543 replies to this topic

[Kirkland Langue]

BLOOD WOLF, on 08 September 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

So let me ask you and this is only pertaining to the promise of CW. When they release it, are you going to let that go? or are you going to belittle the actually release because some cant forget? Just an honest question, and it deserves honest answers.

Why would I belittle the release of Community Warfare based upon broken promises? They are 2 different issues.

The goal is for the game to move forward - and the best way for it to move forward is to release some form of CW. We all know that whatever they do release is going to need work - probably a lot of work. Better to get something out there even if you have to change it than to continuously push back a promise to do so. How many players have gotten sick of waiting and gone on to other games?

[Nathan Foxbane]

mongo2006, on 08 September 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

LOL how can you say that when there are so many people who disagree with your actions are ignored, posts are deleted, or sent so far into sub directories of the forums they can never see the day of light to make it seem the vast majority of the community supports your actions when we know it's not true.

You don't want dialog, you want PGI cheerleaders. When will there be dialog with people who don't agree with the direction Mechwarrior is going. When will you be open negotiations to make all players feel they got something out of being part of this community rather then being shut out of any steps forward.

PS: ask the Lords if they've ever lost 90% of their games vs clan mechs, dude this is all a joke.

Paul is praising a post about CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, there is no cheerleading in that. It is a way to tell someone what they are or an individual believes they are doing wrong, why it is or that individual believes it is wrong, and to share any fixes or alternatives the individual thinks up.

Also, please do not discuss moderation here, Bishop went through the trouble to edit his original post to keep this thread open, the least we can do is respect that.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 08 September 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[PANZERKAT]

Kirkland Langue, on 08 September 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Why would I belittle the release of Community Warfare based upon broken promises? They are 2 different issues.

The goal is for the game to move forward - and the best way for it to move forward is to release some form of CW. We all know that whatever they do release is going to need work - probably a lot of work. Better to get something out there even if you have to change it than to continuously push back a promise to do so. How many players have gotten sick of waiting and gone on to other games?

That 24 hour of server downtime to move earlier in the month saw a host of people start playing some other games and we haven't really come back.

I feel CW has had a worse effect on people, many of which will never come back.

[Johnny Z]

Nathan Foxbane, on 08 September 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Pual is praising a post about CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, there is no cheerleading in that. It is a way to tell someone what they are or an individual believes they are doing wrong, why it is or that individual believes it is wrong, and to share any fixes or alternatives the individual thinks up.

Also, please do not discuss moderation here, Bishop went through the trouble to edit his original post to keep this thread open, the least we can do is respect that.

Ya but i have alot of fun shooting down troll posts especially if they are comparing shooter clones to Mechwarrior or vapour ware. I cant help it, i get alot of laughs that way. Someone keeps ruining the fun, i wont say who "They" are though.

[Zanathan]

One of the problems that is consistent throughout all gaming forums is there will also be detractors who create threads that are not constructive or are just troll bait but unfortunately it's these threads that generate the most attention. Who likes reading long and well written posts when there is one that is short and full of angst?

I would go as far as having a voting system for threads and posts so we can collective down vote it so they aren't displayed (unless you are actively looking for it).

[Reitrix]

Zanathan, on 08 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

One of the problems that is consistent throughout all gaming forums is there will also be detractors who create threads that are not constructive or are just troll bait but unfortunately it's these threads that generate the most attention. Who likes reading long and well written posts when there is one that is short and full of angst?

I would go as far as having a voting system for threads and posts so we can collective down vote it so they aren't displayed (unless you are actively looking for it).

WoWs forums actually do this. Well, you can downvote a specific post, and if the downvotes get too high the post gets "Buried".
Meanwhile, highly liked posts are made more visible. A similar system but on Threads would be neat. So long as you don't get people making a hundred alt accounts to downvote a thread they don't like XD

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 September 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

And yes, I would feel somewhat different. And I bought the maximum Founders pack. And the money from that, was used long ago, to repay their startup loan from IGP, and add content. 5 Million is a drop in the bucket though, in game development (kind of insane, actually).

What I find laughable, is the number of people who act as if the Phoenix and Invasion packs were some kind of Founders pack, with all funds designated some sort of holy corban, only to be used at the Altar of MWO. And by that logic, every paint, cockpit bauble, etc, would be, too.

None of that was ever the case, or implied in the purchases of those packages. Yet here we are, people complaining, because a company uses assets from one product to help another product.

That's all very true, and you have a valid point, but (at least some of) the people who are upset are upset because they feel that the money could be used to pick up the pace of development for MW:O (although from what I have heard part of the problem is PGI's location being inconvenient to move out to).

[Zensei]

I am willing for a fresh start, a few hundred dollars here or there is not what motivates me to play this game, I have been playing it in one form or another for 25 + years, and I have yet to pilot a Clan mech, and my game time far outweighs my posting time, have I been a pain at times, you bet, I would like to think I was warranted at times.

So game on then, see you on the fields.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I believe most of the negativity came from PGI unwillingness to listen to the community. They also alienated their fan base pretty thoroughly with their comments that Founders and hence, Fans, of the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise were no longer the demographic they were building the game for or the, "we are on an island" comments. That negative PR is squarely on PGI and in my opinion is overwhelmingly the reason why we have a toxic community at present. I know this because my personal negativity stems from these things.

Now moving forward. I am absolutely willing to give PGI a second chance but as I have mentioned in the past, trust is earned, not given and PGI has gone a long way to lose any and all trust the community has so they have to start from scratch and deserve the communities trust. That being said, if PGI honestly and earnestly wants to turn things around, they can. All they have to do is start listening and most importantly demonstrate positive change and the community will follow.

I know for myself, I would love to come on the forums and say, "Thanks PGI, I really like the overall improvement in JJ capabilities" or "Thanks PGI, your changes to the heat system really make playing the game more enjoyable". Those type of responses mean I am having fun and maybe more importantly, spending all my time and money on MWO. That is the game I want to play.

[PANZERKAT]

Hover jets. What an amazing concept. I guess that was appealing to the non die hard battletech fans?

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Cheers, fellow mechwarriors. Let's see how CW unfolds, and I hope to see ALL of you, dirtside.



(this started as a reply, in a different thread, so you will likely see an edited version, elsewhere in the forums)

With the news on this post, looks like a new beginning, to me.
http://mwomercs.com/...s-igp-feedback/

Here here, and nice post.

I read somewhere, in the fetid and wreckage-strewn halls of reddit, that there were IGP directives to lower the amount of communication with us - that IGP hated how 'chummy' the dev team was with us.

If this is true (and please, grain of salt) I just hope that some of that interaction will return, and that some of the angst left to fester will start to disappear.

[Reitrix]

Kiiyor, on 08 September 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Here here, and nice post.

I read somewhere, in the fetid and wreckage-strewn halls of reddit, that there were IGP directives to lower the amount of communication with us - that IGP hated how 'chummy' the dev team was with us.

If this is true (and please, grain of salt) I just hope that some of that interaction will return, and that some of the angst left to fester will start to disappear.

Publishers tend to have a negative impact on most games. I actually can't think of a title off the top of my head that legitimately benefited from being attached to a Publisher.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Reitrix, on 08 September 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Publishers tend to have a negative impact on most games. I actually can't think of a title off the top of my head that legitimately benefited from being attached to a Publisher.

This is true. Publishers, more than anything, typically drive the push for profit at the expense of everything else. 95% of the time, they are the ones responsible for a game launching before it is ready or releases of minimal viable products in order to get cash flow incoming.

That being the case, let's hope for positive changes now that PGI has lost the shackles of a publisher.

[Jack Gallows]

I don't really wish any ill towards any actual forum goers save for those who intentionally try to disrupt others, but dealing with them is easy enough.

That said, I hope PGI flounders. I know this will effect a lot of people and their enjoyment as they are invested in MW:O on differing levels...but I don't see things really turning around. MW:O is still really just going to remain a bug infested/balance nightmare arena game that's Mechwarrior and Battletech light while pushing for more and more cash on a crappy to the player F2P structure.

Their new IP is going to tank, just like MW:T did (though apparently they don't have anything to do with it, regardless...) and it's going to fail hard. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous will be far better games for all levels of play then whatever it is they are announcing and the fact that so many people were burned by each founder/phoenix/clan pack rush means they're not going to bite into the apple to know it's already spoiled.

It's not going to have the groundswell it needs to really take off....and if MW:O's development is any indication it's going to take them forever to actually do anything with it to the point that it'll be late to the party while others add their 2 cents into the new wave of space sim. They'll aim at making the least viable product initially and then try to scoop up anyone that SC and ED let slip due to lack of money, attention span, and/or PC specs.

It'll work for a while but it won't have as much money thrown at is like MW:O. And I hope they crumble under the weight.

[PANZERKAT]

I'm content planting potatoes, riding a donkey and planning how to get my Sloth Glider in Archege. See how easy it can be for you PGI? Give people what they want and your game thrives.

[Kiiyor]

Jack Gallows, on 08 September 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

I don't really wish any ill towards any actual forum goers save for those who intentionally try to disrupt others, but dealing with them is easy enough.

That said, I hope PGI flounders. I know this will effect a lot of people and their enjoyment as they are invested in MW:O on differing levels...but I don't see things really turning around. MW:O is still really just going to remain a bug infested/balance nightmare arena game that's Mechwarrior and Battletech light while pushing for more and more cash on a crappy to the player F2P structure.

Their new IP is going to tank, just like MW:T did (though apparently they don't have anything to do with it, regardless...) and it's going to fail hard. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous will be far better games for all levels of play then whatever it is they are announcing and the fact that so many people were burned by each founder/phoenix/clan pack rush means they're not going to bite into the apple to know it's already spoiled.

It's not going to have the groundswell it needs to really take off....and if MW:O's development is any indication it's going to take them forever to actually do anything with it to the point that it'll be late to the party while others add their 2 cents into the new wave of space sim. They'll aim at making the least viable product initially and then try to scoop up anyone that SC and ED let slip due to lack of money, attention span, and/or PC specs.

It'll work for a while but it won't have as much money thrown at is like MW:O. And I hope they crumble under the weight.

Good god, -I- hope it doesn't tank. Shenanigans aside, I still love playing. I love BT. If this goes under, there will never be another BT game. Never.

Personally, I hope that with PGI behind the reins again, things get better. Back in CB and beyondish, PGI used to live on the forums. We discussed everything, and they listened. Rumour has it that IGP hated that interaction, and reigned in PGI. Rumour has it that IGP were the main driving force behind 3PV, and a lot of the other contentious decisions with the game. While it's easy to lump all hate on PGI, we'll likely never know just how much they were influenced by IGP, and vice versa.

I'm hoping the game gets better now, I certainly don't hope it dies.

[TLBFestus]

This is a good post and I support it's intent.

Primarily, I'm hoping that the removal of IGP from the picture and PGI taking responsibility for all facets of the game, will result in better everything.

That being said, I will still feel free to critique PGIs decisions when I feel they have erred. As far as holding my tongue and not making 'spurious" comments, I think that you will find that when those issues escalate it's when the Relentlessly Positive Cheerleaders and the Black Knights get together.

Both sides are entrenched in their opinions (I'm partially "trenched") and it turns into a circle jerk of arguments. So, it's hard to blame one side without pointing a finger at the other, if you get my point.

While some detractors continue to "reside in the past" and complain about things that will not ever change at this point, it does no good for a Cheerleader comes in and "rah rahs" their differing opinion. I don't see how you can muzzle one without muzzling the other.

As I was told earlier, these forums aren't about free speech, but when it begins to appear that one side (naturally) has the support of the system, it's not good either.

Being a gamer who wants to know more about the game, I naturally gravitate towards the forums to get more information. I can see that currently as a new player coming to these forums I would be, at the least, concerned with the attitude demonstrated.

As someone else pointed out, forums take on their own personality and are an outgrowth of the game. The forums as they currently sit reflect the contentious nature of the game right now.

With, hopefully, the improvement in the control of the game now being in one set of hands, maybe they will start a CONSISTENT and STEADY series of improvements in the game and interaction with the Devs that will lead to a better forum environment.

That isn't going to happen overnight, and I can be disciplined for this, but unless BOTH sides work on it, and the Moderators show patience rather than carrying a big stick all the time, it won't happen. In other words, the fault lays as much with the Cheerleaders as the Black Knights.

I just don't want to see legitimate criticism of issues get buried/removed.

For the TL:DR group, something like this;

Edited by TLBFestus, 08 September 2014 - 07:51 PM.

[El Bandito]

3 years or not, I still want ECM rework.

[Runs With Scissors]

does PGI think their reputation wont carry over to this new game? especially with regards to any croudfunding attempt?

PGI has a reputation for:

1. massive delays (for years in some cases)

2. bugs.... so many bugs

3. for whatever reason, making a large part of their player base unhappy and some to hate their guts (it dosent matter if they deserved it or not they actually have a reputation for this now)

A lot of BT fans felt they got burned and even ones who didn't... well with those 3 reasons above I feel many people are going to sit out and wait to see if its good this time, instead of jumping in. A lack of interest usually kills a game and I feel MWO might hurt this new games development instead of providing a solid core of players a game like that needs

[headclot]

Runs With Scissors, on 08 September 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

does PGI think their reputation wont carry over to this new game? especially with regards to any croudfunding attempt?

PGI has a reputation for:

1. massive delays (for years in some cases)

2. bugs.... so many bugs

3. for whatever reason, making a large part of their player base unhappy and some to hate their guts (it dosent matter if they deserved it or not they actually have a reputation for this now)

All three of these things are the result of IGP and the PGI partnership.

I would encourage you to watch the recent no guts no galaxy podcast.