to master/elite levels. That's a big c-bill sink. If you include it as part of premium time, it's an incentive to sign up for it if that's your preferred game mode. With this they get the actual cash without waiting for c-bill poor players to use MC to help themselves along.

The Stock mech you get would not be customizable at all, and maybe even require you to buy a mech bay for it.

More profit.

[Postumus]

The only way you make stock mechs profitable is with repair and rearm, which I don't see coming back (at least until CW comes out). When we DID have R&R, you did start to see some economy builds, like the zombie centurion (fastest standard engine, 2 M-pulse in the CT), because those builds maximized your C-Bill gain. R&R definitely gave a monetary incentive not to use Artemis and XL engines, because you had to rearm your Artemis missiles for double cost, and losing an XL-equipped mech could set you back an entire match's profits.

For the hypothetical CW scenario, R&R would tie into merc corp combat and the larger economy. If, for example, you had a mechanic in community warfare for merc corps to bid on contracts to fight for a planet, you would want to take the cheapest mechs that can get the job done, because that would increase your profits. If you win the contract with the lowest bid, it makes way more sense to take a bunch of stock mechs that hardly cost anything to lose, versus walking piles of golden lostech.

[Rebas Kradd]

LauLiao, on 02 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Why in the world would I want to pay to play with a gimped mech?

Because it provides a balanced game.

[Alistair Winter]

Postumus, on 02 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

The only way you make stock mechs profitable is with repair and rearm, which I don't see coming back

Did you just read the title of the thread and reply immediately without reading anything else? Because you pretty much missed the entire point of this thread and actually gave an answer to why stock mechs are NOT profitable for PGI.

Making stock mechs a viable choice for the normal queue via R&R removes the need for a grind. It makes stock mechs profitable for the player, and it reduces profit for PGI.

That's not what this thread is about.

Lexx, on 02 September 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

The problem with stock only matches in MWO is that even if you don't allow champion or hero mechs, there are a few stock mechs are just better than the others. Mechs like the Cicada 3M, Griffin 3M and Wolverine 7K, just to name a few. Some stocks mechs have double heat sinks, endo steel and large XL engines as well as more and better weaponry.
Everyone would just use the few stock mechs that are better than the rest and there would be very little variety.

So that would be kind of like having customization and then everyone just plays the Shadow Hawk, Jagermech, Banshee, Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf and Storm Crow, because those have the best hardpoints and hitboxes. Right?

Soo.... pretty much the same lack of variety we have right now? Or are you seeing a lot of Locusts and Quickdraws in your matches?

[Widowmaker1981]

Alistair Winter, on 03 September 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

Did you just read the title of the thread and reply immediately without reading anything else? Because you pretty much missed the entire point of this thread and actually gave an answer to why stock mechs are NOT profitable for PGI.

Making stock mechs a viable choice for the normal queue via R&R removes the need for a grind. It makes stock mechs profitable for the player, and it reduces profit for PGI.

That's not what this thread is about.


So that would be kind of like having customization and then everyone just plays the Shadow Hawk, Jagermech, Banshee, Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf and Storm Crow, because those have the best hardpoints and hitboxes. Right?

Soo.... pretty much the same lack of variety we have right now? Or are you seeing a lot of Locusts and Quickdraws in your matches?

Except that the difference between a well loaded sub par chassis and a well loaded meta chassis is a great deal smaller than the gulf between the few good stock mechs and the rest of them. With the exception of 4-5 chassis right now, everything is entirely useable, if not perfect. there are about what.. 4? stock mech builds that are halfway decent. the rest are steaming piles of fail with not enough ammo to fight one mech without running out.

I would never play stock, because building mech designs is 50% of the fun for me. However i obviously don't care if other people want it, as long as im not forced into it.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 03 September 2014 - 01:35 AM.

[Zolaz]

The only way Stock mechs can be profitable is Repair and Rearm. If there is a cost for using better tech then there is a reason to use cheaper and less costly equipment. There isnt enough population to split queues, just look how long it takes to connect to a game now.

[Joseph Mallan]

its a good idea. I personally will not buy Premium time to play Stock Mechs. It seems Oxymoronic to me.

[Wolfways]

Here's an idea of how it could be more profitable. More people might play more.

I doubt there would suddenly be a load of players saying they'll only play stock mode, and there's no reason to change anything from the current game except have a stock only option when buying mechs and numbers/side and/or tonnage restrictions if it was clan v IS (although higher ammo/ton would be a good idea). People will still grind for skills, modules, etc. and buy Hero mechs (i don't see a reason to not include them).

[Bilbo]

Rebas Kradd, on 02 September 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

Because it provides a balanced game.

It does not bring balance. The balance is the same. It simply slows TTK. It does do that quite well though.

[General Taskeen]

process, on 02 September 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

Stock mode:

- no customization
- no earned C-bills
- no pilot efficiencies
- 1/2 armor values
- 4 default stock mechs, equivalent to the Founder's four.

Without earned C-bills, you still have to participate in the standard gameplay grind or shell out MC to purchase additional mechs.

It's a bonus mode for current, probably already paying players, and still creates incentive for new players to pay into the game.

Bonus Mode? Stock mode has been in practically every MW game as a basic addition to the game. It was a basic campaign option in Battle Tech and still is in MegaMek. The "standard" game of customization you refer to is not that great and has nothing to do with actual BattleTech. And 1/2 armor is a terrible idea.

And if there is a stock mode ever in this game I damn well better be able to earn XP and gain C-Bills by playing BT mode.

I suggest if people have their doubts about how Stock Mode actually plays and want to see what stock matches are like is to just join up, you don't need a mic, and you'll get to view the variety, longer gameplay, and actual roles each Mech has.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 September 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Sign me up! 50mc per match seems a bit high though, but I'm sure the numbers would get tweaked.

[Prezimonto]

Alistair Winter, on 02 September 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

There's no way in hell I'm ever buying Premium time again. But I would definitely do it if Premium time gave me access to a Stock mech queue. I'm willing to pay for new content, not to reduce the grind.
Any other suggestions?

Content is what's been missing for a long time. Payment in this game gains you access to less grind and rewards your impatience for mech release schedules, but there's so little content it's very hard to want to drop money for these things lately. I'll just do without, as the game is relatively boring on a daily basis, and I already have quite a few mechs to play.
Lobbies. Make certain options in lobbies require premium time to start the match, or use those rules sets. We already sort of have this, but lobbies would let people more easily find the kind of game they want to play. I'd buy MC or premium time if I could start an open game with Stock Mech rules for various Eras, and know I could open it up and fill it with pubs whenever I get a change to play.

[Prezimonto]

Sandpit, on 02 September 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

That's the issue I see it having. The ones who are going to enjoy and utilize stock mode most are going to be actual Btech players. new players are going to do the customization more often than not.


I do, however, disagree with stock mechs being "bad". They aren't "bad", stock mechs were, are, and have been used quite well for the better part of nearly 30 years now.

They're only "bad" when placed again min/max optimized builds

There's obvious flaws with a lot of stock builds inside the rules sets and mechanics employed by this game. Most notable is a lack of ammo. When you've only got 15 tons for weapons and you take up 7 tons or more for ammo dependent weapons, one ton of ammo doesn't justify the tonnage cost. Very low armor on certain builds is highly exacerbated in this game as well with pin-point damage an aim. Otherwise I agree, most stock mechs are viable when fighting other stock mechs, even very lightly customized mechs (when XL/ENDO aren't readily available you can't free enough tonnage to make MASSIVELY more powerful builds in most cases without also making serious agility and speed tradeoffs).

Edited by Prezimonto, 04 September 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[Fut]

Sandpit, on 02 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

I'd also include a "make your own hero mech" feature which would allow players to create (for a fee) their very own "hero" mech. One mech out of their hangar can be designated as their "signature" mech. Only one, not transferable, etc.

Love this idea.
I've been mentioning something along these lines for awhile now. Although, in my suggestion a Mech could only become a "Hero" after it has been Mastered, and it would cost a certain amount of Mech XP to complete the transformation (ie. After you pay the ~20K MXP to unlock the Master, you would have to save up another 100K MXP on that chassis to unlock the Hero).

[ApolloKaras]

Im fine with paying premium time and doing stock Mech Mondays. If it was available to me all the time I would probably spend the majority of my time in the stock queue, which means that 50 MC will rack up quickly...

[BarHaid]

I’ve been ruminating on this a bit, and I think Alistair’s concept could work well. More importantly, it could be easily implemented by PGI. When you buy Premium Time, the stock queue becomes available to choose. The alert icon will flash if your currently chosen mech doesn’t match stock specifications, and won’t let you launch. Matchmaker starts with 4v4 battles and ups to 8v8 and 12v12 as the queue populates.
Now, obviously the coding behind this will take up resources; so I’d like to see some actual community warfare in place first. But PGI? This is something you should do.

[Almond Brown]

HammerMaster, on 02 September 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Stock mode should still pay.

Well then make them BUY 4 Stock MechBays (permanent) for those Stock Chassis...

Edited by Almond Brown, 04 September 2014 - 09:52 AM.