97 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

He can just not equip them - but doing so would be silly.

Having JJs at the start will make his gameplay easier, not harder.

When he goes to something land locked he'll at least already know most basic piloting skills, this stuff isn't rocket science man.

Yeah, after that he'll have to learn where the ramps on Canyon network are. This isn't a big deal, he can just follow the fatties.






Why wouldn't you learn how to torso twist on a Shadowhawk?D

Do you know what happens when you don't torso twist in a Shadowhawk?

Some Banshee, or Dire Wolf, or Warhawk, or Misery shows up and removes you from the field in 1 to 3 volleys.

This poor guy is going to hop into a hunchback and have his hunch blown off left right and center through his first 20 to 40 matches.


The last thing you need as a new player is a giant "shoot me" sign on a relatively wide body.


Playing mechs that have challenging design issues is great once you are good at the game, and are bored or you are a mech collector or nostalgic.

New players should be steered towards mechs that are clearly designed well, unanimously well liked and can perform well at the basic, moderate and advanced levels of play.

The Shadowhawk fits that definition.

You did read that I recommend the HBK-4SP first, right? You know, the one WIHTOUT a hunch. Once done with that, he can move to the G, to learn how to protect his hunch. Notice how it's not a hunch mech for starters. Unlike the SHD which has a hunch that everyone focuses, and due to having balanced hitboxes, can't be protected with front-loaded armor like a HBK's hunch can be.

[Escef]

IraqiWalker, on 07 September 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

The simplest and main reason to get the HBK (Hunchback) over the SHD (Shadowhawk) (I recommend the HBK 4SP first, since torso twisting is better learned AFTER you can pilot decently) is that the HBK does NOT have JJs.

Transitioning from a JJ mech to a non-JJ mech can be very hard, and using JJ mechs doesn't teach you to navigate terrain that well. Starting with a mech that has no JJs, allows you to work on basic movement, and piloting, learning how to move arounda map, and which ledges you can and can't climb. Whereas with a JJ mech, you hit an obstacle, you jump, and 80% of the time, you will forget about those obstacles.

Quite possibly the only reason to suggest a non-jumping mech over a jumping one. I recall when I was done leveling out my FS9s the first time I used non-jumping mechs in Canyon Network was a royal pain, I'd forgotten about how difficult climbing some of the embankments in the "wrong" spots was.

Perhaps we should stop and ask for what purpose we recommend the mechs we do. Most of us recommending the Shadowhawk are doing so because we are trying to recommend a mech that has long term value and playability. Those recommending the Hunch or Cent are trying to recommend mechs to teach specific skills. I don't suppose either is wrong, I just think the long term conservation of c-bills will help the newer and more casual players the most. There's always the trial Hunchies and Cents if people need/want to practice these skills. But when it comes time to plunk down c-bills, I prefer to recommend something that will give them the best value. Seriously, there's almost nothing you can do with a Cent or Hunch that a Shadowhawk can't do as well or better (HBK-4P's lasergeddon stands out as something you just can't do on a SHD).

[InspectorG]

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

JJs add ease of use.

If he wants to learn without JJs, he can just not equip them.

How many will actually run without?

Of course JJ add ease of use...once you learn them.

Is it easier to learn something more or less complex?
JJ are easy when ther is no fighting...but what will a noob do in a brawl with his JJ? Use them well? Not at all while he/she scrabmles to paint a moving target?

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

Nearly every shadowhawk can be played assymetrically, or with one shield arm.

How many will actually do it?
How many Noob builds do you see with random weapons shoved in any slot? You assume they know mechbuilding. HBK dumbs it down for them.

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

The few extra million he invests in a 300xl will be usable on half a dozen mechs.

How many other mechs is he realistically going to use a 275 STD on?

The xl300 is a good point, it will be versatile...later on.

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

Because he can add as much or as little "complexity" to the Shadowhawk as he likes.


Investing into 3 mechs for skills is a lot, better to start with something pretty much unanimously accepted as better.

Noobs will either jam whatever they can on a mech or copy comp meta...if they know what the current one is or where to find it/how to use it.

Shad IS a better mech...just not one to learn on. Too many moving parts.

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

You want him to learn simpler aspects, and yet you want to throw him into a land-locked mech that has to torso twist to protect his hunch or lose all of his weapons?

Sorry those aren't the "simpler" things to learn, you're contradicting yourself.

'Land locked' is one whole vector less of movement, how is that more complex?

HOW MANY NEWBS WILL USE JJ EFICIENTLY in the middle of a brawl? Answer: Few

Most will face their opponent face on and button mash when under pressure.

How many will, while being fired upon by 2+ opponents in close range think, 'i can turn then shoot, or i can jump and shoot while turning, or i can turn and run, or i can kite backwards'?

Wouldnt removing one of those not be simpler?

Losing the HBK hunch is a hard lesson, but you can live. The lesson being: better positioning, and, turn the torso to make it last longer.

Losing a ST with an XLengine is game over. The lesson: use jump and twist to mitigate it....but we come to the problem of remembering to JJ when stuff is bad...

Its like my boxing clients, first lesson is stance, and hands up. THATS IT. No big combos, no slips, no rolls, no counters, no dips, no parries, no advanced footwork, no tracing punches, no timing the opponents punch, no how to ight a southpaw...etc.
2 things...the main 2 things.

Why start them with 5 punch combos i they cant even stand with good balance?
Why show them how to slip punches i they cant even keep their hands up?

Know how to get a beginner to keep their hands up in a relatively quick manner?
When they drop their hands, gently slap them.

Hence the 'hunch'.

How to teach better positioning? Not by giving them the option of flying all willy-nilly when things get rough.
When options are fewer, you make better use of them and have fewer chances of getting confused.
HBK with a std250-257 engine will keep them near the heavies...usually a better place to be or a noob.

A faster Shad lets them wander all over leaving them confused as whether to run with the faster mechs or not. Go with the jumping mechs or not.
Too many options or a beginner.

HBK is simpler, and inferior to the Shad, but the disadvantages teach lessons without being solely a 'challenge' mech.
I think it is sufficiently 'Mario' enough to be training wheels for most noobs.

[cazidin]

The best starter mech, the best IS mech and the best mech overall is... The Urbie! (Hurray for 500th post!)

[Cranial Enigma]

Necro alert! Did we really need to bump a thread of almost 2 years old to spread the love of urbies?

[cazidin]

Cranial Enigma, on 10 March 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Necro alert! Did we really need to bump a thread of almost 2 years old to spread the love of urbies?

Sir. Are you suggesting that there is ever a bad time to spread the word of the Urbie?

[LordNothing]

i dont recommend lights or assaults for new players. lights die to easy and require a lot of high risk low reward tactics. in the right hands they can be monsters, but it takes a certain kind of player to pull it off. assaults are more for tactical thinkers, in an assault its more like a game of chess. positioning is important, making good use of intel is important. if you are pugging you are going to be left behind a lot, and while some assault pilots can handle that situation it takes skill and experience, neither of which a noob has.

mediums and heavies are very forgiving. they can get out of trouble easy and can last in a fight. its usually easy to keep up with the team and not to get separated. you will have enough firepower to matter, and enough armor to let you screw up a few times before you die.

i have to say i agree about the shadowhawk, its a great medium that can stand in for an assault in certain configurations. its got versitile hardpoints that let you try out a lot of different weapons. blackjack is also in a good place, so thats worth checking out if you want a laser/ballistic mech. for clan go with the stormcrow, it is a beast you can do almost any laser or missile config you can dream of, ballistic options are few you only have one arm i believe, but you can stick any gun you want in there for some gauss/uac20 action.

there are a lot of good heavies, jagers, mauraders, catafracts, and the list goes on. my current favorite is the ctf-im (no other mech can carry 3 is ac10s), but the oxp is also nice, gives you ecm, and the ability to carry an ac20 and some lasers. the hellbringer is its clan equivalent, but if you are going clan id get me a timby. its an all rounder that can boat any weapon type but can also mix and match for some great builds.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 March 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[Malachy Karrde]

Pandawaffle, on 06 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm new to MWO and have only tried the trial mechs thusfar. I was recommended to buy a hunchback for learning to play the game in a Twitch chatroom, but I would like a second opinion before I make the purchase. I've also looked up threads similar to my request in this one, but many of them are from 2013, and I would like something more up-to-date.
I've enjoyed the blackjack thusfar, but I have been hurt badly in games by the coordinated missile spam that clan-stacking groups commonly do, so a kit-out with ECM would be nice.

are you more interested in inner sphere or clan? The thunderbolt for inner sphere is a very forgiving mech that is decently tough. I'd avoid lights as a new player... it's almost as easy to kill a new player in a light as it is in an assault. If you are interested in clan, I'd recommend a hell bringer or a stormcrow. The hell bringer is about as easy to use as a thunderbolt and it can be configured for pretty much any role. The stormcrow is pretty overpowered and is a forgiving chassis for a medium. It's a lot tougher than anything the inner sphere has in the same weight class.

[P]

Pandawaffle, on 06 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm new to MWO and have only tried the trial mechs thusfar. I was recommended to buy a hunchback for learning to play the game in a Twitch chatroom, but I would like a second opinion before I make the purchase. I've also looked up threads similar to my request in this one, but many of them are from 2013, and I would like something more up-to-date.
I've enjoyed the blackjack thusfar, but I have been hurt badly in games by the coordinated missile spam that clan-stacking groups commonly do, so a kit-out with ECM would be nice.

Personally
Get the Crow, the Stormcrow, Be like Nox, Grab the Sun, on the way to Valhalla
Its the most versatile mek with good speed to run away from lurms, good firepower and a lil' tanky
If you want ECM, get the hellbringer, you can still have good firepower with ecm cover.

[GLaDOSauR]

Does no one giving advice realize that this thread is 2 years old? This guy probably is far beyond his newb years. Or else he stopped playing altogether judging by his post count.

[Dr Hobo]

Hunchback family,the 4P,J and G are my choices from there.

Centurion is also good XL+SRMs=Meatshields and oversized engines? Nothing like chasing Cheetos down with it.

Wolverine(shocking I know right?)

Shadowhawk.

I would even lean into the Blackjack.

If you want to play laser puke,I would also say the Crabs are a solid fast choice.

Why do I say those? All combine something useful. All tend to have weapons mounted on one side,so it's easier to learn the arts of cornering,twisting and in some case jumping around,the Wolvie even has a variant with MASC.

On the light side,I would reccomend the Locust. This will force you to learn how to engage properly,the M,3V and Peanutbutter are my favorites. However,the missile variants with a NARC are fun or SRM2s are fun too.

On the heavy side,I would suggest Catapults(specifically,splat cat,the one that has 2 missile mounts and the one with ballistics options). They show you how to use missiles(better than a 4J or Centurion can) and how to avoid them.

If you gotta have dakka dakka in your life,a triple UAC5 Rifleman or Jager are good options,but those tend to end up squishy.

For the big mechs,the Atlas,and King Crab are great,as is the Mauler if you are support oriented.

Basically,try all the trial mechs,and find what chassis fit you I can pick up mediums and most heavies quickly and easily,but assaults are lost to me.

[Bobdolemite]

Here is what I would choose if I could pick 1 chassis between each weight class:

Light - Firestarter (fast nimble..... deadly. But gets killed easily)

Medium - Shadowhawk (I also suggest the enforcer, this makes for a mean ballistic build / laser combo)

Heavy - Thunderbolt Or Cataphract (though the low slung arms on the cataphract can sometimes be tricky)

Assault - (many good options here) DDC Atlas for ECM - Awesome for the 8R since it is a premier LRM boat. Either is a solid choice (though there will be some groans on the awesome, IMO though the 8R is one of my favorite mechs)

[Idealsuspect]

cazidin, on 10 March 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

The best starter mech, the best IS mech and the best mech overall is... The Urbie! (Hurray for 500th post!)

cazidin, on 10 March 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Sir. Are you suggesting that there is ever a bad time to spread the word of the Urbie?

Stop bump necro thread you lame spammer...

[WazOfOz]

Panda, the problem with asking MWO foramites which mech is most newb friendly is that few of us agree on anything period, as you've probably noticed ..... good luck sorting through all this mate.

that being said. I would suggest Hunchbacks. they are relatively cheap and the different variants will allow you to try out different weapon types.

happy hunting mech warrior

[IraqiWalker]

WazOfOz, on 10 March 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

Panda, the problem with asking MWO foramites which mech is most newb friendly is that few of us agree on anything period, as you've probably noticed ..... good luck sorting through all this mate.

that being said. I would suggest Hunchbacks. they are relatively cheap and the different variants will allow you to try out different weapon types.

happy hunting mech warrior

Actually, as far as new player friendly mechs go, most of us have a consensus.

The problem here is that the thread is two years old, the OP hasn't touched the forums since the time he made the OP.

TO EVERYONE ELSE:

STOP NECRO'ING THREADS

Edited by IraqiWalker, 11 March 2016 - 03:40 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Stormcrow is the easiest mech in the game to play. Its fast and its hit boxes do not even require torso twisting. Problem with starting out with one is you will get lazy habits and won't be able to play other mechs.

[Glaucon]

Try the Thunderbolt trial heavy mech, I loved it when I first started with the game, I bought myself Thunderbolts after and mastered the chassis, and still play with the Thunderbolt 9SE frequently. Very tanky, easy to use and dangerous weapons system, good mobility.

[Coryphee]

The Thread is locked now.

The OP last activity is : Sep 06 2014

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