I just feel like the 'value' is all wrong for most of the mechs and also the 'fluff' stuff like camo and paints. I'm the type of person who will spend money if I feel like I am getting a good value for it. Consequently, I bought Phoneix+Reinforments and more than half of the Clan mechs as well. I've also bought premium time on occasion when I have been playing a bunch. The mech packs, while larger dollar amounts, felt like a good deal for the money. Premium time feels overpriced to me, but that is ONLY because of how I play. I tend to be very inconsistent, playing every night one week and then not playing at all another. Heck, I don't think I played a SINGLE match with the premium time I won from one of the recent contests. Because of that, I don't buy or use premium time unless I feel like I will be able to play for most of the week at least.
There are probably opportunities to offer much shorter duration bursts of premium time that would make players FEEL like they are getting a better value. Say, two hours for 100MC. That would let me feel like I was really getting to use all of the time I paid for, and it is entirely possible that I might end up spending MORE than what 30-days of premium time costs if you let me feel like I am using it more efficiently. That is the biggest 'problem' with premium time: People feel like they are wasting a bunch of it. Revise the way you sell premium time so that we FEEL like we are using more of it, and I bet people would spend the same amount of money, if not more, and be happier about it at the same time.
Also, Mech MC prices are just too high on most mechs. PGI does a great job with the art and usually the 3D implementation of their mechs...but I don't want to pay $20 for a single mech. Honestly, I don't even want to pay $10 unless it is a really good mech, or I'm especially attached to it. $5-$7 would be the sweet-spot where I might actually consider paying MC rather than grinding CBills to buy a standard mech. I am FAR more likely to buy three mechs at $5 than one mech at $15, and I would imagine many other people are as well. Also, just auto-add a mech-bay to the cost of a mech if you don't have one free. Making me explicitly spend 300MC and then go back to buy the mech makes it feel more expensive, and makes it feel like I am being squeezed for more money. It's just psychological, but making me buy the mech-bay as a separate transaction is not helping.
Finally: Camos and colors. If ANYTHING in this game should be priced to be an impulse buy, this is it. This stuff is total fluff, and ALL of it should be $1 or probably less. We should be able to pick up camos and colors without even thinking about what it costs. If I could take a brand-new mech, and toss on a camo and three new colors for 1000MC or under, I would probably do it a whole lot more often. As it is, I only have a handful of colors and I don't think I have ANY camo. Also, change the way you name your camo options. I'm pretty sure that there are a TON of people who think the one-time Camo only lasts for a single drop...seriously.
The hurdle that you have to get over is this: You are going to have to take less money per transaction if you want to build the volume up. As a F2P title, you want people to be impluse-buying this stuff, and you want them to FEEL like they are getting a good deal. Premium time doesn't FEEL like a good deal. Mechs and camo/paints FEEL too expensive. If I am willing to drop upwards of $500 on mech-packs because they feel like a fair deal, but I won't spend $4 to buy a color of paint, because I think 1000MC is too much, that should tell you something. People WILL spend mroe money if they feel like it is a good value, and right now most of the core items don't feel that way.
9
How Can Pgi Improve Mwo - Free 2 Play Model
Started by headclot, Sep 08 2014 06:58 PM
157 replies to this topic
#102
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- Little Helper
- 4,731 posts
Member
- LocationDancing on the grave of Energy Draw LOL
Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:05 AM
Dark Jackal, on 10 September 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:
What does badges and whales have anything to do with what the Original Poster discussed?
If you feel that it has nothing to do with what the OP discussed then why did you make a number of posts about it?
Quote
More to the point, you are making blanket statements about PGI's customers and about PGI. We know this because you cannot get any of these badges without showing up as being a customer regardless of whether or not the amount of money you put in.
Whales isn't the issue.
They are customers, period. No more no less. You don't provide anything tangible to this discussion and do not wish to confront that pesky issue of real evidence because you would not actually discuss free to play models.
Whales isn't the issue.
They are customers, period. No more no less. You don't provide anything tangible to this discussion and do not wish to confront that pesky issue of real evidence because you would not actually discuss free to play models.
As a customer, I'm saying PGI is handling their F2P business model poorly because (including other reasons) I think their prices are too high, sounds like discussing F2P models to me. Additionally, the way I see it, whales are at least partly to blame because they support such business models, and I've already stated that I think it's a bad business model.
Quote
What evidence do you think we were discussing about? Whether or not whales exist or improving free to play models overall, i.e. the customer experience for folks that actually pay regardless of the actual amount?
I didn't really see any real evidence concerning your posts about whales or improving free to play models and still don't see any.
Quote
This isn't a personal jab because videos like that change the subject and intention around because that's all he is discussing about. So you are not talking as a customer, relating to other customers, or even approaching valid customer-provider relationship.
Sounds like pretty baseless claims there, somehow I'm not a customer discussing issues with other customers even though that's exactly what I'm doing.
Quote
Instead, you have some youtube video with polemic arguments and do exactly as the video does and discuss things in polemic terms.
Polemic
http://dictionary.re...wse/polemic?s=t
noun
1. a controversial argument, as one against some opinion, doctrine, etc.
2. a person who argues in opposition to another; controversialist.
___
Polemic
http://dictionary.re...wse/polemic?s=t
noun
1. a controversial argument, as one against some opinion, doctrine, etc.
2. a person who argues in opposition to another; controversialist.
___
So...what, you don't want to actually address the points because they're controversial? Okay then.
Quote
We want improvement as the customer from PGI right? There are better ways to get a point across than trying to be a hip cat with coolness all day.
I'm offering criticism of PGI's business model which is essentially what the thread is about, if you think that amounts to "trying to be a hip cat with coolness all day" then that's just a side effect.
#103
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- The Vicious
- 187 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:10 AM
Maxx Blue, on 10 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:
There are probably opportunities to offer much shorter duration bursts of premium time that would make players FEEL like they are getting a better value. Say, two hours for 100MC. That would let me feel like I was really getting to use all of the time I paid for, and it is entirely possible that I might end up spending MORE than what 30-days of premium time costs if you let me feel like I am using it more efficiently. That is the biggest 'problem' with premium time: People feel like they are wasting a bunch of it. Revise the way you sell premium time so that we FEEL like we are using more of it, and I bet people would spend the same amount of money, if not more, and be happier about it at the same time.
Well said. I've been an advocate of looking at how other Free to Play games blend both smaller sets of Premium Time and Subscriber Time. Ideally, I would not mind both models from PlanetSide 2 and Star Wars the Old Republic. In Planetside 2, you have boat loads of options for things even down for a few hours of play-time to have more certs (like cbills) or xp. They also have monthly subs as well which you get the most value out of but the folks there do it in a way I don't feel the need to be on all the time like I'm missing out with my time. Plus SOE leverages their platform so there is more incentive to get their premium time since you can use the same account across all of their applications (games).
Star Wars does the subscriber model where you don't necessarily have to feel committed to a yearly sub and buy what you need when you need it or take a break from the game and come back later and sub for a month or two. I do this routinely with SWTOR so I don't feel overly committed I have to sit 6 months to a year like I did with Rift.
When I used my Founders Time about a year ago, it left a feeling of it being a bit wasteful. Part of that was the game was not really compete at the time (and still is not to where I would like it to be) and the other part was burn out. Playing the same maps day in and day out makes the Premium Time less valuable the longer it builds up overtime.
#104
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- Legendary Founder
- 3,495 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:15 AM
What I would like to see ... for better or for worse ... is a concise statement of what they plan to do with MWO. What features are planned, what is their priority and a semi-reasonable time line for delivery ... not fantasy numbers made up on the spur of the moment but thoughtful responses based on resource availability and developer estimates for feature implementation time.
I would also like to hear what the current long term vision for the game is. Games change, plans change ... I personally would not hold PGI to two year old promises based on dreams and wish fulfillment (or the desire to recruit funding) rather than reality ... but I would like to hear what the current and goals plans are ... how they can concretely bring the current game closer to their vision (and the vision of the players).
In my opinion and I suspect the opinions of many others ... there are a lot of things PGI could consider doing to make MWO a better, more fun and deeper game to play ... all of which should work to increase the game playerbase and revenues.
-----
Here is one example ... I think that they have missed a bet with the experience system.
Current -
- same skiils for all mechs
- have to unlock 3 variants of one chassis at basic to unlock the elite tier
- completing master gives an extra module slot
- there is nothing to do with excess xp except convert it to GXP for MC
Some ideas -
- create a skill tree with 32 base level skills or 8 skills with 4 ranks each or some other variation ... only allow a player to choose 8 of the 32 for any variant ... allow each variant to have different skills selected
- Implement 16 elite skills - choose 4
- Implement 4 master skills - choose 1
(note: if that is too much work ... do 16,8, and 2 .. but it won't be as much fun for the player)
- This allows each variant of every mech you own to be skilled up differently for different roles (depending on what is available in the skill tree).
- This makes grinding each variant MUCH less boring since each may have a specific use when the training is complete (beyond one or two different hard points or some quirks)
- skills can be used to support role and information warfare concepts
- if PGI is having trouble creatively coming up with skills ... ask the community and open it up to every employee ... I am sure there would be thousands of ideas and variations ... you only need to choose and balance about 50.
Why would PGI go to this effort? TO generate revenue.
The present system doesn't provide much in the way of revenue generation opportunities ... but if folks really want to level up different variants with different skill trees .. they might be much more willing to spend real money to reduce the grind.
- spend MC for XP on a particular variant (This is not pay to win ... since everyone can earn XP and GXP simply by playing the game ... at least that is the usual argument against pay2win
).
- charge an MC fee to respec the XP on a given variant.
- continue with the XP to GXP MC conversion fee
I would also like to hear what the current long term vision for the game is. Games change, plans change ... I personally would not hold PGI to two year old promises based on dreams and wish fulfillment (or the desire to recruit funding) rather than reality ... but I would like to hear what the current and goals plans are ... how they can concretely bring the current game closer to their vision (and the vision of the players).
In my opinion and I suspect the opinions of many others ... there are a lot of things PGI could consider doing to make MWO a better, more fun and deeper game to play ... all of which should work to increase the game playerbase and revenues.
-----
Here is one example ... I think that they have missed a bet with the experience system.
Current -
- same skiils for all mechs
- have to unlock 3 variants of one chassis at basic to unlock the elite tier
- completing master gives an extra module slot
- there is nothing to do with excess xp except convert it to GXP for MC
Some ideas -
- create a skill tree with 32 base level skills or 8 skills with 4 ranks each or some other variation ... only allow a player to choose 8 of the 32 for any variant ... allow each variant to have different skills selected
- Implement 16 elite skills - choose 4
- Implement 4 master skills - choose 1
(note: if that is too much work ... do 16,8, and 2 .. but it won't be as much fun for the player)
- This allows each variant of every mech you own to be skilled up differently for different roles (depending on what is available in the skill tree).
- This makes grinding each variant MUCH less boring since each may have a specific use when the training is complete (beyond one or two different hard points or some quirks)
- skills can be used to support role and information warfare concepts
- if PGI is having trouble creatively coming up with skills ... ask the community and open it up to every employee ... I am sure there would be thousands of ideas and variations ... you only need to choose and balance about 50.
Why would PGI go to this effort? TO generate revenue.
The present system doesn't provide much in the way of revenue generation opportunities ... but if folks really want to level up different variants with different skill trees .. they might be much more willing to spend real money to reduce the grind.
- spend MC for XP on a particular variant (This is not pay to win ... since everyone can earn XP and GXP simply by playing the game ... at least that is the usual argument against pay2win
).- charge an MC fee to respec the XP on a given variant.
- continue with the XP to GXP MC conversion fee
#105
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- 342 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:15 AM
Fut, on 10 September 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:
Wouldn't it be easier to explain how to switch from 3rd to 1st, rather than start changing all the functionality of 3rd PV?
Then they should just remove 3rd person mode altogether. Either have the whole thing there or not at all.
#106
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- Ace Of Spades
- 175 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:29 AM
Some good suggestions here. I might as well throw in my 2 cents.
-Prices are too high.
I've seen a lot of people saying this and I agree, both cbills and MC prices. There are people like myself who will probably never spend the amount of money PGI is asking for, for certain things in MWO like Mechs and Modules, etc. So being free to play, it's incredibly frustrating when it takes hours upon days upon weeks, or even months for more casual gamers who don't play every hour of the day, just to earn enough cbills to buy that heavy mech you want, and that doesnt include upgrades, weapons, engines, modules, etc. It will put people off and they won't want to play, nor will they want to buy MC due to the fact the prices are quite high, higher than most AAA games out there (around 60 bucks). To buy what you wanted, you'd end up spending an amount that'd pay for 5 brand new games. People have lives to live, jobs to work, so we can't sit and grind hours and hours into this 1 game. I'm not saying lower the prices to something super cheap of course, but at least appeal to the casual gamer a bit and lower some of the prices. I think a lot of people would be willing to spend real cash on mechs and other things if they didn't cost so much as they do now.
-UI 2.0.
I've heard a lot of back and forth talk about this, both good and bad. Now for me, personally one of the big issues with it right now is how it does not scale for high resolutions. Running on 1920x1080 in fullscreen or even high resolutions, makes everything significantly tiny, annoying to click and navigate. Running at 1280x720 looks much nicer, like it was designed for windowed mode. All I'd really like to see is proper scaling of the UI interface for high resolution players. The UI could probably be easier to navigate as well. Some things takes many many clicks and it gets tedious
-Performance and Graphics
Coming from closed beta, I remember how well the maps looked with the high quality shadows, light rays from the sun, really nice effects. Now all of that has been removed (especially noticeable on River City, a lot of trees don't cast shadows even on Very High). I understand trying to balance performance to make the game run better for everyone, but this is why we have graphic options. If people's machines can't handle the high quality stuff, switch to medium or low settings, but leave those nice effects for the Very High settings for those who have powerful machines can run the high quality effects and lighting and so forth. Performance in general seems to be an all around issues, something to do with the amount of Mechs in a level. In testing grounds when there's only 8 other mechs, I can hit 120 fps stable no problem on Very High. Then drop into a match with 23 other Mechs, and I'll be lucky to hit 60, usually averaging around 40 fps.
-Airstrikes & Artillery & Coolshot
This is a personal gripe, so I know a lot of people won't agree with me, but I'm just throwing it out there. With the airstrikes and arty strikes, the game feels more like Call of Mechwarrior instead of a true Mechwarrior experience. It's not a game breaker by any means, but I don't think its necessary in a game like this either. Again, personal preference really. As for the coolshot module, I'm a little annoyed that it's a module we have to buy, instead of being built into every mech as all previous Mechwarrior games. Again, not a game breaker, but it could be better I think.
-Ghost Heat
I'm pretty strongly against Ghost Heat, and here's why. It's not that I wanna be able to do 6 ppc crazy pinpoint damage, it's not that I wanna be OP and one-shot everything, it's not anything like that. I'm actually against pinpoint damage, and I think being able to one-shot a mech is ridiculous. It's not something you could do in any other Mechwarrior game, all of which did not have "Ghost Heat". Now, the whole 6 ppc stalkers and such came around when 2 things happened, 1 was introducing double heat sinks for the first time, and 2 was lowering the PPC heat. Before double heat sinks, the weapons were balanced properly to work with single heat sinks. Mechs couldn't boat a lot of weapons, so you took what you could, a couple lasers and maybe an SRM 6, and 1 PPC. Brawling and damage over time was favored over pinpoint damage, since pinpoint was hard to do without overheating yourself, and to me that's how it should be. Instead of the "Ghost Heat" method, maybe try changing the Heat Capacity instead. Make it work for double heat sinks as it once did for single heat sinks (imo single heat sinks are kinda useless now arent they?) But yeah, just an idea.
-Networking & Collision
Although I haven't seen many issues lately regarding the networking, there are still times I'll watch mechs teleport or rubberband around, even at slow moving speeds. Sometimes hits on my screen will not register on the server, etc. And when running into another mech, oh my god haha. I think we all know how frustrating it is getting stuck on other mechs, then suddenly teleporting 20 feet away. Collision especially needs to be worked on, and I'd love to see knockdowns come back. Knockdowns added a new tactical approach, being able to run into other mechs to temporarily disable them (also some form of melee at least lol). Not to mention that people would be less inclined to run up your ass on your own team with knockdowns re-enabled =P Knockdowns = Fun. that is all.
Alright I think i've blabbed on enough, more than I originally intended. I'm sure I'll get some hate and disagreement, as well as some agreement. Most of this is just ideas and opinions. On a side note, can't wait for dropship mode/community warfare \o/. Hope it lives up to the hype
-Prices are too high.
I've seen a lot of people saying this and I agree, both cbills and MC prices. There are people like myself who will probably never spend the amount of money PGI is asking for, for certain things in MWO like Mechs and Modules, etc. So being free to play, it's incredibly frustrating when it takes hours upon days upon weeks, or even months for more casual gamers who don't play every hour of the day, just to earn enough cbills to buy that heavy mech you want, and that doesnt include upgrades, weapons, engines, modules, etc. It will put people off and they won't want to play, nor will they want to buy MC due to the fact the prices are quite high, higher than most AAA games out there (around 60 bucks). To buy what you wanted, you'd end up spending an amount that'd pay for 5 brand new games. People have lives to live, jobs to work, so we can't sit and grind hours and hours into this 1 game. I'm not saying lower the prices to something super cheap of course, but at least appeal to the casual gamer a bit and lower some of the prices. I think a lot of people would be willing to spend real cash on mechs and other things if they didn't cost so much as they do now.
-UI 2.0.
I've heard a lot of back and forth talk about this, both good and bad. Now for me, personally one of the big issues with it right now is how it does not scale for high resolutions. Running on 1920x1080 in fullscreen or even high resolutions, makes everything significantly tiny, annoying to click and navigate. Running at 1280x720 looks much nicer, like it was designed for windowed mode. All I'd really like to see is proper scaling of the UI interface for high resolution players. The UI could probably be easier to navigate as well. Some things takes many many clicks and it gets tedious
-Performance and Graphics
Coming from closed beta, I remember how well the maps looked with the high quality shadows, light rays from the sun, really nice effects. Now all of that has been removed (especially noticeable on River City, a lot of trees don't cast shadows even on Very High). I understand trying to balance performance to make the game run better for everyone, but this is why we have graphic options. If people's machines can't handle the high quality stuff, switch to medium or low settings, but leave those nice effects for the Very High settings for those who have powerful machines can run the high quality effects and lighting and so forth. Performance in general seems to be an all around issues, something to do with the amount of Mechs in a level. In testing grounds when there's only 8 other mechs, I can hit 120 fps stable no problem on Very High. Then drop into a match with 23 other Mechs, and I'll be lucky to hit 60, usually averaging around 40 fps.
-Airstrikes & Artillery & Coolshot
This is a personal gripe, so I know a lot of people won't agree with me, but I'm just throwing it out there. With the airstrikes and arty strikes, the game feels more like Call of Mechwarrior instead of a true Mechwarrior experience. It's not a game breaker by any means, but I don't think its necessary in a game like this either. Again, personal preference really. As for the coolshot module, I'm a little annoyed that it's a module we have to buy, instead of being built into every mech as all previous Mechwarrior games. Again, not a game breaker, but it could be better I think.
-Ghost Heat
I'm pretty strongly against Ghost Heat, and here's why. It's not that I wanna be able to do 6 ppc crazy pinpoint damage, it's not that I wanna be OP and one-shot everything, it's not anything like that. I'm actually against pinpoint damage, and I think being able to one-shot a mech is ridiculous. It's not something you could do in any other Mechwarrior game, all of which did not have "Ghost Heat". Now, the whole 6 ppc stalkers and such came around when 2 things happened, 1 was introducing double heat sinks for the first time, and 2 was lowering the PPC heat. Before double heat sinks, the weapons were balanced properly to work with single heat sinks. Mechs couldn't boat a lot of weapons, so you took what you could, a couple lasers and maybe an SRM 6, and 1 PPC. Brawling and damage over time was favored over pinpoint damage, since pinpoint was hard to do without overheating yourself, and to me that's how it should be. Instead of the "Ghost Heat" method, maybe try changing the Heat Capacity instead. Make it work for double heat sinks as it once did for single heat sinks (imo single heat sinks are kinda useless now arent they?) But yeah, just an idea.
-Networking & Collision
Although I haven't seen many issues lately regarding the networking, there are still times I'll watch mechs teleport or rubberband around, even at slow moving speeds. Sometimes hits on my screen will not register on the server, etc. And when running into another mech, oh my god haha. I think we all know how frustrating it is getting stuck on other mechs, then suddenly teleporting 20 feet away. Collision especially needs to be worked on, and I'd love to see knockdowns come back. Knockdowns added a new tactical approach, being able to run into other mechs to temporarily disable them (also some form of melee at least lol). Not to mention that people would be less inclined to run up your ass on your own team with knockdowns re-enabled =P Knockdowns = Fun. that is all.
Alright I think i've blabbed on enough, more than I originally intended. I'm sure I'll get some hate and disagreement, as well as some agreement. Most of this is just ideas and opinions. On a side note, can't wait for dropship mode/community warfare \o/. Hope it lives up to the hype
#107
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- The Nightmare
- 11,797 posts
Member
- LocationKansas City, MO
Posted 10 September 2014 - 10:33 AM
Dark Jackal, on 10 September 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:
And here is where I stop. Why do you care who or what I am?
Who you are does not matter to the logical part of your argument, but it definitely gives insight into the way you argue you it (or avoid arguing it for that matter).
Dark Jackal, on 10 September 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:
You really need to do some self-thinking if you really want to be effective on what you set out to do. If the issue is customer service, then there are simply better ways to come across to the provider (PGI) to have your voice heard. If the issue is about milking cows or whales, whatever, then really I have no further discussion with you on the matter.
It's the Voice of the Customer!
It's the Voice of the Customer!
This is the funny part, where did customer service even come up, that is what support does? This is about public relations and business models which for video game companies, especially F2P developers, is a whale of a different beast than it may be for Credit Card companies. The closer comparison would be a business software developer (IBM and Microsoft being the obvious examples).
As far as making my voice heard, honestly that ship sailed a long time ago, when people made several long winded rational discussions about various problems the game suffers from and were largely ignored thus why PGI has endured such a toxic relationship with its own community (ergo customers).
Edited by WM Quicksilver, 10 September 2014 - 10:34 AM.
#108
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- Overlord
- 1,854 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 11:03 AM
Mawai, on 10 September 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:
Here is one example ... I think that they have missed a bet with the experience system.
Current -
- same skiils for all mechs
- have to unlock 3 variants of one chassis at basic to unlock the elite tier
- completing master gives an extra module slot
- there is nothing to do with excess xp except convert it to GXP for MC
Some ideas -
- create a skill tree with 32 base level skills or 8 skills with 4 ranks each or some other variation ... only allow a player to choose 8 of the 32 for any variant ... allow each variant to have different skills selected
- Implement 16 elite skills - choose 4
- Implement 4 master skills - choose 1
(note: if that is too much work ... do 16,8, and 2 .. but it won't be as much fun for the player)
- This allows each variant of every mech you own to be skilled up differently for different roles (depending on what is available in the skill tree).
- This makes grinding each variant MUCH less boring since each may have a specific use when the training is complete (beyond one or two different hard points or some quirks)
- skills can be used to support role and information warfare concepts
- if PGI is having trouble creatively coming up with skills ... ask the community and open it up to every employee ... I am sure there would be thousands of ideas and variations ... you only need to choose and balance about 50.
Why would PGI go to this effort? TO generate revenue.
The present system doesn't provide much in the way of revenue generation opportunities ... but if folks really want to level up different variants with different skill trees .. they might be much more willing to spend real money to reduce the grind.
- spend MC for XP on a particular variant (This is not pay to win ... since everyone can earn XP and GXP simply by playing the game ... at least that is the usual argument against pay2win ).
- charge an MC fee to respec the XP on a given variant.
- continue with the XP to GXP MC conversion fee
Current -
- same skiils for all mechs
- have to unlock 3 variants of one chassis at basic to unlock the elite tier
- completing master gives an extra module slot
- there is nothing to do with excess xp except convert it to GXP for MC
Some ideas -
- create a skill tree with 32 base level skills or 8 skills with 4 ranks each or some other variation ... only allow a player to choose 8 of the 32 for any variant ... allow each variant to have different skills selected
- Implement 16 elite skills - choose 4
- Implement 4 master skills - choose 1
(note: if that is too much work ... do 16,8, and 2 .. but it won't be as much fun for the player)
- This allows each variant of every mech you own to be skilled up differently for different roles (depending on what is available in the skill tree).
- This makes grinding each variant MUCH less boring since each may have a specific use when the training is complete (beyond one or two different hard points or some quirks)
- skills can be used to support role and information warfare concepts
- if PGI is having trouble creatively coming up with skills ... ask the community and open it up to every employee ... I am sure there would be thousands of ideas and variations ... you only need to choose and balance about 50.
Why would PGI go to this effort? TO generate revenue.
The present system doesn't provide much in the way of revenue generation opportunities ... but if folks really want to level up different variants with different skill trees .. they might be much more willing to spend real money to reduce the grind.
- spend MC for XP on a particular variant (This is not pay to win ... since everyone can earn XP and GXP simply by playing the game ... at least that is the usual argument against pay2win
).- charge an MC fee to respec the XP on a given variant.
- continue with the XP to GXP MC conversion fee
To clarify, would your suggestion remove the requirement of having three of a variant to unlock higher ranked skills? That's so not Battletech canon (no mechwarrior would find and train on two other variants of his 'mech to gain skill with his 'main') and makes collecting certain chassis extremely expensive.
I went a similar direction with the following, but I like your level of detail.
http://mwomercs.com/...dules-and-soul/
#109
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- The Infernal
- 8,881 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 11:15 AM
Everything needs to be Cheaper and more convenient.
For example, I like Sparky and would own it in a heart beat if it had been released as a 50% off sale. $18 for a 55 ton however is just too expensive. $5-10, absolutely and I wouldn't even think about it. I would probably own 5-6 more hero mechs than I do if pricing was in the $5-10 range.
Colors. How about instead of a dollar a piece, sell them for 25 cents a piece or sell 5 for a dollar. At this price I would probably own 20-30 colors instead of just 3-4.
Camo - couple of option. Leave the camos at 1000 MC or whatever they are, but once unlocked they are unlocked for every mech you own or bring the per mech unlock price down to 50 MC and have it be an unlock you can always revert to.
Cockpit items. Kind of the same deal. Don't mind spending 750 MC to unlock a warhorn, but it needs to be unlocked for all my mechs, not be 750 per mech unless I want to manually swap it out each time I change mechs.
Anyway, if you make purchases cheap and easy, people will just buy stuff. Make it expensive and inconvenient and most people will second guess each and every purchase, often times deciding it isn't worth it.
For example, I like Sparky and would own it in a heart beat if it had been released as a 50% off sale. $18 for a 55 ton however is just too expensive. $5-10, absolutely and I wouldn't even think about it. I would probably own 5-6 more hero mechs than I do if pricing was in the $5-10 range.
Colors. How about instead of a dollar a piece, sell them for 25 cents a piece or sell 5 for a dollar. At this price I would probably own 20-30 colors instead of just 3-4.
Camo - couple of option. Leave the camos at 1000 MC or whatever they are, but once unlocked they are unlocked for every mech you own or bring the per mech unlock price down to 50 MC and have it be an unlock you can always revert to.
Cockpit items. Kind of the same deal. Don't mind spending 750 MC to unlock a warhorn, but it needs to be unlocked for all my mechs, not be 750 per mech unless I want to manually swap it out each time I change mechs.
Anyway, if you make purchases cheap and easy, people will just buy stuff. Make it expensive and inconvenient and most people will second guess each and every purchase, often times deciding it isn't worth it.
#110
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- 168 posts
Member
- LocationWinnipeg
Posted 10 September 2014 - 12:03 PM
LOWER THE PRICES. Mechs should be no more than ten-fifteen dollars. Colours and cammos 1-2 dollars each. The mark up on virtual items in MWo is ridiculous. I haven't spent a single dime on the game because, 30 dollars for a chassis? That's potentially a whole other game I could have, or something else of real value.
I'm assuming I'm one of the younger people on this forum and I only work part time (barely at all, two days a week) so there's no way I'm dropping 30 dollars on an incomplete, flagrantly over hyped and under delivering game... but judging from the comments of others it doesn't seem like an issue exclusive to the young and poor of MwO.
I'm assuming I'm one of the younger people on this forum and I only work part time (barely at all, two days a week) so there's no way I'm dropping 30 dollars on an incomplete, flagrantly over hyped and under delivering game... but judging from the comments of others it doesn't seem like an issue exclusive to the young and poor of MwO.
Edited by girl on fire, 10 September 2014 - 12:07 PM.
#111
Posted 10 September 2014 - 12:24 PM
Dark Jackal, on 08 September 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:
They need to adapt and be agile with their free to play and overall methodologies just how Star Wars the Old Republic implemented theirs to improve their game and retain subscribers. Additionally, Planetside 2 also has some neat F2P features. It's not just World or War Tanks or League of Legends. Other games get it right to and there is no shame on standing on the shoulder of giants.
Use the SWTOR subscription system of a monthly fee with weekly real money added to your account and premium permanently activated for those bonuses. This can be used as a month to month subscription base for constant income while still allowing the F2P model overall.
With this the users should get free items from time to time, namely this could be camo patterns or colors instantly added to the user account. SWTOR does this with a random grabbag item you open a chest for monthly. The premium unlock system from Battlefield 4 for purchasing their outright premium system is another good example.
Diversifying content in a non-pay2win setup. This can be done through the addition of weapon variants that are all in balance with each other but have slightly different behavioral characteristics. Namely have a Laser from 'X' burn a little shorter but generate more heat equal or greater to the percentage of the burn time increase. It'd allow for more users to feel more attached to their customizations on mechs. (Laser example is just that - an example - similar stylings can be done with the mechanics for all different weapon types.)
Edited by Mirkk Defwode, 10 September 2014 - 12:27 PM.
#112
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- Little Helper
- 1,858 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:02 PM
girl on fire, on 10 September 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:
LOWER THE PRICES. Mechs should be no more than ten-fifteen dollars. Colours and cammos 1-2 dollars each. The mark up on virtual items in MWo is ridiculous. I haven't spent a single dime on the game because, 30 dollars for a chassis? That's potentially a whole other game I could have, or something else of real value.
I'm assuming I'm one of the younger people on this forum and I only work part time (barely at all, two days a week) so there's no way I'm dropping 30 dollars on an incomplete, flagrantly over hyped and under delivering game... but judging from the comments of others it doesn't seem like an issue exclusive to the young and poor of MwO.
I'm assuming I'm one of the younger people on this forum and I only work part time (barely at all, two days a week) so there's no way I'm dropping 30 dollars on an incomplete, flagrantly over hyped and under delivering game... but judging from the comments of others it doesn't seem like an issue exclusive to the young and poor of MwO.
I'm older and work a regular job, I allow myself a reasonable budget for entertainment but I refuse to pay the prices they ask as well. Charging for a single digital item what could buy an entire game (or multiple entire indie games) is not a micro-transaction in my mind. Even if this game was everything it had promised to be by now, I still would not spend 30 bucks on a mech or 250 on a package of mechs. (honestly the concept of spending hundreds of dollars on digital items flabbergasts me, but I'm frugal).
As I said earlier in the thread: A mech, to me, should be no more than 10 bucks (even that is high when you consider the terrible mastery system) and should include a free mech bay with it's purchase. The available number of free colors should be increased, adding more basic colors to the mix so new players can use the system without buying in. non-basic colors should come in packages that cost no more than $2 at most (which at that price would off set the increased number of free colors, since it's better value for money and thus more likely to have people purchase them). Camo patterns should be around 99 cents at most.
Champion mechs should not even be sold. That was about the most abhorrent thing I've seen this company do honestly (though the ninja removal of the Centurion variant just before the introduction of the Yen Lo Wang is pretty close). Champion's started out as a crowd-sourced effort to fix the games original godsawful trial mech system, letting the community design better mechs for new players to use. Then they took the designs the community came up with, slapped a cbill boost on it and tried to sell it back to people for real money, even though you can literally build these mechs for free. They don't even get a fancy paint job.
Edited by Quxudica, 10 September 2014 - 01:04 PM.
#113
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- Knight Errant
- 260 posts
Member
- LocationUsually between a rock and a Atlas
Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:11 PM
Hmm 500 dollars for a single golden mech ( i know they added the warhawk pack to it afterward), yeah.... I Wonder what they got wrong?
Better to sell 10 t-shirts at 10 bucks each then sell 1 for 100$. Make all hero mechs a third of their actual price, boar head for 15 or even 18 instead of 50 and keep the same trend for all the hero mechs, they would sell like freshly cooked bread of pastries.
Better to sell 10 t-shirts at 10 bucks each then sell 1 for 100$. Make all hero mechs a third of their actual price, boar head for 15 or even 18 instead of 50 and keep the same trend for all the hero mechs, they would sell like freshly cooked bread of pastries.
Edited by Bacl, 10 September 2014 - 01:15 PM.
#114
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- Philanthropist
- 141 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:12 PM
This is going to make a Troll sound but its not meant to be negative. Make a BT/MW game. How many of the Founders were die hard fans of BT/MW? Some? Most? How may are still here? Get them back. Stop making whatever BT/MW game you are making at the moment and make a BT/MW game.
#115
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- Philanthropist
- 1,656 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 06:02 PM
here is how i would do it .
1st implement a subscription plan why this is not done i have no idea .. why would you not want a monthly income . '
how to make the sub attractive ...
subs get a monthly c bill perk and gxp buff of course along with subscriber colors and camos they also get access to certain(some but not all(and maybe even a few exclusive ) ) mc only items outlined latter . with a *
2. * there should be a relatively cheap merc / clan / guild licenses that cost around 5 bucks it allows for the creation of in game guild administration and community features this lic expires every year but !! its renewable for several million cbills. if it expires it requires a mc purchase again .
3. exterior bling .. i hate it but i have been convinced that by other mmos that this crap sells .. im not suggesting mech angel wings but im talking about "truck nuts" 50's era tail fins. custom laser colors , bumper stickers etc keep it fun.
4. * custom huds. want a intresting heads up display one with lots of numbers, cool colors, and alternative cross hairs? hell yeah i would pay a few dollars for one of those.
5. * lower the mech prices 30 - 70%
6. introduce luxury cockpits . you want good dollars for mechs then make them pretty ditch that low res cockpit and pilot avatar, implement a fully functional all screens relay info (no deads screens) designer hud and plush mech cockpit
7. mechs killed decals this is in the form of unlocks kill 10 timber wolves unlock the abillity to purchase the "nose art showing the achievement"
8. hello kitty why ?? i dont know why!! but it sells people buy hello kitty anything theres hello kitty condoms all the way to hello kitty jumbo jets so why not mechs ?? just buy the licensing rights and make the hello kitty skin it will pay for its self within the month . be sure to create a custom game with nothing but hello kitty skined kit foxes and you tube this asap.
9. custom player decals a few mc to submit for approval . if this is for factions then that decal is allowed for all players in that faction.
10. lower the price of paint and moar colors.
thats the way to increase revenue.
and before i forget ...* link camos to maps . this would be a good mc boost . allowing players to link a custom camo to map
so they can have a snow camo on the icy maps and a forest camo on forest etc etc ..
1st implement a subscription plan why this is not done i have no idea .. why would you not want a monthly income . '
how to make the sub attractive ...
subs get a monthly c bill perk and gxp buff of course along with subscriber colors and camos they also get access to certain(some but not all(and maybe even a few exclusive ) ) mc only items outlined latter . with a *
2. * there should be a relatively cheap merc / clan / guild licenses that cost around 5 bucks it allows for the creation of in game guild administration and community features this lic expires every year but !! its renewable for several million cbills. if it expires it requires a mc purchase again .
3. exterior bling .. i hate it but i have been convinced that by other mmos that this crap sells .. im not suggesting mech angel wings but im talking about "truck nuts" 50's era tail fins. custom laser colors , bumper stickers etc keep it fun.
4. * custom huds. want a intresting heads up display one with lots of numbers, cool colors, and alternative cross hairs? hell yeah i would pay a few dollars for one of those.
5. * lower the mech prices 30 - 70%
6. introduce luxury cockpits . you want good dollars for mechs then make them pretty ditch that low res cockpit and pilot avatar, implement a fully functional all screens relay info (no deads screens) designer hud and plush mech cockpit
7. mechs killed decals this is in the form of unlocks kill 10 timber wolves unlock the abillity to purchase the "nose art showing the achievement"
8. hello kitty why ?? i dont know why!! but it sells people buy hello kitty anything theres hello kitty condoms all the way to hello kitty jumbo jets so why not mechs ?? just buy the licensing rights and make the hello kitty skin it will pay for its self within the month . be sure to create a custom game with nothing but hello kitty skined kit foxes and you tube this asap.
9. custom player decals a few mc to submit for approval . if this is for factions then that decal is allowed for all players in that faction.
10. lower the price of paint and moar colors.
thats the way to increase revenue.
and before i forget ...* link camos to maps . this would be a good mc boost . allowing players to link a custom camo to map
so they can have a snow camo on the icy maps and a forest camo on forest etc etc ..
Edited by nitra, 10 September 2014 - 06:10 PM.
#116
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- Big Daddy
- 26,736 posts
Member
- LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:52 PM
Here is another way to keep healthy amount of population while rewarding highly active gamers.
Make it so we can convert XP into MC.
Perhaps 2000 XP = 1 MC (subject to change, of course). That way, people have a lot more incentive to play, and feel the grind is actually rewarding.
Perhaps the old guard will benefit too much from this, but isn't it fitting that we, the long time players should be rewarded for keeping the game afloat for so long?
Make it so we can convert XP into MC.
Perhaps 2000 XP = 1 MC (subject to change, of course). That way, people have a lot more incentive to play, and feel the grind is actually rewarding.
Perhaps the old guard will benefit too much from this, but isn't it fitting that we, the long time players should be rewarded for keeping the game afloat for so long?
Edited by El Bandito, 10 September 2014 - 07:55 PM.
#117
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- The Vicious
- 187 posts
Member
Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:44 PM
WM Quicksilver, on 10 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:
This is the funny part, where did customer service even come up, that is what support does?
Are you telling me or asking me a question?
No business survives without customers.
No one gets paid to do "work", they get paid for getting stuff done.
#118
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- The Nightmare
- 11,797 posts
Member
- LocationKansas City, MO
Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:50 PM
Dark Jackal, on 10 September 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:
Are you telling me or asking me a question?
No business survives without customers.
No one gets paid to do "work", they get paid for getting stuff done.
I am asking you when customer service came up in the discussion, because I don't remember it even coming up?
Never did I say or suggest businesses survive without customers, again, not sure why this was even brought up.
#119
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- Little Helper
- 4,731 posts
Member
- LocationDancing on the grave of Energy Draw LOL
Posted 11 September 2014 - 06:37 AM
El Bandito, on 10 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:
Here is another way to keep healthy amount of population while rewarding highly active gamers.
Make it so we can convert XP into MC.
Perhaps 2000 XP = 1 MC (subject to change, of course). That way, people have a lot more incentive to play, and feel the grind is actually rewarding.
Perhaps the old guard will benefit too much from this, but isn't it fitting that we, the long time players should be rewarded for keeping the game afloat for so long?
Make it so we can convert XP into MC.
Perhaps 2000 XP = 1 MC (subject to change, of course). That way, people have a lot more incentive to play, and feel the grind is actually rewarding.
Perhaps the old guard will benefit too much from this, but isn't it fitting that we, the long time players should be rewarded for keeping the game afloat for so long?
That would be a pretty drastic shift in business philosophy, if that happened then in theory you could get practically everything in the game without paying a cent (which I personally don't have a big problem with really) since so far only packages are exclusive to straight up cash. It would also have an impact on how the game plays, such as people being determined to get as many kill assists as possible in every match even if it might be detrimental to the team, and it would put a huge emphasis on hero mechs and (to a lesser extent) champion mechs as well as acquiring premium time to earn MC faster.
It's an interesting idea and I like the intent behind it, but it also has a lot of far-reaching implications, so I would rather just see the business model adjusted in other ways and change the XP system to be actually better instead of just "oh, well it's still lame to deal with but now you can convert it into MC."
Edited by Pjwned, 11 September 2014 - 06:38 AM.
#120
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- Big Daddy
- 26,736 posts
Member
- LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:11 AM
Pjwned, on 11 September 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:
That would be a pretty drastic shift in business philosophy, if that happened then in theory you could get practically everything in the game without paying a cent (which I personally don't have a big problem with really) since so far only packages are exclusive to straight up cash. It would also have an impact on how the game plays, such as people being determined to get as many kill assists as possible in every match even if it might be detrimental to the team, and it would put a huge emphasis on hero mechs and (to a lesser extent) champion mechs as well as acquiring premium time to earn MC faster.
It's an interesting idea and I like the intent behind it, but it also has a lot of far-reaching implications, so I would rather just see the business model adjusted in other ways and change the XP system to be actually better instead of just "oh, well it's still lame to deal with but now you can convert it into MC."
If people want to use Hero mechs, Champion mechs, or Premium time to speed up XP farm, then they will have to buy those first with cash--which suits PGI's profit agenda, IMO. Besides, to earn mere 100 MC, you will have to win 100 matches, and that helps population retention and expansion.
Unless of course, PGI's servers cannot handle more players than current amount.
Edited by El Bandito, 11 September 2014 - 07:15 AM.
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