75 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Sorry.. playing tonight for the first time in a few months and each time... with me in the sub 50 pings, I've had instances in which I was shot and disabled by attacks coming from targets that, by my screen, had no way at all to shoot me.

Why am I being penalized for having a good connection? I understand the need to normalize the ping across the spectrum but the way you choose to address this issue penalize those who have better connections disproportionately because there is no way for us to possibly defend ourselves against someone registering a shot that, to us, is 'in the past'.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

Sorry.. playing tonight for the first time in a few months and each time... with me in the sub 50 pings, I've had instances in which I was shot and disabled by attacks coming from targets that, by my screen, had no way at all to shoot me.

Why am I being penalized for having a good connection? I understand the need to normalize the ping across the spectrum but the way you choose to address this issue penalize those who have better connections disproportionately because there is no way for us to possibly defend ourselves against someone registering a shot that, to us, is 'in the past'.

You may have a low ping, but could have high packet loss to go with it. Back in the day my cable connection was that way (great pings but it would drop 25-40% of the packets). There are programs out there that track it might be worth a trip to the Googles to find one and see if it is MW:O or your connection.

[Foxfire]

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

Sorry.. playing tonight for the first time in a few months and each time... with me in the sub 50 pings, I've had instances in which I was shot and disabled by attacks coming from targets that, by my screen, had no way at all to shoot me.

Why am I being penalized for having a good connection? I understand the need to normalize the ping across the spectrum but the way you choose to address this issue penalize those who have better connections disproportionately because there is no way for us to possibly defend ourselves against someone registering a shot that, to us, is 'in the past'.

Just to add a situation... What is fair about me running across a gap that, to my screen, is clear of enemies.. only to be destroyed by an enemy firing from that gap that didn't show up on my screen because they were there 'after' I passed the gap? I say this because most of the situations that I run into this issue is in which I run through a clear gap and am shot through a wall by someone that was located in the gap 'after' I cleared it.

Those who shoot at a target deserve to be able to hit it.. but those who avoid an attack deserve to avoid it. It needs to be fair for both those who have low ping and those who have high ping. Let me defend myself.. please.

Dark DeLaurel, on 19 September 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

You may have a low ping, but could have high packet loss to go with it. Back in the day my cable connection was that way (great pings but it would drop 25-40% of the packets). There are programs out there that track it might be worth a trip to the Googles to find one and see if it is MW:O or your connection.

My packet lost tends to be very low every time I check it.... on the order of 0% lost.

[Griggio]

Lag compensation in it's various forms have been the bane of competitive shooters for a long time now. At some point you just learn to deal with it.

I'm not sure, but I dear hear mention of continuing passes and tweaks to HSR and Hit Reg are ongoing, but until all players come off their 56.k dial up connections or stop trying to play off their old 3G phone HSR is just something we have to live with

[Darian DelFord]

Can't tell you how many times I have had a PPC come through the rocks to kill me (

[Dark DeLaurel]

'you say you are having 0% packet loss, how are you measuring this?

[Mycrus]

Just give me a damn Asia server.

[Eboli]

Happens to players with higher ping as well.

I have died after running around a corner. When mechs shoot me they don't even have to look at me and their lasers are usually hitting me when showing they missed me by a good 10m.

I'd kill for a ping under 125 (average 240-280) and I'd still rather have PGI control hit registration on their server rather than let players PCs control it because of potential hacking.

You just have to get used to it.

Cheers
Eboli

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Foxfire ... I've got news for you ... while this only happens to you some of the time, it happens to those of us with higher ping most of the time.

Spot a Dire Wolf 800m away ... duck behind cover ... and half a second later, blam (where'd my torso go?)

I'm not discounting your experience vs. high ping players, but my experience is, it happens almost all the time.

[Reitrix]

HSR is only emulating where the shooter and the victim were in a zero ping environment.

Also,

Griggio, on 19 September 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Lag compensation in it's various forms have been the bane of competitive shooters for a long time now. At some point you just learn to deal with it.

I'm not sure, but I dear hear mention of continuing passes and tweaks to HSR and Hit Reg are ongoing, but until all players come off their 56.k dial up connections or stop trying to play off their old 3G phone HSR is just something we have to live with

Really? Do you have any idea on how the internet works?
I have a 100mbps Fiber connection, yet my MWO latency is 286.

Distance to server is as important a factor as connection speed.

[Felio]

As a person with an excellent connection, I vividly remember the time I saw an autocannon shell explode in the dirt to my left, then a second later my arm blew off.

But, as others have said, it works both ways. If you have 400 ms ping, the server thinks you are where you were .4 seconds ago, and the guy with 100 ms ping shooting at where you were .5 seconds ago hits. At least that's how I understand it.

Dungeons and Dragons Online has server-authenticated movement. You tell the server you are moving, it responds that you can, and then you see yourself move. It's... it usually works. But the occasional hiccup it causes would be disastrous in a shooter. That game does not have PvP outside of duels in taverns. I think they do it to bust teleport hacks.

[KharnZor]

Mycrus, on 19 September 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

Just give me a damn Asia server.

Thou shalt suffer like the rest of us

[ShadowFighter88]

Griggio, on 19 September 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Lag compensation in it's various forms have been the bane of competitive shooters for a long time now. At some point you just learn to deal with it.

I'm not sure, but I dear hear mention of continuing passes and tweaks to HSR and Hit Reg are ongoing, but until all players come off their 56.k dial up connections or stop trying to play off their old 3G phone HSR is just something we have to live with

Reitrix, on 19 September 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

Really? Do you have any idea on how the internet works?
I have a 100mbps Fiber connection, yet my MWO latency is 286.

Distance to server is as important a factor as connection speed.

Reitrix is right - connection speed doesn't matter if you're halfway around the globe from the servers. Not sure how quickly the signals travel along the international cables (they're fibre-optics so I assume the speed of light, but I don't know the distance nor exactly how quickly light can cover it) but that's as much of a slow-down as the signal leaving those cables and getting processed to run along a country's normal landlines.

I've regularly had a great internet connection for years now - download speeds averaging at around 400-500 kbps, now closer to 1 mbps now that the NBN's gone in - but my ping for MWO is still usually somewhere above 260-280 or thereabouts.

Hit-reg's been okay for me, or at least good enough that I don't notice any serious wonkiness. Okay; slight exaggeration, I do seem to have to lead my shots a bit more than I should, even with lasers. But frankly I never expect any sort of lag-compensation measures to be 100% accurate. And the extra lead I need to give doesn't feel excessive; just don't ask me to make precision shots on anything going over 90kph at more than 500m.

Edited by ShadowFighter88, 19 September 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[Pika]

Eboli, on 19 September 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I'd still rather have PGI control hit registration on their server rather than let players PCs control it because of potential hacking.

While being concerned about hacking is absolutely a valid concern, Planetside 1 and 2 have been using CSHD for years and instances of hacking are very, very rare. Countermeasures can be put in place!

And honestly I don't see the BT community resorting to that. Well. Mostly.

[Symbiodinium]

Northern hemisphere problems. I'd trade my 330 ping for your sub-50 ping in a server-authenticated heartbeat.

[Foxfire]

Symbiodinium, on 19 September 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

Northern hemisphere problems. I'd trade my 330 ping for your sub-50 ping in a server-authenticated heartbeat.

PGI's solution is to guarantee that Sub 50 ping acts like 200+ ping. Seems that the 'sweet' spot for avoiding wonky hit detection issue is ~150 ping.

Yay arbitrary systems.. instaed of doing something to address the problem, such as regional servers.. they choose to make sure that people are screwed across the board.

[iDame]

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

Just to add a situation... What is fair about me running across a gap that, to my screen, is clear of enemies.. only to be destroyed by an enemy firing from that gap that didn't show up on my screen because they were there 'after' I passed the gap? I say this because most of the situations that I run into this issue is in which I run through a clear gap and am shot through a wall by someone that was located in the gap 'after' I cleared it.

You make it sounds like PGI has specifically gone out of their to make sure your lag is tweaked.

I play with 250~320 ping and the game works great. Only time I feel my ping is trying ballistics on a light mech.

[Foxfire]

iDame, on 19 September 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

You make it sounds like PGI has specifically gone out of their to make sure your lag is tweaked.

I play with 250~320 ping and the game works great. Only time I feel my ping is trying ballistics on a light mech.

If it didn't feel like PGI was specifically tweaking low ping connections, it wouldn't be an issue. Like I said, I understand the need for equalization of connection speed... but there needs to be limits on what they do.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

If it didn't feel like PGI was specifically tweaking low ping connections, it wouldn't be an issue. Like I said, I understand the need for equalization of connection speed... but there needs to be limits on what they do.

have any proof that they are actually griefing sub 100 people?

[zortesh]

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

PGI's solution is to guarantee that Sub 50 ping acts like 200+ ping. Seems that the 'sweet' spot for avoiding wonky hit detection issue is ~150 ping.

Yay arbitrary systems.. instaed of doing something to address the problem, such as regional servers.. they choose to make sure that people are screwed across the board.

Hsr is the way to address the problem, aussie/nz wouldn't have the pop to maintain a active server on this game, hsr lets us play together at relatively equal footing.

Foxfire, on 19 September 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

Sorry.. playing tonight for the first time in a few months and each time... with me in the sub 50 pings, I've had instances in which I was shot and disabled by attacks coming from targets that, by my screen, had no way at all to shoot me.

Why am I being penalized for having a good connection? I understand the need to normalize the ping across the spectrum but the way you choose to address this issue penalize those who have better connections disproportionately because there is no way for us to possibly defend ourselves against someone registering a shot that, to us, is 'in the past'.

Your not being penalzied for a good connection, infact you still probably win out of it, you probably shoot people with 200+ pings after there in safety of a regular basis, if we went player end for saftey you'd have alot of missed shots, or anyone in the southern hemissphere would just lose always every time.

Yes you'll get hit occasionally through walls, everyone does including highpingers, but as a nz player, I can say hsr makes this one of the only shooting games where I can play and not feel at a ridiculous disadvantage.