237 replies to this topic

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

El Bandito, on 09 September 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

The amount of time I see sub 50 damage Direwhales is too damn high.

Those would be the poor guys who got left behind by their team and ganked from behind by a one or two smart lights. Happens fairly often on River City.

[El Bandito]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 09 September 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Those would be the poor guys who got left behind by their team and ganked from behind by a one or two smart lights. Happens fairly often on River City.

Unless they are LRM boats--which Direwhales are not--that is simply not enough excuse for such shoddy performance, for "skilled" Clanners.

[Kiiyor]

Pika, on 09 September 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

While this is all great and I love the data, does this also take into account the little fact that... well let's be honest, the people buying the Clan Mechs are much more invested in the game AND Battletech and have probably (Probably being the key word) Played longer?

They're usually just straight up better players in those mechs. Is that not skewing the numbers or am I just being blissfully ignorant?

This is a VERY good point, and one i've been pondering over. Not just for the Clan mechs either; it can also likely explain the position of certain Hero mechs in the mech-on-paper battles in my OP. I'm not saying that it's 100% player skill driving those mechs to their positions in the data (as the Ember and Misery have fantastic hardpoints) but that it's very likely a contributing factor.

The hard thing is justifying numbers around how many established players purchased the Clan packs, as I imagine there were a lot of people sitting on the sidelines of the franchise waiting for their OP Clan machines to arrive before they jumped into the game.

That might also explain somewhat the increase in Clan performance post 4x3 - those brand n00bs would likely have been rekt, over and over, until they realized that Clan mechs don't quite rule in MWO as much as they do in TT or other MW games. Maybe they wandered away in frustration, leaving the better players in their place.

WHO KNOWS. It's all speculation!

[Pht]

deputydog, on 09 September 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Clans were never meant for a FPS game and you know it. FASA designed them for 2d6 with random hit locations.

The hit locations aren't random.

In fact, I bet kiiyor could tell you in obscenely detailed math terms that they're not random, now that I've linked him to the actual maths; of course, that would be more properly done in the thread I linked him to than dragging this thread off topic.

(In fact, kiiyor, that would be very welcomed in the thread I linked you to. I bet those HLT's would result in a very nice color per zone coincided to % hit" pics, and given the stuff you have in this thread already, you could probably do it in your sleep while those EOM's are processing. Just an FYI, the basic table represents aiming for center of mass vs a mobile target.)

Unless, of course, by "random" you mean "fall within a predictable range" ... a range controllable by ... shocking ... player choices (even in the tt) ... a range that would be dictated also by ... player skill... when converted into the first person shooter format... a set of ranges that collectively, according to the BT line developer represent the battlemech's ability to get the weapons mounted to it to hit what it's pilot is tracking...

I find it interesting that you don't even bother to attempt to explain how things like BV, rarity, expense, maintenance costs in time and c-bills, etc, can't possibly be a valid halter on clantech... instead you go right for the FUD meme of "2d6... FPS ... BAD BAD!"

Quote

I'm 40 years old and this argument has never been solved in all my years of playing battletech and mechwarrior and mux type games.

Yes, because being 40 and never deciding that a thing has not been solved means not only has it not been solved, it CAN'T be solved! Because 40 years and your personal experiences are infallible.

Here's a thought - the argument's been going on for so long because, for one thing, ignorant false posts like the one I'm replying to here. A good counter-argument would be welcomed, but I personally doubt it'll happen.

Edited by Pht, 10 September 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Draken X]

Why the Clan UAC has a crazy rate of fire?

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Thanks for your fantastic work, Kiiyor. Sent what little I have of EOM screenshots, hope is helps.
Hope not to miss your next Science topic, the forums are so lively...

[Mcgral18]

Draken X, on 11 September 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

Why the Clan UAC has a crazy rate of fire?

Because they fire lower damage rounds to deal the same damage as IS ACs.

Those 5 uAC20 rounds deal 4 damage each.

[Yukichi Fukuzawa]

Great Research OP. Keep it up.

[Void Angel]

I'm making a note here: "huge success."

[Void Angel]

By the way, Kiiyor, could we gets a ranking of 'mechs in each class - for science? I'm curious to see how Hunchbacks perform v. Shadowhawks v. Cicadas v. etc, for example.

[Kiiyor]

Void Angel, on 22 September 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

By the way, Kiiyor, could we gets a ranking of 'mechs in each class - for science? I'm curious to see how Hunchbacks perform v. Shadowhawks v. Cicadas v. etc, for example.

Yep, i'm on it. Ive got the template set up, so I can just switch mech names. It even adds the pictures, lol.

I'm waiting until I've got the majority of new data sorted though - there's around 10,000 matches being crunched, I think. That's insane. Next day or two, and i'll be able to add it to the stuff I already have, and THEN WE'LL SEE.

I've also got dates for most of the screenshots, so there's some interesting timeline stuff coming.

[Void Angel]

I'm sure we'll be able to discover it together, for science. You monster.

[r4plez]

And this i call SCIENCE - you're better than whole PGI stuff when comes to delivering stats!

[KalamMehkar]

I can't believe you put this together in your spare time - amazing what some people consider entertaining!!

Very, very cool collection of data and statistics - many thanks for putting this together. I do believe I'll be sending you EOM SS. For science!

[Vassago Rain]

I can't believe we don't have more numbers.
Do you want another multi-gig rar?

[Kiiyor]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

I can't believe we don't have more numbers.
Do you want another multi-gig rar?

SOON™.

I'm 80% or so through this:



I was hoping to have them up tonight, but after a couple of Excel hissy fits, i'm required to be extremely gentle with it. No loud noises, and no undue stress.

And YES to the screens.

EDIT: and welcome back

Edited by Kiiyor, 27 September 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[mongo2006]

This post is awesome, it brings light to the darkness of MWO. Finally with this post and your continued work the community has facts to work with when it comes to the balance wars (to nerf or not to nerf, that is the question).. no matter what side you fall on.

I have an idea how much work went into your data extraction, analysis and data displays. I'm just saying I appreciate it keep it up PLEASE!

[Vassago Rain]

Kiiyor, on 27 September 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

SOON™.

I'm 80% or so through this:



I was hoping to have them up tonight, but after a couple of Excel hissy fits, i'm required to be extremely gentle with it. No loud noises, and no undue stress.

And YES to the screens.

EDIT: and welcome back

I'm plugging this thread in my own guild. If anyone else is out there, link this thread on reddit and other forums, so we can have more numbers.

Just having a mere 100 more people submit stats, even if it's just a handful EOM screens each, would do so much. Will be putting together another gigantic rar by the middle of next week.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 27 September 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[aniviron]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Just having a mere 100 more people submit stats, even if it's just a handful EOM screens each, would do so much. Will be putting together another gigantic rar by the middle of next week.

Figured I would help out since I've started playing again, going to have ~100-200 screenshots to send in soon.

EDIT: My evil plan to skew the stats for the KFX-D continues apace!

Edited by aniviron, 27 September 2014 - 09:56 PM.

[Krasnopesky]

Thank you very much, all this data is excellent and interesting to read.