314 replies to this topic

[shadows96]

and if you watched the 2 videos above you will notice that ammo does not explode just a somewhat slow burn

[shadows96]

but then again there have been reports of the turret of tanks flying into the air after the ammo was hit

[syngyne]

Averam, on 22 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

It's funny to me that everyone is speaking as if we've ever tried to detonate a fusion reactor. How do we really know how one will react (if there were any viable reactor types at all?)?

Detonate, no. But plasma containment's lost before. I can't find the link anymore, but I think it was on an ITER mailing list. One of the physicists was asked what happened when a fusion reactor lost containment, and the answer was "not much." A millimeter or so of surface material inside the reactor was burnt, and I think he said the reactor shifted a centimeter or so. That's it.

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Fusion energy is the combining of 2 atoms and harnessing the energy released from that reaction. It is assumed that the sun is a constant fusion reaction, and from here, to me it kinda looks like someone cored THAT mech and it is still burning...

The sun also has a titanic amount of mass, creating an equally titanic amount of gravity and pressure to keep all the reactants squeezed close enough. That's one of the reasons why our fusion reactors today have plasmas that are fifty times hotter than the sun... we have no way to generate or contain that kind of pressure, so we have to go the other way and make the plasma really really hot to ensure that there are enough reactants with enough kinetic energy to fuse when they bump. Keeping that plasma hot enough and contained to a small enough area is very, very hard, so any little thing that goes wrong basically causes the reactor to fizzle out.

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So I am supposed to believe that if I were to interrupt a nuclear reaction by, say, placing a spent uranium shell into the middle of it I wouldn't be releasing said copious amounts of energy into the wild? It simply would fizzle out like a big fart? I find that hard to believe.

The plasma inside a reactor is very, very hot. It is also carried by a very, very small amount of mass. If any impurity ends up inside the reactor (like air, a uranium round, etc) it's going to soak up the plasma's heat and cool it to the point that the reaction just fizzles out.

Note: I am not a plasma physicist, this is based on research I did for a school project many moons ago.

[Rainrix]

No...
No No No No No

Now stop messing with my love of Battletech... and SCIENCE.

[Gedeon Kane]

'Mechs should be able to be completely destroyed (yes, requiring you to buy another)

[ice trey]

No.

Because.

1) It's not canon. It's just artistic liberties taken by Stackpole. Fusion power doesn't go critical. It's not an atomic bomb
2) That rule punishes any kinds of short ranged combatants. Jenners, Commandos, Cicadas, Hunchbacks, Atlases and Stalkers... All of them would be punished for closing into optimum range and dueling with an opponent. That just promotes a sniping game.

[Vanguard319]

I think that an ammo explosion should be more likely to happen from excessive heat. Still, you have a Fusion reactor in a land-based weapon system, and safeties can fail. It wouldn't be a common occurence, but I think having a mech's engine go critical and explode should be possible.

[Sychodemus]

Science says no.*

As cool as big explosions can be, it adds another cheeseball aspect to a Mechwarrior game. You should win 'Mech battles through tactics and accurate/concentrated fire. Not by dying. Trekpole explosions would simply add an easily abused gimmick.

If repairs are going to be part of MWO, a detonated 'Mech means you no longer have that 'Mech (or specifically the engine.) I do not relish the idea of having to spend millions or tens of millions of C-Bills every other match.


*I know this is a crazy setting where most of science is blatantly ignored, but we each may choose to draw the line somewhere.

Edited by Sychodemus, 22 June 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[OfficerTaco]

Having a nuclear explosion would make the game VERY annoying when mr.flamers with no heatsinks light runs up to you, overheats on purpose, then suicide bombs you.

[syngyne]

ice trey, on 22 June 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

2) That rule punishes any kinds of short ranged combatants. Jenners, Commandos, Cicadas, Hunchbacks, Atlases and Stalkers... All of them would be punished for closing into optimum range and dueling with an opponent. That just promotes a sniping game.

Probably the most important argument against.

[shadows96]

I have one thing to say IT'S A VIDEO GAME! that is all

[Vanguard319]

ice trey, on 22 June 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

No.

Because.

1) It's not canon. It's just artistic liberties taken by Stackpole. Fusion power doesn't go critical. It's not an atomic bomb
2) That rule punishes any kinds of short ranged combatants. Jenners, Commandos, Cicadas, Hunchbacks, Atlases and Stalkers... All of them would be punished for closing into optimum range and dueling with an opponent. That just promotes a sniping game.

You're right, fusion isn't used in an A-bomb, But all modern Thermonuclear weapons (H-bombs) are powered by a fusion process. It wouldn't be like in MW4 or Mechassault since mechs are described as having safeties in thier engine designed to scram the reactor in an emergency, but safeties do occasionally fail. Therefore, the idea of a mech going critical isn't completely far fetched, at most, being a rare occurence.

Think of it this way: the mech's engine is like a small star, and stars sometimes go nova.

Edited by Vanguard319, 22 June 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[shadows96]

because we have been here discussing if it is possible and someone finally mentioned the important thing that in the end game play would be affected thank you sir

[Dataman]

shadows96, on 22 June 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

oooh, my apogies sir, thanks for the correction I thought the reactors where your basic uranium oxide reactor

well.. people in 31st century won't take risk piloting a walking nuclear time bomb if that's the case.

aand...

no. it's not fision reactor. it's fusion reactor. it doesn't make your mechs go BOOOOOOM!!! and leveled a city.

it... fries your mech components and could burn the ammo rack. maybe the only explosions you should be caution of are the explosions from ammo rack.

a destroyed mech generally still intact and the shape still recognizable. the skeletal structure still can be salvaged (except from damage where you lost your arms, legs, and a very heavy beating from heavy weapon (PPC, Gauss, Arrow IV).

but inside, all the cables, component, PCB board, everything it is all fried up and can't be used again.

Edited by Dataman, 22 June 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[shadows96]

but a massive explosion would still be cool to see

[Lipot]

What most people think about in a nuclear fusion breach is the possibility of oxygen getting in faster then the safeties work. Fusion reactor designs are based on hydrogen being fused into helium. Contained properly, it produces a lot of energy and heat with no harmful products. But add a bit of oxygen to the mix and now there is a chance of some nice explosions. All current knowledge is based on how the process should work but there has not really been much success in the area. Part of the reason people think that an explosion can occur. The way I look at it is this. Yes, there should be a potential of an explosion due to the shielding being breached but the chance that will occur should be less then 0.05%. Ammo explosions should be more common and would happen before a reactor failure.

[Artifice]

No chance. As has already been stated in a million other threads :

An engine coring hit sometimes results in a boiler-style explosion, which can still be devastating to anything nearby - but it's not a 'critical mass' reactor and cannot result in a nuclear explosion.

The fusion reactors used (and any fusion reactor that exists currently) rely on a strong magnetic field keeping a plasma circuit under enough pressure that fusion can occur. If the field is broken then the fusion reaction will dissipate, but you still have a breached chamber full of plasma at 2 million Celsius. This is what causes the boiler explosion, sudden superheating of the surrounding air.

And on top of that - Overheating and ammo explosions do not even threaten your engine with this catastrophic result. Your Mech's engine is made to shutdown before the core is breached.

2000 years of engineering will see to your safety (and positive gaming experience) for the most part, but every once in a while you should expect to see a Mech explode. It happens, but it's still no nuke.

Edited by Artifice, 22 June 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Haakon Valravn]

FactorlanP, on 22 June 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

^This deserves repeating.

It escapes me why so many seem to find him to be such a fine writer.

Same reason people adore JJ Abrams, Tim Burton, Quentin Tarantino, &c.: They're idiots.

[Teralitha]

In a world of fiction, real life science does not apply. Exploding mechs for the win. Yes, they are in, get used to it! muhahaha... BOOM!

[LongFang]

i distinctly remember blowing up by mistake and destroying a enemy mech near me... or was that heavy gear? Didn't Ghost Bears introduce that element? Or was it just 'overheating' when someone blew up next to you?

Edited by LongFang, 22 June 2012 - 10:30 PM.