543 replies to this topic

[TKSax]

Gorgo7, on 10 September 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Yeah, and you know what? The dev's were right and the community was wrong. How about that? No harm came to the state of game play as a result of the the third person decision.

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Yeah, you notice how THAT little detail gets .....swept under the rug conveniently?

No Harm came, no that is not true, it may not have Harmed the game, but it certainly harmed the relationship PGI had with community, I mean just see the statement in my signature. I have no problem with PGI changing thier mind about 3pv, I had a problem with them dropping 3pv unannounced in the game with out the promised separate ques with not notice. That is what a lot of the people were pissed off about. However in 2014 they have been better and perfect example of this is the Launch Module, they missed the date on that, but they told us ahead of time, and when they could not get it function correctly with the match maker, they told us why and how they were going to fix it. Unlike how things were handled before when dates would be missed or features would be change and they would notify us after the fact.

Edited by TKSax, 10 September 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Never seen Freelancer or played it. But in truth, I find 90% of space fighter games have a lot of pretty homogenous looking ships, be it Transverse or Star Citizen, to Eve to TV scifi shows.

I mean, OMG, they have side thrust nacelles, forward cockpits and dorsal/belly guns...OMG!!!!

(Hey, anyone notice how most WWII fighters shared the same general shape and attributes, and most cold war fighters, and most Modern Gen 5 Fighters.....)ç

IDK, I suppose it could be a potential legality red flag though, in this day and age, but IMO, while not particularly excited about the new game (last Space Fighter game I played was WC3), I guess I just don't think it's a big deal.

Actually, EVE is one of the space games with many diverse looking ships.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 10 September 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

Well I don't know about him, but I saw you first last night.

No, I saw you long before you killed me. I was just too engaged with 2-3 of your friends thanks to a crappy effort by my side, to do anything about it.

I mean, I HAD already killed one of your guys Direwolfs, and was about 1 shot from killing that Stormcrow, WITH A LOCKED VINDICATOR (oh the shame!), when you rudely interrupted our dance. (Since I was already dodging 2 Lights the whole time, too).

Not sure how much credit you actually get for that one, buddy!

[AlmightyAeng]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 10 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Actually, EVE is one of the space games with many diverse looking ships.

Most of Roberts' games have pretty diverse ships, too, actually, with a lot of neat asymmetrical inclusion. Early space games ended up with a lot of symmetrical "plane" types...but they branched out pretty quickly into a pretty wide variety

Edited by Ghost Badger, 10 September 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Logan Hawke, on 10 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Gotta be honest Bishop, while bringing down the forum rage and vitriol is a good thing, you're talking about stooping to their level and worse. Better to just ignore them and have a mod delete any problem posts of theirs from threads they are disrupting.

Which is why I am not actually proposing to do it. What I am doing is using it as an example of how despicable THEIR tactics are, and how "unfair" people would feel if it was done to them, quiaff? (usually, when one says "imagine for a minute" it is a fantasy or hypothetical, not a call to arms, lol)

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

No, I saw you long before you killed me. I was just too engaged with 2-3 of your friends thanks to a crappy effort by my side, to do anything about it.

I mean, I HAD already killed one of your guys Direwolfs, and was about 1 shot from killing that Stormcrow, WITH A LOCKED VINDICATOR (oh the shame!), when you rudely interrupted our dance. (Since I was already dodging 2 Lights the whole time, too).

Not sure how much credit you actually get for that one, buddy!

Revisionist history right there good sir. Truth be told I didn't even notice you were in the game until you said something, and I decided your Vindicator needed squished.

[Bishop Steiner]

TKSax, on 10 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

No Harm came, no that is not true, it may not have Harmed the game, but it certainly harmed the relationship PGI had with community, I mean just see the statement in my signature. I have no problem with PGI changing thier mind about 3pv, I had a problem with them dropping 3pv unannounced in the game with out the promised separate ques with not notice. That is what a lot of the people were pissed off about. However in 2014 they have been better and perfect example of this is the Launch Module, they missed the date on that, but they told us ahead of time, and when they could not get it function correctly with the match maker, they told us why and how they were going to fix it. Unlike how things were handled before when dates would be missed or features would be change and they would notify us after the fact.

And how much of the harm, was propagated by players, on the forum, stirring the pot to a boil? Did PGI mishandle it? Absolutely.

(I am curious how much truth there was to the rumors that PGI was being mandated to communicate less by IGP. Mind you, these rumours, are not proven, and greatly predate the announced split. I suppose the only way we will know is by how they act in the present and future, quiaff? But it is interesting that PGI became a Black Hole in 2013, but in 2014, they let Garth go, they started in secret a new venture with a new partner, and they hatched a plan specifically to free themselves of IGP. Coincidence? Possibly, but I am not a huge believer in it, but I do believe Occam's Razor)

I believe the point, more or less though, is: People still hold 3pV as "PGI doesn't Listen to us", whereas they refuse to acknowledge "PGI didn't listen to us, because in this instance, we were WRONG".

Are there other facets to that? yep. But this part of the conversation was largely based off a post from MischiefSC about opinions, validity thereof and how to express them if you want them listened to. And this is an example where the consensus (aka majority Forum Opinion, my own included) was wrong. Be we conveniently avoid admitting that, or try to obfuscate it with peripherals.

WarHippy, on 10 September 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Revisionist history right there good sir. Truth be told I didn't even notice you were in the game until you said something, and I decided your Vindicator needed squished.

Yes, you revised History by saying you saw me first.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Yet one that their Publisher, IGP pushed on them (per Paul) in their attempt to "mainline FPS" MWO in a typical misguided Publisher attempt to further monetize things (thinking it would bring in hordes of new players).

And hey, there are a fair number of new players who do use it. And eventually they learn 1pV is better and switch.

Don't you think it's time to stop relying on IGP as a scapegoat for everything? Le't look at what PGI decided to focus on right after leaving the evil IGP that forced on them to do clan pack 1 when then didn't want to. So now fully in control over MWO they decide to do.... another clan pack? When they were reluctant to even do clan pack 1 in the first place before all the other things MWO needs to fix and add? Yeah it's all IGP's fault, right.....

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 10 September 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Don't you think it's time to stop relying on IGP as a scapegoat for everything? Le't look at what PGI decided to focus on right after leaving the evil IGP that forced on them to do clan pack 1 when then didn't want to. So now fully in control over MWO they decide to do.... another clan pack? When they were reluctant to even do clan pack 1 in the first place before all the other things MWO needs to fix and add? Yeah it's all IGP's fault, right.....

Perhaps you would note I state things as "reportedly", etc? Because neither you, nor I, know the whole story. But to an objective observer, and anyone who has dealt with Publishers, PGIs story is certainly far from implausible. But as your posts continue to show, you are disposed to find any reason why PGI could be wrong, real, or imagined, and so you will keep posting thusly.

[PANZERKAT]

Despite my negativity I would assume that the Clans were done in a batch and if these few new mechs weren't totally done at that time of release, they must have partially been completed. I agree though, when they come out and say that IGP forced them to release the Clan pack, saying you have another one coming and OH M GEE, we'll also be working on a new title probably isn't the best of public relations.

Simply ridiculous.

Waiting until a new map was actually out and more CW would have helped with good will in announcing another pack....or a game mode...something not mechs.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 10 September 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Perhaps you would note I state things as "reportedly", etc? Because neither you, nor I, know the whole story. But to an objective observer, and anyone who has dealt with Publishers, PGIs story is certainly far from implausible. But as your posts continue to show, you are disposed to find any reason why PGI could be wrong, real, or imagined, and so you will keep posting thusly.

I can't help but notice that you fail to give me a reason why the business model and focus of development is just the same whether under the direction of the bad, evil IGP or under their own control? It's just business as usual, no matter who's holding the reins. It's a fact, not some made up theory. It's happening right now, will be introduced next week. Believe in what you have, not what they tell you will happen is a pretty healthy approach to MWO.

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 10 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

I can't help but notice that you fail to give me a reason why the business model and focus of development is just the same whether under the direction of the bad, evil IGP or under their own control? It's just business as usual, no matter who's holding the reins. It's a fact, not some made up theory. It's happening right now, will be introduced next week. Believe in what you have, not what they tell you will happen is a pretty healthy approach to MWO.

Cool. So is looking at their recent history and track record, instead of clinging to the past, and a bunch of stuff shrouded in the fog of time, that we really don't know the details of. Fact, while still slow, in 2014, PGI has been much more open in communication, specific in goals, and trying to set dates, and yes, even communicating more (though still not perfectly) when things get derailed. In all areas, far improved over the fiasco that was 2013.

But instead you want to argue the merits of what is Fall, as a way to claim that PGI is again failing.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 September 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Cool. So is looking at their recent history and track record, instead of clinging to the past, and a bunch of stuff shrouded in the fog of time, that we really don't know the details of. Fact, while still slow, in 2014, PGI has been much more open in communication, specific in goals, and trying to set dates, and yes, even communicating more (though still not perfectly) when things get derailed. In all areas, far improved over the fiasco that was 2013.

But instead you want to argue the merits of what is Fall, as a way to claim that PGI is again failing.

Dude did you even read my post? I especially like how you're trying to derail the discussion by referring to fall discussion again, something that you yourself said had nothing to do with the issue discussed in this thread. So what gives? Is it suddenly relevant to talk about that now?

You've been around here for a while Bishop, surely you must recognize the pattern when PGI suddenly starts communicating and showing their presence a lot more in the forums? It's time for selling big stuff! They do it every time they want to sell mech packs, the big guys come into the forum and listen to feedback and show concern. Until the sale is over, then quite quickly goes back to radio silence. Just think back a little, there is a clear pattern there.

Edited by Torgun, 10 September 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

*rolls eyes*

Yeah. .....mmmm. Trying to apply Rolands advice here dude. Gonna just leave it alone. Believe that if you want.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 September 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Roland]

Given how the PGI $tarCitizen appears, I'm a bit reluctant to let PGI off the hook as having all of their missteps and cash grabbiness being due to IGP.

PGI $tar Citizen is kind of ridiculous in how overt a copy of Star Citizen it is, obviously purely as a moneymaking scheme.

And yes, before anyone says anything, all businesses should be concerned with making money... but Chris Roberts obviously has a passion for making his game. I get NONE of that when it comes to $tar Citizen. Because you can't have passion for something if it's just a straight up copy, even down to the website, of someone else's dream.

And that whole fiasco is PURE PGI. It looks bad.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

*rolls eyes*

Yeah. .....mmmm. Trying to apply Rolands advice here dude. Gonna just leave it alone. Believe that if you want.

I guess you do recall the way PGi handles things right before a mech pack sale, don't you? Never mind, I don't really care whether you admit you do or not, you're not someone I know and care about if they waste their money on a game that isn't really going anywhere. But for your sake you really should consider what I pointed out in my last posts, if only for the $$$ you could save and put into something more worthwhile. Either way it doesn't really matter to me.

Edited by Torgun, 10 September 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

Roland, on 10 September 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

Given how the PGI $tarCitizen appears, I'm a bit reluctant to let PGI off the hook as having all of their missteps and cash grabbiness being due to IGP.

PGI $tar Citizen is kind of ridiculous in how overt a copy of Star Citizen it is, obviously purely as a moneymaking scheme.

And yes, before anyone says anything, all businesses should be concerned with making money... but Chris Roberts obviously has a passion for making his game. I get NONE of that when it comes to $tar Citizen. Because you can't have passion for something if it's just a straight up copy, even down to the website, of someone else's dream.

And that whole fiasco is PURE PGI. It looks bad.

Sure making a game not an existing IP makes sense. That crap costs mega bucks. So, what do they do? Ride off the coat tails of existing or in dev titles. Brilliant.

[Gorgo7]

I wonder if Piranha will be shocked to discover that they are unable to raise much in the way of subscription money for a new space game?
I can't see it happening through start-up, donations or people dreaming of a new and improved MMMOG. They are going to have an uphill battle ahead of them I would prophesize...
I will be watching very closely indeed.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gorgo7, on 10 September 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I wonder if Piranha will be shocked to discover that they are unable to raise much in the way of subscription money for a new space game?
I can't see it happening through start-up, donations or people dreaming of a new and improved MMMOG. They are going to have an uphill battle ahead of them I would prophesize...
I will be watching very closely indeed.

Yeah. I have some cautious optimism about MWO, with the license being solely owned by PGI now. But..... my magic 8ball ain't so sure about Transverse.

I will watch, and hope it succeeds, but even if I do play, I don't see it being for quite some time in the future.

[Demoncard]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

Got any hard facts?

I'm adding my opinion to this thread full of opinions. There's no burden of proof involved.

Take this button for your troubles.