314 replies to this topic

[Gorthaur]

Harabec Weathers, on 22 June 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Oh Stackpole you annoying, mediocre writer, look what you've done to battletech in the name of "Cool".

Torban, on 22 June 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

They can't go nuclear because their fusion not fission. I hope MWO won't be Stackpoled.

i loved both of these. i have always thought stack pole was the worst when it came to the btech novels. "oh look, i am a normal sized human being who can sporadically jump into an elemental with a broken leg and take out a whole army!!!!"

[Tincan Nightmare]

Major Bill Curtis, on 23 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Well, let's see. Regarding nuclear explosions from a battlemech:

Canon says no.

Physics says no.

Game balance says no.

In the face of this, primates being made happy by bright lights is not a compelling argument.

Teralitha, on 23 June 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

You have been trumped by logic.

So where is your logical reply?

Teralitha, on 24 June 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

But... But... dice rolling was part of BT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Silly person... we are not talking about a dice roll. Look closer....

Considering that your talking about mechs randomly going nuclear and exploding, then yes it is a 'roll of the dice' you are talking about, a random factor beyond the control of the players.

[Dataman]

that is all

my explanation is in page 4

[Aegic]

Gorthaur, on 24 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

i loved both of these. i have always thought stack pole was the worst when it came to the btech novels. "oh look, i am a normal sized human being who can sporadically jump into an elemental with a broken leg and take out a whole army!!!!"

He was super lucky, super smart, and had time to plan a trap. Plus if I wanted to just read things that were realistic and there were never any crazy heroes or underdogs I would just read NON-FICTION all of the time.

[TimberJon]

Everyone needs to stop citing Sarna.net when referring to fusion reactors and their risks of explosions, etc.. There is a higher authority at http://www.iter.org.

An excerpt from the FAQ:

Could ITER explode? (Or any commercially built / military grade Fusion Reactor)

"In a tokamak fusion device, the quantity of fuel present in the vessel at any one time is sufficient for a few-seconds burn only. It is difficult to reach and maintain the precise conditions necessary for fusion; any disruption in these conditions and the plasma cools within seconds and the reaction stops, much in the same way that a gas burner is extinguished when the fuel tap is turned off. The fusion process is inherently safe; there is no danger of run-away reaction or explosion."

Source from: http://www.iter.org/faq

Edited by TimberJon, 24 June 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[TimberJon]

Gorthaur, on 24 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

i loved both of these. i have always thought stack pole was the worst when it came to the btech novels. "oh look, i am a normal sized human being who can sporadically jump into an elemental with a broken leg and take out a whole army!!!!"

I'll admit his Fortress Draconis series was okay, but his latest Cartographer series doesn't warrant any attention.

[Antagonist]

This is one of the things I absolutely loathe Michael Stackpole for.

[Blackfire1]

This is a repeat thread. But technically if an engine is hit in the perfect way for it to crit and possibly explode damaging those around it. I think it should. However that doesn't mean it should cause a chain reaction killing and critting all the other mechs around it.

Even more so with an XL engine.

Edited by Blackfire1, 24 June 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Blackfire1, on 24 June 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

This is a repeat thread. But technically if an engine is hit in the perfect way for it to crit and possibly explode damaging those around it. I think it should. However that doesn't mean it should cause a chain reaction killing and critting all the other mechs around it.

Even more so with an XL engine.

But if the mechs are close enough together, and this is now a possibility in the game, it could happen. Would suck to have your company go out like a bunch of fusion dominos.

[Kasiagora]

TimberJon, on 24 June 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Everyone needs to stop citing Sarna.net when referring to fusion reactors and their risks of explosions, etc.. There is a higher authority at http://www.iter.org.

An excerpt from the FAQ:

Could ITER explode? (Or any commercially built / military grade Fusion Reactor)

"In a tokamak fusion device, the quantity of fuel present in the vessel at any one time is sufficient for a few-seconds burn only. It is difficult to reach and maintain the precise conditions necessary for fusion; any disruption in these conditions and the plasma cools within seconds and the reaction stops, much in the same way that a gas burner is extinguished when the fuel tap is turned off. The fusion process is inherently safe; there is no danger of run-away reaction or explosion."

Source from: http://www.iter.org/faq

Thanks! This is the kind of information I was hoping for.

[Lightfoot]

Include Mech Core Breach as a rare event to enhance roleplay, doesn't have to cause any damage since MWO is an MMO, but it does have to happen every once in awhile.

Core Breach explosions are part of the popular MechWarrior lore now.

MechWarrior is not science, it's science fiction. And into that fiction the core breach event has been added in such large amounts that it is expected RP now. It's too late to back away from mech core breach explosions. They have used it in most MechWarrior games. I know it requires a special rulesset in TT, but it is in TT also so adding it breaks no rule.

[Alex Wolfe]

FactorlanP, on 22 June 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Fusion reactors don't go out of control like fission reactors, quite the opposite. The process is delicate and finely tuned. Messing with that balance should cause the reaction to stop, not go out of control.

Basically, this. Fusion reactors don't "go nuclear", it's a theoretical truly "clean" energy source.

Even the "dirty" fission reactors (the type we use today) have no history of blowing up in a fully critical manner even in huge disasters. In short - when a mech goes critical it's the "rule of cool" at play, but them using fusion reactors make that "pure nonsense".

Lastly, resources being precious in both IS and Clan space is a big point of the universe, it wouldn't make sense that nuclear weapons would be strictly banned but vehicles people use are basically walking nuclear bombs... thus, fusion power makes sense. Reactors blowing up in a nuclear explosion... take that sense away again.

Lightfoot, on 24 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Include Mech Core Breach as a rare event to enhance roleplay, doesn't have to cause any damage since MWO is an MMO, but it does have to happen every once in awhile.

Core Breach explosions are part of the popular MechWarrior lore now.

MechWarrior is not science, it's science fiction. And into that fiction the core breach event has been added in such large amounts that it is expected RP now. It's too late to back away from mech core breach explosions. They have used it in most MechWarrior games. I know it requires a special rulesset in TT, but it is in TT also so adding it breaks no rule.

I haven't seen a mech go full nuke (like in the trailer) in any Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games so far. So I have no expectations for MWO to suddenly add them. Mechs do explode, but most of the time it's just a "regular" explosion, easily explained by the heat.

It may be there in fiction (as science fiction tie-in novel are quite often of an atrocious level and basically get away with any nonsense they want), but definitely not in the games.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 24 June 2012 - 01:24 AM.

[Remarius]

Would be so open to abuse its scary... hey lets send the lightest mech we have to grapple their heaviest and die.....

[Lightfoot]

TimberJon, on 24 June 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Everyone needs to stop citing Sarna.net when referring to fusion reactors and their risks of explosions, etc.. There is a higher authority at http://www.iter.org.

An excerpt from the FAQ:

Could ITER explode? (Or any commercially built / military grade Fusion Reactor)

"In a tokamak fusion device, the quantity of fuel present in the vessel at any one time is sufficient for a few-seconds burn only. It is difficult to reach and maintain the precise conditions necessary for fusion; any disruption in these conditions and the plasma cools within seconds and the reaction stops, much in the same way that a gas burner is extinguished when the fuel tap is turned off. The fusion process is inherently safe; there is no danger of run-away reaction or explosion."

Source from: http://www.iter.org/faq

MechWarrior is science fiction cast 1100 years in the future. Sorry to say the Tokamak reactor is an archaic device that barely functioned. A prototype fusion reactor designed to boil water for a steam turbine generator that couldn't even power itself. Stop trying to extrapolate Tokamak's design 1100 years into the future.

[Adrienne Vorton]

lol now we put enough evidence into this thread (scientific) that makes clear there is no nuclear boom if a fusion breaches..but hey, most ppl don´t read anyway

this will go on for ever i think...

[Lightfoot]

Alex Wolfe, on 24 June 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

Basically, this. Fusion reactors don't "go nuclear", it's a theoretical truly "clean" energy source.

Even the "dirty" fission reactors (the type we use today) have no history of blowing up in a fully critical manner even in huge disasters. In short - when a mech goes critical it's the "rule of cool" at play, but them using fusion reactors make that "pure nonsense".

Lastly, resources being precious in both IS and Clan space is a big point of the universe, it wouldn't make sense that nuclear weapons would be strictly banned but vehicles people use are basically walking nuclear bombs... thus, fusion power makes sense. Reactors blowing up in a nuclear explosion... take that sense away again.


I haven't seen a mech go full nuke (like in the trailer) in any Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games so far. So I have no expectations for MWO to suddenly add them. Mechs do explode, but most of the time it's just a "regular" explosion, easily explained by the heat.

It may be there in fiction (as science fiction tie-in novel are quite often of an atrocious level and basically get away with any nonsense they want), but definitely not in the games.

Actually MechWarrior 3 had full core breach explosions if a 'mech critically overheated. It was excluded from multiplayer because of Flamer 'mechs exploiting it, but if you give an AI Bot a config that could overheat alot like a Supernova they occasionally went up in a little mushroom cloud about 30 meters in diameter. Left a big crater too!

Edited by Lightfoot, 24 June 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Teralitha]

Tincan Nightmare, on 24 June 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

So where is your logical reply?



Considering that your talking about mechs randomly going nuclear and exploding, then yes it is a 'roll of the dice' you are talking about, a random factor beyond the control of the players.

Uh... no it isnt. Once your armor is gone, and you get hit in the armorless area... engine go boom, dead. Thats not random at all. Im not talking about a random chance of getting boom dead, Im talking about ALWAYS getting boom dead.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Lightfoot, on 24 June 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

MechWarrior is science fiction cast 1100 years in the future. Sorry to say the Tokamak reactor is an archaic device that barely functioned. A prototype fusion reactor designed to boil water for a steam turbine generator that couldn't even power itself. Stop trying to extrapolate Tokamak's design 1100 years into the future.

there´s many other sources as well that state same things... and don´t you think a future fusion reactor would be even saver? well... just say "frakk the science, i want a walking nuke"... i could live with that statement... but a fusion reactor is NOT a bomb, and can´t go boom like a bomb.. period...for a fusion bomb to go boom you need a fission bomb as ignitor.. simply put, don´t wanna get it all out again

[Aegic]

All I can say is they need to add something to the deaths of mechs, because right now they are pretty boring.

If you look at I think it was their Scout video the Catapult that dies at roughly the 2:04 mark



looks very similar to this



I definitely support at least small scale or even cosmetic only explosions.

Edited by Aegic, 24 June 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Aegic, on 24 June 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

All I can say is they need to add something to the deaths of mechs, because right now they are pretty boring.

If you look at I think it was their Scout video the Catapult that dies looks very similar to this



I definitely support at least small scale or even cosmetic only explosions.

yea thats another story, i could live with ---say--- some electric flashing manteling the engine/ torso when the core breaches, some nice effect (like it appeared in mw4 BEFORE the boom for example)

but i dont think a nuclear blast is even necessary, aside from the technical part