237 replies to this topic

[yalk]

I like your posting style and the jokes sprinkled throughout

Make more pls

[ninjitsu]

I'm not sure what just happened here, but I feel like I should give Kiiyor money.

[Ultimax]

Jman5, on 06 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

There were 413 hunchback data points which comes out to almost exactly middle of the pack in terms of frequency. So he had enough to get a good average.

I was kind of surprised how low on the scoring it was, but let's be logical for a moment:


1) It's a medium mech, 50 tons. Not the ideal zone for performance.
2) It has a clearly defined "shoot me" location, that is almost impossible to miss.
3) A lot of the builds around it, are short range.
4) It's land locked.
5) It often gets, erroneously, recommended to new players.


That doesn't really explain it, but it doesn't have a lot going for it for an average player who might not really know how to make the most of it.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Ultimatum X, on 06 September 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

I was kind of surprised how low on the scoring it was, but let's be logical for a moment:


1) It's a medium mech, 50 tons. Not the ideal zone for performance.
2) It has a clearly defined "shoot me" location, that is almost impossible to miss.
3) A lot of the builds around it, are short range.
4) It's land locked.
5) It often gets, erroneously, recommended to new players.


That doesn't really explain it, but it doesn't have a lot going for it for an average player who might not really know how to make the most of it.

You left out the part where they also have to be slow as a turtle, because an XL in a hunchie is like wearing a swastika to a holocaust museum.

After finishing the basics on 3 hunchbacks tonight and getting ready to do the next step... I had to log off to keep myself from selling them before I can finally wash my hands of them. They aren't even fun to pilot for the novelty and I regret picking them up more than when I did the Awesomes.

Edited by lockwoodx, 06 September 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Ultimatum X, on 06 September 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

I was kind of surprised how low on the scoring it was, but let's be logical for a moment:


1) It's a medium mech, 50 tons. Not the ideal zone for performance.
2) It has a clearly defined "shoot me" location, that is almost impossible to miss.
3) A lot of the builds around it, are short range.
4) It's land locked.
5) It often gets, erroneously, recommended to new players.


That doesn't really explain it, but it doesn't have a lot going for it for an average player who might not really know how to make the most of it.

I think points 4 and 5 are the bigger catalysts.

TBH, when I saw the hunch data, I expected it to be a lot higher. I had a look through the samples after that, trying to see if there was anything obvious pointing to it's poor performance, but depressingly I found that the sample appeared to be robust. Lots of unique players, and a surprisingly low standard deviation with the results, meaning that more people were performing close to the average. The 4SP used to be a god. Heck, Koreanese kicked butt in the laserback in some of the tournaments last year.

When you compare it to a mech like the Shawk, there are a lot of similarities; high mounted ballistics, and a decent mix of energy. It's only 5 tonnes lighter than the Shawk, but the Shawk I think has better hitboxes, and the JJ's, they really add to it's survivability.

And that's the big one - survivability. The Shawk can peek and shoot, and it's JJ's can let it get to cover, or make a nice bouncing brawler. The Hunchback is a brawler also, but a brawler that can't take hits, and is easy-peasy to hit. One shot from a direwolf or metacat can utterly remove it from the battle. If you run an XL for speed, you can be one-shot. If you run a standard for survivability, you can't carry enough dakka to make a difference in battle.

I really do write too much in posts.

[El Bandito]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

It took almost a whole freaking day before I could hit the submit post button!

Imagine if you couldn't post due to error, and you had to do the formatting all over again.

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

But are they just better mechs? Could it be that the people buying them are already decent players who can recognize the potential of the mech, and less 'bad' players are piloting them because they simply aren't buying the mech? I don't know... but the numbers are at least an indication of performance. If people are going to argue, they can at least be (moderately) informed!

I am one of those pilots who "recognized the potential" of the Ember, but my KDR with it is still abysmal because I normally do not pilot Lights. So there is that.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 September 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[Kiiyor]

El Bandito, on 06 September 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Imagine if you couldn't post due to error, and you had to do the formatting all over again.

I'm not going to lie to you. I hit the back button by accident at one stage, and had what can only be referred to as a hissy fit.

When I hit forward, it was all there. I then started copy pasting the whole post into Word, lol.

Coming soon! Some win rate data. I've calculated your chances of winning a game if you have more or less clan mechs thant he opposing team.

[Too Much Love]

"The most drastic and telling figure out of all of this, to me, is the match result change. Fights are far more one sided now. Crapper matches are crapper for everyone. How can this be? "

They changed matchmaker once again, and it became worse. It's a pure matchmaker problem.

[Ultimax]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

I think points 4 and 5 are the bigger catalysts.

TBH, when I saw the hunch data, I expected it to be a lot higher. I had a look through the samples after that, trying to see if there was anything obvious pointing to it's poor performance, but depressingly I found that the sample appeared to be robust. Lots of unique players, and a surprisingly low standard deviation with the results, meaning that more people were performing close to the average. The 4SP used to be a god. Heck, Koreanese kicked butt in the laserback in some of the tournaments last year.

When you compare it to a mech like the Shawk, there are a lot of similarities; high mounted ballistics, and a decent mix of energy. It's only 5 tonnes lighter than the Shawk, but the Shawk I think has better hitboxes, and the JJ's, they really add to it's survivability.

And that's the big one - survivability. The Shawk can peek and shoot, and it's JJ's can let it get to cover, or make a nice bouncing brawler. The Hunchback is a brawler also, but a brawler that can't take hits, and is easy-peasy to hit. One shot from a direwolf or metacat can utterly remove it from the battle. If you run an XL for speed, you can be one-shot. If you run a standard for survivability, you can't carry enough dakka to make a difference in battle.

I really do write too much in posts.

It's quite possible.

Having JJs on the Shadowhawk allows for all kinds of options on combat.


Although I'd argue the STD engine issue.


A 250 to 275 backed up with high damage/ton weapons is pretty much the bread and butter of medium mechs and will see a hunchback moving around 80-100kph.

You need to be patient, you need to hug your fatties.

Also while the hunch is easy to see/shoot, it also does allow for ridge humping and keeping most of your body hidden if there is cover available.

[Mothykins]

Sweet. I'mma gonna flood you with Locust 1V-P Match end screens.


But Holy Numbers, Batman. Colour me impressed, that's a whole lotta work into a game analysis. Some of those numbers where not expected.

[Ghillie Dhu]

As my old dad use to say ... practice , practice , practice ... is mechs been out a lot longer.

[Kiiyor]

drunkblackstar, on 06 September 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

"The most drastic and telling figure out of all of this, to me, is the match result change. Fights are far more one sided now. Crapper matches are crapper for everyone. How can this be? "

They changed matchmaker once again, and it became worse. It's a pure matchmaker problem.

Yep - BUT (and hear me out on this) I think it's also a numbers problem. The 'Sphere has the numbers to ENFORCE!!! 4x3, and it appears that the weight range is indeed more evenly spread for the great houses and miscellaneous rabble (before 4x3, it was top heavy). However, it seems that out of all the people that purchased clan mechs, a quarter bought Direwolves, and an eighth purchased everything else that isn't a MadCat.

This means that the clans are extremely top heavy. It doesn't help that Clan lights are garbage (well, it certainly helps the IS!) but my prediction is that things will even out once the Clan mechs are available for cBills, because at the moment, the clan panthenon is infested with heavies and assaults.

The data was also taken before the CrapFox was available for cBills.

God help the IS if the Clans get a decent light, though.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Kiiyor ... spent about a half an hour uploading and sending about 210 EOM screenshots ... been meaning to do that for a while.

I hope they aren't too out of date to be useful (all taken since your previous data update).

[Kiiyor]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 06 September 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Kiiyor ... spent about a half an hour uploading and sending about 210 EOM screenshots ... been meaning to do that for a while.

I hope they aren't too out of date to be useful (all taken since your previous data update).

Nope, they will be magnificent. I'm keen to get enough data to make all the sample mechs viable for comparison, some just don't have enough representation. Thanks!

[Fire and Salt]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

God help the IS if the Clans get a decent light, though.

So true.


But what if IS gets a decent assault. Not one of them can hold dual gauss or dual AC20. Wheres the Mauler?!?!

Kiiyor, on 07 September 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

Nope, they will be magnificent. I'm keen to get enough data to make all the sample mechs viable for comparison, some just don't have enough representation. Thanks!

I'm assuming that you aren't using an OCR program, and it makes my fingers hurt.

[El Bandito]

Kiiyor, on 06 September 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

God help the IS if the Clans get a decent light, though.

And that decent Light just happens to have ECM.

http://www.sarna.net.../Arctic_Cheetah

[Kiiyor]

Fire and Salt, on 07 September 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

So true.


But what if IS gets a decent assault. Not one of them can hold dual gauss or dual AC20. Wheres the Mauler?!?!



I'm assuming that you aren't using an OCR program, and it makes my fingers hurt.

I am actually using OCR, or I'd have gone insane by now! Also, King Crab! Accept no substitutes!

El Bandito, on 07 September 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

And that decent Light just happens to have ECM.

http://www.sarna.net.../Arctic_Cheetah

Imagine that thing with CSRMs....

[Voodle]

Seeing the statistics presented like this is fascinating so thank you for putting it all together

I concur with the RVN-4X being the worst mech but in my case, it's because I was trying to grind its basic efficiencies without spending anything on it. It had an XL engine borrowed from another mech, no DHS, it was absolutely awful to play and I suspect that my experience and reasoning was the same as other people, its hardpoints aren't useful for a light (ime) and it's possible that people only use it to do exactly what I did

(hmm, or maybe it was me in those EOM screenshots??)

Edited by Voodle, 07 September 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[CharlieChap]

Very cool post and follow up comments Kiiyor. Thank you very much.

[Mcgral18]

Ghillie Dhu, on 06 September 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

As my old dad use to say ... practice , practice , practice ... is mechs been out a lot longer.

All mechs play pretty much the same, IS or Clan doesn't change that. Just about all Clan mechs are mastered by now as well. I don't see much difference coming over the next few weeks.

Kiiyor, on 07 September 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

Have you thrown this in the Meme thread yet?
I think it would fit in wonderfully there.

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 September 2014 - 07:54 AM.