446 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

At no stage have i stated or even mentioned i represent the community, you are the one saying the community wants it you are the one saying you represent the community dont twist things mate.
Nice of you to thro in the (youre not selected so you got butt hurt), the Ego thing we know who it affects, the ones with a couple hundred forum supporters thinking they represent the MWO community (hey look we represent the Community, no we dont know them we cant talk to them but this is what they want, because we say its what they want), You dont and even Russ has told you in the past that youre nothing but a loud minority (forum goers), his words not mine.
So get of your high horse and stop pretending your representing anyone but your own wants, you want a council, you want to feel important, what the General community wants no one knows, cause they dont even know whats going on.

Actually we have a pretty solid idea on most of what the community wants. You would too, if you actually sift through the forums, and read the threads.

EDIT: Then again, what do I know, it's not like I haven't been on these forums for a long time and haven't been talking to people here over all kinds of things. I'm averaging more than 6 posts per day right now, and that includes the first year where I had almost no activity on the forums.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 16 September 2014 - 04:20 AM.

[N0MAD]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

stuff

Ok beter explain the Sailor thing, During WW2 there was a Fighter pilot, South African by the name of Adolf Malan, commonly known as Sailor Malan, your name every time i see it reminds me of this gent.

[Fut]

TamCoan, on 16 September 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

I really dislike this idea of "forced government". There is no one on these forums that I give the power to speak for me. If I have an opinion or idea than I'm perfectly comfortable expressing it myself. The idea of a council seems ego driven. Add in that some of the names on the list seem to be pretty biased in their opinions and I really don't feel like it is a good idea.

Great.
Please provide us with a link to you proposed ECM changes.

[IraqiWalker]

grml666, on 16 September 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

If you force all players to vote, before the game starts, it is ok... but such dicissions should not be done without the majority of players... A high tunrout must be granted ...

Could you elaborate that part please?

[TamCoan]

IraqiWalker, on 16 September 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Again, read what the council actually does.

Instead of you voicing your opinion, and having the very likely chance of not actually being heard at all. The council will be able to look at it, and try to present it to PGI.

The council isn't really speaking for the community so much as translating what the community says.

Take any single debate thread we have right now, and I can guarantee that out of 50 pages, you might end up with 4 or 5 usable posts. The council will be able to highlight those posts, instead of leaving them buried in some thread that will be forgotten.

Nope, still don't agree. I've been a member of a player council in the past, as well as watching other similar concepts implode. The council would highlight the posts that IT feels are usable. If you put people in the group that all have similar opinions than that is what gets the priority. If they all have different opinions than they devolve into infighting. the simple fact throughout time remains, you can't govern by committee. I simply doesn't work.

Fut, on 16 September 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Great.
Please provide us with a link to you proposed ECM changes.

wtf does that have to do with anything? That's pretty arrogant. And another reason why I don't want people like this in a council.

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Ok beter explain the Sailor thing, During WW2 there was a Fighter pilot, South African by the name of Adolf Malan, commonly known as Sailor Malan, your name every time i see it reminds me of this gent.

I see. In that light... Sorry. Knowing the reason is good, thanks.

But a Lesser Marine would still be offended by being compared to a... any military man that isn't a Marine!

[Livewyr]

One key item that keeps slipping away:

The players vote on the proposals the council (Task Force) puts together.

This happens before it goes to PGI.

[N0MAD]

IraqiWalker, on 16 September 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Take any single debate thread we have right now, and I can guarantee that out of 50 pages, you might end up with 4 or 5 usable posts. The council will be able to highlight those posts, instead of leaving them buried in some thread that will be forgotten.

This is just the point, you say that out of 50 posts you might end up with 4-5 usable posts, thats your opinion and yours only, obviously the guys that posted those un usable posts may disagree but no, because you or some one else deems them un usable he doesnt get a say. So much for community imput right?.
This is exactly what will happen some guy on the council reads posts has a diff opinion or has little regard for some ones opinion and wont include it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Actually from Russ's post its sounds more like PGI gives the task to the Task Force. They in turn brainstorm with the community.

[N0MAD]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

I see. In that light... Sorry. Knowing the reason is good, thanks.

But a Lesser Marine would still be offended by being compared to a... any military man that isn't a Marine!

Ya but Marines are only hired navy help.

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

This is just the point, you say that out of 50 posts you might end up with 4-5 usable posts, thats your opinion and yours only, obviously the guys(I'll call these guys Smiley) that posted those un usable posts may disagree but no, because you or some one else deems them un usable he doesnt get a say. So much for community imput right?.
This is exactly what will happen some guy on the council reads posts has a diff opinion or has little regard for some ones opinion and wont include it.

And each member then adds their 4-5 usable posts to the list, cause no two players here thinks alike.

Second Smiley has a say. His post was posted. he said his piece. If there is little to no support from the thread itself, why should the committee be forced to recognize a little respected idea?

Are the players here so thin skinned they cannot handle rejection? Seriously?

[N0MAD]

Livewyr, on 16 September 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

One key item that keeps slipping away:

The players vote on the proposals the council (Task Force) puts together.

This happens before it goes to PGI.

You mean the small Forum population with its vested interest groups dont ya, cause as you know the Majority of the population doesnt come to the forums, small point tho i mean a few hundred voting for thousands?. Seems totally legit.
Also they only get to vote on what the council deems is worthy what they assume is viable in another words their own opinion.

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Ya but Marines are only hired navy help.

Which makes the Navy Seaman a inferior form of Marine Life. Go ahead... Ask a Marine about Squids!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 September 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[Why Run]

Hagoromo Gitsune, on 14 September 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Seriously, I had very huge doubts that MWO in Players Council hands not gonna turn into unbalanced rubbish. Also there is serious doubts that Players Council not gonna change into a POP-star X-Factor alike contest where the elected councilors will turn the game balance issues for personal goods and a bunch of a Forum-FanGils will not make lobby which will affect fraction in the game.

They are so untrusted that better PGI'll screw some bits of game play than some little procent of a players get undeserved advantage.

VOTE AGAINST PLAYERS COUNCIL... STAY SAFE!

How about no.

[N0MAD]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

And each member then adds their 4-5 usable posts to the list, cause no two players here thinks alike.

Second Smiley has a say. His post was posted. he said his piece. If there is little to no support from the thread itself, why should the committee be forced to recognize a little respected idea?

Are the players here so thin skinned they cannot handle rejection? Seriously?

Any council should respect any idea because once they start rejecting ideas all they are presenting is their own view.

[IraqiWalker]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

This is just the point, you say that out of 50 posts you might end up with 4-5 usable posts, thats your opinion and yours only, obviously the guys that posted those un usable posts may disagree but no, because you or some one else deems them un usable he doesnt get a say. So much for community imput right?.
This is exactly what will happen some guy on the council reads posts has a diff opinion or has little regard for some ones opinion and wont include it.

No, by usable I don't mean posts I agree with. I mean posts that aren't "ECM sux". Posts where people actually offer help and suggestions, instead of just decrying something. Also, I didn't say out of 50 posts. I said out of 50 pages.

Go sift through the Gauss/ERPPC thread, and see out of all the pages how many posts are helpful. By the way, that thread is probably the best of the bunch, and I can safely say that less than 10% of all the posts in there actually offered something besides this fix sucks. Mind you, I had a few posts in that thread that were just "This idea is stupid", and I recognize them for what they are, opinions, that offer no alternative solution that can help.

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Any council should respect any idea because once they start rejecting ideas all they are presenting is their own view.

Yes, but if the choice comes between picking a suggestion that is liked by 80% of the community, versus an idea liked by less than 10%, then the 80% one should be considered more heavily, and should be picked over it. It's that simple.

That's how the U.S. election has been working for at least 2 centuries. Or are you saying the U.S. has had 2 presidents governing it since it's inception. I could have sworn that during the election only one president gets picked. The one with the most votes. Not the one with the least votes, traditionally.

[Kenyon Burguess]

the majority of the player base doesn't understand how game development works, and most don't understand online game balance for combat and theres even the special few who don't even seem capable of using math in their day to day lives. I don't want to see mwo players voting for changes. no thank you on having a council representing us.

[N0MAD]

IraqiWalker, on 16 September 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

Actually we have a pretty solid idea on most of what the community wants. You would too, if you actually sift through the forums, and read the threads.

EDIT: Then again, what do I know, it's not like I haven't been on these forums for a long time and haven't been talking to people here over all kinds of things. I'm averaging more than 6 posts per day right now, and that includes the first year where I had almost no activity on the forums.

And i have been here since the start see that emblem below my name? im not as vocal as you obviously but that doesnt mean i dont read.
So how does that match up our what we each know?

[Joseph Mallan]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Any council should respect any idea because once they start rejecting ideas all they are presenting is their own view.

Respect it is one thing. Passing it up the chain? Well that is part of what they are chosen/elected for. To filter the best proposals up the chain.

Or they could be presenting the forums ideas. if said idea is a stupid one. Should "Small lasers needs to do 20 damage, for -4 Heat." Be given equal time as say, "Small lasers could use a tweak to burn time so it can put more damage on target?"

One is a reasonable suggestion. One is not. The forum debates it and the committee confirms. Not all Suggestions deserve respect. Sorry but it is just a cold hard fact that some would be happy to troll that line of thinking.

[IraqiWalker]

N0MAD, on 16 September 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

And i have been here since the start see that emblem below my name? im not as vocal as you obviously but that doesnt mean i dont read.
So how does that match up our what we each know?

If you have been reading through the forums, then the discussion is settled, you'd know how the council would get a feel for what the community wants. Our forums are loaded full with threads that have suggestions and discussions in them that are actually great, and viable. I don't see anything wrong with highlighting these ideas, and bringing them into further discussion with the larger community instead of just the ones that posted in the thread.