192 replies to this topic

[AssaultPig]

What sorts of offenses are under consideration for being forgiven?

[Thirdstar]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 September 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Nobody got banned for fact-based criticism. They got banned for being unable to do so in a civil way. They well deserved it.

And you know this how? Please post examples.

[Cmdr Rad]

Paramemetic, on 14 September 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

I'm really also curious about how players who were preemptively banned are supposed to know what they were preemptively banned for.

Yeah, I'm curious as well. I've never been banned, so I don't know how they lay things out, if at all, but the people who have claimed to have been banned haven't posted any sort of communication from PGI concerning the ban. That's why in the other thread I was suggesting that there be some sort of moderation-report/quasi-habeus corpus generated on a moderation event.

[Voyager I]

C'mon guys, I'm also curious to see how PGI fares in repairing its community relations but we don't need do anything crazy like defending Niko "already got fired from this job once" Snow's community management policies, especially given that the various shitstorms he created are a huge part of why we even need to do this in the first place

[ApolloKaras]

Thirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

I've seen that sort of behavior from both sides. Are you implying that only the 'banned' ever displayed this? I find that very to believe.

In fact you are taking part in what is known as an Ad Hominem attack i.e. attacking the messenger instead of the message. Specially since you're attacking people incapable of defending themselves in this venue.

This is what I would consider a troll post. Look up these individuals. Look at some of the insults they threw about. Someone with 15,000 has more opportunity to troll. You've seen it on both sides of sure, but I wonder how many of those were baited and should have just hit the report button instead.

The fact that you are attempting to put me on the defensive is weak and laughable.

Edit in regard to negative feedback and being banned I've been critical of the game. Hell even mocked up a Ui example. I'm still here... Thirdstar if everyone that criticized the game was banned we wouldn't have anyone here.

Edited by Saxie, 14 September 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Thirdstar]

Saxie, on 14 September 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

This is what I would consider a troll post. Look up these individuals. Look at some of the insults they threw about. Someone with 15,000 has more opportunity to do so. You've seen it on both sides of sure, but I wonder how many of those were baited and should have just hit the report button instead.

The fact that you are attempting to put me on the defensive is weak and laughable.

Wat?

[ApolloKaras]

Thirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Wat?

" Wat " part didn't you grasp.

[Thirdstar]

Saxie, on 14 September 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

" Wat " part didn't you grasp.

If you're feeling like you're being put on the defensive then that's on you. You're also continuing speculation about intentions you have no way of knowing. That's pretty weak rhetoric.

Hence 'wat'. It's a sign of being perplexed by your response.

[Russ Bullock]

Hey guys maybe we should just lock this down now, its degrading into a debate. The end result is were all taking a fresh approach and were looking to let some players back in to come help out. Let's bring it back to that or we can just lock this up and leave it for the original purpose of letting players know how to contact me etc.

[o0Marduk0o]

He doesn't understand how good criticism looks like. Probably just a "follower" of those banned guys. No point in discussing with him, if he doesn't see the insults being made.

[Domenoth]

Thirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

[a quote regarding universal ban reasons]
And you know this how? Please post examples.

I have to agree. Unless you personally issued each and every ban I don't think you could make such a unilateral statement. I think it would be possible to say that all the people you know of who have been banned exhibited the behavior described. But that's as strong of a statement that you can make.

[Javenri]

I wonder what was the reasons for permanent bans. Game rules violations? Forums/social media violations? Can we have a more detailed analysis on the various reasons these players were banned?

Personally, I feel that PGI is not paying enough attention on the game rules violations, but that's me. In any case, I believe that any kind of vioaltion (game/forum) should not lead to permanent ban, rather limited time punishment with scaling in case of repeating offenders. Permanent ban should only occur in severe cases of multiple violations (aka. soneone doesn't really care for rules) and no chance of return should be allowed.

[Illegal Username]

I think a blanket unban would be the best course of action right now. Just send out a "We've unbanned you but you're on probation for the time being so watch your ****" boilerplate message out, and get players back in the game and the forums.

Because the second someone is denied return you've going to have a brand new PR shitstorm in your lap whether it is warranted or not.


(it's probably going to be warranted but w/e)

[Thirdstar]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 September 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

He doesn't understand how good criticism looks like. Probably just a "follower" of those banned guys. No point in discussing with him, if he doesn't see the insults being made.

That's rather dismissive of you. I've been involved in the community since the Closed Beta days. I remember when we helped the Next Mech Thread get repinned. We debated the viability of MGs endlessly till they put in the crit fixes. I personally attempted to spearhead a better new player experience and an expanded tutorial.

I left these forums when the General Discussion section was removed the first time.

Once again you've defaulted to Ad Hominem attacks. Perhaps Russ is correct and this thread should be locked because it's clear that one side of the 'debate' isn't interested in anything of the sort.

[Karl Streiger]

Some of those "banned" members - have a reputation - and i was really a little bit shocked to see two names on the list - on the other hand there were two other names that - deserved to be banned (considering their last appearance in the forums (toxic))

But it would be unfair to make differences, simple reinvite the banned - and see how things play out

On the other hand (I have to add) its simple to get a warning or a suspension - write much at it will happen. Even if you didn't want to be negative, toxic or insulting - just a bad joke or some statements, were you don't have evidence in the moment of posting.
Ok the best defense to get warning is - don't go to the forums if you are in bad mood.

[Cmdr Rad]

Russ Bullock, on 14 September 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

I expected at least some of these feelings. Regardless It's my starting point for now. Many out there taking the wait and see approach with PGI and that is fair, think of this as a similar wait and see response from us. It's an olive branch they can reach for, I am a very reasonable person, just email me.

Fair enough. What about the people who are supposedly IP Banned though, who can't read any of the olive branches you've offered? or the e-mail you posted for them to contact you?

Edited by Cmdr Rad, 14 September 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

Cmdr Rad, on 14 September 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Fair enough. What about the people who are supposedly IP Banned though, who can't read any of the olive branches you've offered? or the e-mail you posted for them to contact you?

People who are banned can view forum posts if they aren't logged in to an account, or are browsing with a non-banned account.

[o0Marduk0o]

Thirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

I remember when we helped the Next Mech Thread get repinned. We debated the viability of MGs endlessly till they put in the crit fixes. I personally attempted to spearhead a better new player experience and an expanded tutorial.

All fine and how it should be.

But 3 names come to my mind (all with a large post count, you can guess who is it) and those put their energy in toxic behavior in almost any thread they were posting in the last time. There are much more who can't give constructive feedback but what to expect of adults who behave like children? Don't defend them because they deserve no defense.

[EvilCow]

A good initiative for a fresh new start. Thumbs up.

[Kiiyor]

For our returning players, this is entirely relevant:



I learned self-control from the Street.