529 replies to this topic

[JHackworth]

please edit that copy ; i'll happily help you in the future if you give me a headsup.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Wraith0177, on 11 September 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

We need more detail than this. Lots more. This looks like a plan in it's earliest stages, not something well on it's way to being finished.

Which is right what it is.

[xWiredx]

Question: why does this sound really awful to anybody that doesn't want to be a part of a unit? I like playing with groups from time to time, but forcing it to be that way just to take part in something that should be accessible to all players shows horrible design logic and lack of thought.

Elaboration: paying attention to how other designers have done things could have yielded a much better, simpler, and more efficient way of creating this phase of community warfare (and the matchmaker in general even) with the ability of allowing solo players to participate in the same way. The wording in your original post seems to dictate that only 12-man groups will be able to participate, and that's quite frankly a load of crap.

Soul Caliber 2's conquest-type mode made it so you could align yourself with a faction and then fight for an extra share of the map as a solo player (because obviously a fighting game only has 2 players at a time). Since this game requires 12 people on each side, you could simply use your newfangled notification system to send a message to all players of a particular faction and the first 12 to opt-in based on the 3/3/3/3 rule would get in. Or, even more ahead, when planets are designated as contested, simply allow players to opt-in to a notification when battle is about to commence and then allow them to opt-in to the battle or not, and send a second notification when matchmaking starts for it.

You could also simply have a lobby where players can join, similar to a private lobby, and then they could coordinate amongst themselves to meet the weight limit.

The design already sounds like this is half-baked in, so I'm really wondering why the thought hadn't occurred that this could easily be achieved without requiring a 12-man group from a single unit.

Second question: is there any chance of having multiple characters so one account can be associated to multiple houses/clans, or at least 2 characters so a an account can have both an IS and clan alter-ego? This would make things a bit more interesting, and allow players to not be so locked out of some of their mechs (I myself have over 80 with the addition of the clan mechs).

[Johnny Z]

xWiredx, on 11 September 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Question: why does this sound really awful to anybody that doesn't want to be a part of a unit? I like playing with groups from time to time, but forcing it to be that way just to take part in something that should be accessible to all players shows horrible design logic and lack of thought.

Elaboration: paying attention to how other designers have done things could have yielded a much better, simpler, and more efficient way of creating this phase of community warfare (and the matchmaker in general even) with the ability of allowing solo players to participate in the same way. The wording in your original post seems to dictate that only 12-man groups will be able to participate, and that's quite frankly a load of crap.

Soul Caliber 2's conquest-type mode made it so you could align yourself with a faction and then fight for an extra share of the map as a solo player (because obviously a fighting game only has 2 players at a time). Since this game requires 12 people on each side, you could simply use your newfangled notification system to send a message to all players of a particular faction and the first 12 to opt-in based on the 3/3/3/3 rule would get in. Or, even more ahead, when planets are designated as contested, simply allow players to opt-in to a notification when battle is about to commence and then allow them to opt-in to the battle or not, and send a second notification when matchmaking starts for it.

You could also simply have a lobby where players can join, similar to a private lobby, and then they could coordinate amongst themselves to meet the weight limit.

The design already sounds like this is half-baked in, so I'm really wondering why the thought hadn't occurred that this could easily be achieved without requiring a 12-man group from a single unit.

Second question: is there any chance of having multiple characters so one account can be associated to multiple houses/clans, or at least 2 characters so a an account can have both an IS and clan alter-ego? This would make things a bit more interesting, and allow players to not be so locked out of some of their mechs (I myself have over 80 with the addition of the clan mechs).

No offense but been said 100 times that the regular queue players can drop in anything they want, but that the factions wars have rules on which tech can be used by which side.

On the bright side, it is likely that another fun important game system may be added called, you guessed it Solaris. This of course would allow anything and everything to be used as well. Although the Urbie Derbie would only allow, you guessed it Urban mechs.

I can already hear it now, "But why cant I bring my Timber Wolf to the Urbie Derbie?"

George commentating on the match "OMG a Timber Wolf has gotten onto the field, look at all those Urban mechs scramble!"

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 September 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Ensaine]

Paul Inouye, on 10 September 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

*Fakes Niko's voice*

Howdy folks! Please leave your feedback and questions for Paul (the guy with nice shiny hair) here regarding Community Warfare - Phase 2 - Part 1

Spoiler

Thanks!

*coughs from doing a squeaky voice*

You think this is cute? Really Paul? You're one of the problems, not a solution of any kind......

[Zeece]

Why did you choose to let the Design team decide which planets are contested rather than let players? At that point all strategy is out and we are playing your chess match and not our own? Its kinda taking the Community out of the equation if we are just pawns fighting your war.

[Action Man]

Paul you mentioned stuff kicking off around peak times, How is this determined? or rather what counts as a peak time? just a little paranoia of being left out due to time zones or other global factors

[ArcDemon]

Paul Inouye, on 10 September 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

This is something Russ is breathing down our neck about.

Our goal is to eventually support ISvsIS and ClanvsClan as well as maybe things like 3025 Tech only, or some specific lore based battle where only a small subset of 'Mechs are available. I'll inform more as we investigate this part of Faction play.

I think there are a lot of people that would like to see this mode (ie Stock Mech Mondays and such which try to emulate it). Frankly it seems like a good investment since it creates an entirely new game meta for players to enjoy without requiring any investment in new mechanics, models, etc.

There is only one thing that I think would be required for this mode and it would require some code changes: Treat upgrades/downgrades as a purchased item instead of a fee. This means that once you buy DHS or Endo for a particular mech you can freely switch back to standard and then back to the upgrade without cost.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Darth Futuza, on 10 September 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Couple of Questions/Comments

[/font]
Okay I get it, but what happens when Kurita and Davion players want to form the Kuriavion alliance in order to crush Steiner? Are we not allowed to make political decisions and form political alliances with other factions?

Well, the answer to this is fairly simple I think. It's that none of the DC players are Theodore or Takashi Kurita. Nor are any of the FedSun players Hanse Davion, or any Lyrans Melissa Steiner (no matter how many Lyran Scout Lances they have standing in their personal mech garage). In other words, not a single one of us get to set policy for the states. Those decisions are made by NPCs controlled fully and completely by PGI, and is as it should be IMO. And PGI will probably have them follow the lore more or less as far as their decisions go, rather than have Hanse Davion backhand his wife Melissa and cozy up to Takashi for a mutual admiration society.

[SI The Joker]

Hi Paul,

I have a number of questions about the implementation of Community Warfare. I hope you can take a few minutes to answer one or more of them. I apologize for the seemingly random order, as well.

1. It sounds as though these 24x4 (24 players by 4 mechs a piece) matches are going to take a very long time to complete. Has there been any testing done around how long these matches will last? What were the results, if any?

2. Will there be an economy? When I say economy I mean something like... I run unit X... we own 60 mechs. I 'own' 4 planets which gives me Z cbills each week to purchase mechs -- for my unit (not my personal mech bays). We've just attacked a planet with 48 mechs and lost 16. I need to make money/purchase new inventory to be able to attack again or mount a viable defense. I have factories that produce 2 mechs every week for me on planets X and Y. Things like that...

Will that concept exist here?

3. When you say "click on a planet to attack it"... is this an instant move? Will there be a concept of jumpships/dropships with time for movement of mechs to the planet in question along established jump lanes?

4. Is it possible to instead of forcing 4 mechs on the drop deck... let the players choose how many mechs in the drop deck? If for example one wanted to simulate a recon mission... one would not send 24 mechs into that fight... one would send one, no?

5. What (if any) are the "win" conditions for Community Warfare? How does a unit (or units) win the game so that everything starts over?

6. It sounds as though being a Lone Wolf in this world is going to be... challenging. You'll constantly be facing 12 man groups of organized players if the defenders don't respond. Could you speak to how this would be mitigated?

That's all I have for now. I think the answers to these will wind up answering others regarding the depth of the implementation of Community Warfare. I hope you have a few minutes to take a look and answer some of these!

Thanks,

~Joker

Edited by SI The Joker, 11 September 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[990Dreams]

I'm gonna be the one homeless guy in CW...

Still looking forward to it though!

[Bhelogan]

Garandos, on 11 September 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

You seem to forget, that there still will be the game modes we have now, those are not going anywhere and that CW will not be "aviable" 24/7.

So, if you like to play Clan tech once in a while, why not grab it?

To paraphrase, "because you can use them in a mini-game that isn't part of the actual game" is basically what you are saying, and what I thought I would hear from PGI. Unfortunately this isn't really convincing for me. I understand it needs to be IS vs CLAN in matches, but I think what we want to know is, can I change which side I'm fitting for depending on what I want to pilot?

[Bront]

Deathlike, on 10 September 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

It's good to know "Clan Mechs" are usable, but that also means there's no "meaningful" Clan vs IS aspect.

There was a line about faction limiting what mechs you could use, so there may be that distinction.

Worse still, you could be limited to particular mechs in those chassis (Though that seems extreme)

[Hoax415]

Deadeye254, on 11 September 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

I would suggest changing the 2 mins to 15 this is standard for time between matches in comp play a organized 12man will have no problem waiting 15min for the epic chance to take a planet.

CoffiNail, on 11 September 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Nikolai Lubkiewicz Take note. This is from CGBI's comp teams leader. I think 2 min is too short as well. Good for game play, but hard for the defending faction. Even extended to 5 or 10 would be a better idea than 2 min.

There are a ton of posts like this. Its very obvious that the mechanics for timing of attacks need to be explained in full detail and sussed out.

From the attacker perspective:
-What determines when and where attacks can be launched? PGI only for both location and timing?
-Do the attackers declare in advance that they will attack X and Y time? Or is it just form a 12-man and push drop during an attack window?
-Are there unlimited attacker slots? Or does every "time window" give X number of attacks that can be launched by a given faction at a given location?

From the defender perspective:
-How far in advance are the "attack windows" (not sure what else to call them) known?
-How big will they be? Obviously if each window is 15minutes, during which time X number of attacks total can be launched... That's a wildly different time/manpower requirement from for 6/24 hours anyone who wants to form a 12-man and attack gets to attack.
-Is the defending unit expected to have multiple defensive 12-mans at once? Or are the # of simultaneous attacks limited?


My personal thoughts:
There are many games that have had systems to schedule conflicts at specific times. Hopefully someone can look into some of those. Because right now we don't have the details to feel sure this system is actually going to work.

We may end up really badly needing to give defenders some help. Additional tonnage or asymmetrical maps or both.

[Xavier]

what if some pilots do not have a mech in a certain weight class, alignment. IE some players may not have clan assaults or IS heavies. How will they choose their four mechs if they don't have a mech in a class to fill.

[Jacob Side]

^ This.

Or forcing player who pilot light mechs that have no interest in piloting assaults?

[Steinar Bergstol]

Xavier, on 11 September 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

what if some pilots do not have a mech in a certain weight class, alignment. IE some players may not have clan assaults or IS heavies. How will they choose their four mechs if they don't have a mech in a class to fill.

Trial mechs I imagine.

[CharlieChap]

Thinking about this a little more today and in light of some of the clarification...

Its seems overly convoluted in 2 ways:-

1) That only premade 12 mans can attack. If any unit could attack and the attacker roster could also be composed of smaller units and solo players just like the defenders, it would allow everybody the chance participate in both attack and defence ...
(12 man premades can still do it so they will still be a force multiplyer anyway ....)

2) Biding for defence. Why before the attack and then everybody waiting around 24/7 on the off-chance that they may get a call to arms ?.

With no Logisitics involved, why not bid for defence after the attack is declared ?. That way the system is instantly responsive. People arn't waiting around 24/7 for something to happen and there are no Time zone issues.

The process would be simpler and less convoluted and more inclusive.

[Maxx Blue]

Questions:

1. You mentioned the RESTRICTIONS if you pick a faction (Mech choice and planets you can fight over), but what are the ADVANTAGES to picking a faction? Why shouldn't I just pick 'Lone Wolf' and fight in whatever mech and whatever planet I want?

2. The timers to form a group and pick a mech seem very short. This is going to make every defense feel like a hastily thrown-together group (almost like the old PUG queue with groups) for the defenders, while the attackers are free to have a full pre-made. At least that is how it seems from the description. What is being done to prevent attackers from having an advantage in the amount of time they have to organize and assemble a group compared to the defenders?

3. Will attackd/defend also be available in the PUG queue, or is it CW-only? I ask because it seems like it would quickly become the prefered mode for farming XP/CBills given that it allows respawns.

4. What are the rewards to an individual player for winning a CW match. Do we still get CBills and XP? Are there some sort of faction points that help us somehow?

5. Is there any opportunity to customize the mech in your drop deck at all before the match starts? I'm assuming the answer is 'No', but wanted to check.

6. Would you consider allowing TWO mechs of each weight class in the drop deck? That ways player could have two different builds that they could pick from depending on the map they will be fighting over. Like a long- and short-range mech, or a hot and cold map mech. That way they can more effectively customize what they are bringing to the upcoming map without being forced into a particular weight class to get the same effect. Having only a single mech in each weight class as an option still makes it difficult to feel like you are bringing the right mech to the upcoming fight.

[Nayonac]

1) How do the reinforcements work, say you have the initial wave of 12 mechs defending and 12 attacking,
will all 12 need to die before the next wave comes? or will it be time release.
So scenario a) defending team waits behind the gate with LRMS and light spotters and smashes the attackers 12 - 0 the second wave spawns, is this now 24 vs 12? or will a new mech drop as each one dies upto a certain mech limit.

scenario Mechs spawn over a set time period so every 10 minutes a new wave of 12 spawns on each side and you have say an hour to fight for the planet or however long it maybe.

2) Groups in community warfare will be hard limited to players in the same unit. This is to re-enforce faction gameplay so you will not see groups of mixed Kurita and Davion for example.
So if we dont have 12 in a unit on we will not be able to fight ? Also say we have 6 in our unit who are CSJ and there is another CSJ with 6 would you be able to combine ?
if so will you be adding any faction based communications channels,even just an in game chat channel where you can talk to everyone in your faction to make arranging matches easier.