136 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

From my point of view PGI should have left all the clan mechs alone OP or not and worked on buffing the IS mechs to a point they were still viable and competitive in the game.To much time and resources are spent by PGI on nerfs and balance issues that really did not need to happen before more content was added to the game. Nerfs to jump jets or ECM is in the same category as clan mech nerf which = they were never needed in the first place.

[SmurfOff]

GetterRobo, on 17 September 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Seriously on a Clan mech like Warhawk - the left torso is basically useless since it's pre-filled with DHS and internal structures - losing that means that half of your weapons is effectively gone from the left arm and you still want to further NERF the Clan for loss of ST??

Why is following the rules of the IP that Mechwarrior is based on called a NERF? I agree that PGI has done a terrible job of following core rules, but this a by product of the way they have blended turn based mechanics with real-time actions. But I think universally, we could all agree that mechs are way to resistant to damage that the core rules call. For engine hits, there is DEFINITELY a precedent for a heat increase. losing a side torso is a Near Death Experience for a clan mech, and you do not just keep moving like you were.

If anything, there needs to be more penalties for critical hits on multiple systems. Speed and turn reductions for gyro and actuator hits, temporary loss of vision on cockpit hits, etc.

[IsaAurinkoinen]

KingCobra, on 17 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Nerfs to jump jets...

Is one of the best thing happened to this game. Poptarting is practically gone. And lights and mediums still has good maneuverability with jump jets. Today not all IS heavies are CTF-3D's. Now broader part of IS mechs are viable because jump jets aren't mandatory anymore. IMO

Edited by IsaAurinkoinen, 17 September 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

I wonder what the "IS tweak" will be to bring a 15 ton 7 slot IS Gauss into line with the 12 ton 6 slot Clan Gauss....

[Murphy7]

Jonathan Paine, on 17 September 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

I wonder what the "IS tweak" will be to bring a 15 ton 7 slot IS Gauss into line with the 12 ton 6 slot Clan Gauss....

IS Gauss Capacitor module - hold the charge longer, at cost of longer cooldown period.. Incompatible with IS Gauss Cooldown module.

Get me this two months ago, please.

[Bishop Steiner]

Murphy7, on 17 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

IS Gauss Capacitor module - hold the charge longer, at cost of longer cooldown period.. Incompatible with IS Gauss Cooldown module.

Get me this two months ago, please.

Or simply reduce the 3rd range bracket from the clan Gauss?

[Carrie Harder]

Jonathan Paine, on 17 September 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

I wonder what the "IS tweak" will be to bring a 15 ton 7 slot IS Gauss into line with the 12 ton 6 slot Clan Gauss....

Murphy7, on 17 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

IS Gauss Capacitor module - hold the charge longer, at cost of longer cooldown period.. Incompatible with IS Gauss Cooldown module.

Get me this two months ago, please.

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Or simply reduce the 3rd range bracket from the clan Gauss?

How about...

1. Increase Clan Goose Waffle explosion chance to 100%.
2. Increase IS Goose Waffle health to, I dunno, like 7?
3. Maybe also reduce IS Goose Waffle explosion chance a little bit (70-80% neighborhood?).

Edited by Carrie Harder, 17 September 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Russ Bullock, on 17 September 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

IS Mech runs XL and loses a ST they die

Clan Mech loses ST they Live and are still fairly deadly.

Fixing it so they actually lose some Engine heat sinks at the least seems very reasonable

This is where we need to start, I think. Almost every Clan build I have stacks HS in the arms. Having an ST shorn off is a nightmare for heat efficiency. MLAS suddenly feel less efficient than ERPPC's. Compounding this with a few lost engine HS will likely have a large effect, especially for some of the bigger mechs.

Also, we need to remember that once a mech, any mech loses a torso (and doesn't die) their time on the battlefield is likely swiftly coming to an end anyway. Lumping torso loss penalties on the Clans probably won't have that large an effect on balance, but it might very well make matches closer, and i'm all for that.

[Sorbic]

Careful OP, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to expose your tidbits in public like that.

Edited by Sorbic, 17 September 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[Procyon Alpha]

So SWJ and Lords are going to play IS because it is balanced right?.....LOL

[Gyrok]

Livewyr, on 17 September 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

I think the ST destruction penalty will probably line it up fairly well. (might even need to undo some of the weapon nerfs)

Clan XL is about the most overpowered thing about them. Bring that in line, and it will probably be done.

That is the ONE thing that is propping up the fact that clan weapons are basically inferior across the board...

PP FLD is still king guys...dance around it all you want, the reality is, nothing has changed for the IS. There is just more stuff to shoot at now...

Yeshua Kerensky, on 17 September 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

So SWJ and Lords are going to play IS because it is balanced right?.....LOL

Actually 228th, SwK, SJR and SRoT are all staying in the Inner Sphere...

Of the "tier 1 teams" only HoL is actually Clan faction.

But Clan is OP right...?

[pwnface]

Forgot CSJ.

[Hillslam]

mongo2006, on 17 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Look Russ, I've been saying for a while you can't nerf SKILL! To nerf clan mechs any further would be totally unfair to the pilots that have been playing for years. We have learned how to build and use our mechs properly, and thats why we win.


*...blah blah blah, blarge blargle blah. snarfblat higgey boo boo tigglesworth. blah blah blahhhh....*

[Divine Retribution]

So let's say clan and IS mechs are modified so that both clans and IS win 50% of the time. How does the invasion get past the first few border worlds, let alone threaten to reach Terra, if the IS retakes worlds as quickly as they lose them? Will PGI manually move the borders to create the invasion corridor, marking invasion progress that player battles can't back up?

Players don't like to lose and I'm not supporting clans stomping the IS in every fight until newer IS tech is released (if it happens), I'm just pointing out that the invasion needs to be considered into the Clan vs IS balance discussion. I suppose it could be completely ignored as well in a manual invasion corridor border creation, but will players have any more sense of accomplishment than they do now in random battles, knowing their wins and losses aren't really reflected on the map? Winning 50% of the time doesn't mean the Clans end up with half of the Inner Sphere, it means a bloody stalemate on the border of the Inner Sphere.

[Fiona Marshe]

Russ Bullock, on 17 September 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

You guys have already been told the plan - I am still hoping to not touch their weapons again.

- IS Quirks

and at the least fix what I consider a bug when a clan mech has there Side Torso destroyed yet they keep 100% of their Engine heat sinks. At the least we need to fix that with their ST destruction.

These items and I hope were there

In short Clan players - smile life is good

The traditional +10 Heat per Turn (10 seconds) from two engine hits would help.

[Procyon Alpha]

Quote

Actually 228th, SwK, SJR and SRoT are all staying in the Inner Sphere...

Of the "tier 1 teams" only HoL is actually Clan faction.

But Clan is OP right...?

The news in the grape vine is when CW comes out if it does not change they are fielding clans. You have to play to win, and that is not IS right now.

[-Natural Selection-]

Sandpit, on 17 September 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

one of the ideas being floated is an increase in heat production with the loss of an ST for clan mechs. At the very least the loss of heat sinks contained in that particular ST engine slot. Losing 2-3 internal heat sinks per side torso would be a good way to balance them. I don't think the weapons are the issue personally

EDIT:

Dammit! See? That's the downside to dev participation on the forums. You think you have good insight, post it and get ninja'd by the dam prez lol

So ummm, how does it make sense to say you loose 2-3 heat sinks say on a stormcrow when the engine only occupies 2 slots? At most that would be one heatsink..

[Zensei]

mongo2006, on 17 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Look Russ, I've been saying for a while you can't nerf SKILL! To nerf clan mechs any further would be totally unfair to the pilots that have been playing for years. We have learned how to build and use our mechs properly, and thats why we win.

We've even adapted to your nerfs resulting in us becoming even better pilots, I bet in the data you'll find our hit rate went up as well, we are more careful with our aim. and conserving heat.

The fact IS every noob that comes to this game is a (IS) pilot, they don't know the maps, they can't properly build a mech, they don't have or use the wrong modules, they don't know where the kill zones are for each map, they won't do the one thing that gives the (IS) the clear advantage ZERG! If they would just have the heart and coordination to work together, the clans wouldn't have a chance. But that's something you learn over time.

But you would rather punish clan pilots so that people who are new to the game have an artificial advantage that negates our skill level? Trust me dude that 20% drop in win rate was 15% noobs with clan mechs and 5% Clan vets throwing the fight to avoid the NERF HAMMER. Skill and Coordination can't be nerfed Russ, we are at a tipping point where experienced pilots are going to abandon clan mechs and start piloting our (IS) mechs, or the more experienced pilots are going to leave the game. We have our noobs too that shut down every 2 shots, Dire Wolfs with 40 damage and dead, Timber Wolves with nothing but missiles and 2 medium lasers because they can't manage the heat of 3 lasers, disgusting..


TYPICAL (CLAN VS IS MATCH)


Chat: we moving right, ignore whats behind, we have missiles for that.

Chat: you got it..

Chat: Sounds good

Chat: copy

the whole group moves to the right and creates a firing line.. we wait for stragglers then we move side by side, not behind each other..

UAV goes up, the noobs have no idea what it is, I take out the DDC with missiles over any other mech, he was dumb enough to be on the front line. Clan firing line focuses anything that pops it's head up, we all have lasers so we win the firing line war 90% of the time, but they try 1/2 dead for their efforts.. We're pushing while we fire.. they start running, lights and mediums shoot them in the back, they leave their assaults to fend for them selves..they have crappy builds so I just shoot atlases in the left eye they drop like rocks, the rest we just arti to death (IS) noobs are too cheap for arties and air strikes. Missiles are on anything with missiles, AMS or ECM driven away from the rest of them they are now completely exposed. they have nothing left to stop the missiles or firing line, but can't fight because the firing line is moving on them, missiles are dropping on them, the firing line has them locked.. they run and die. All the rest are dead, we're just looking for a shut down Raven.. Boom we win...

Chat (IS): clan mechs are OP

Chat (IS): clan pilots are missile noobs that's why they won.. no honor..

Chat: STFU and learn to fight


If they had just turned and went after the Clan firing line they would find that 50% of clan mechs would be shut down because of heat at any given time, they don't know or don't have the leadership and heart to mix it up, to do what their mechs are designed to do. that's why they lose. The Lords are one of the few groups I've seen fight clan mechs the way they should be fought, and they win 80% of the time.


I don't think it's fair that Clan pilots have to pay for (IS) lack of piloting skill or tactics, leave the mechs alone and teach the (IS) how to properly fight them.

Excuse me? I'm poor and have no clan mechs, been here since the closed beta April 2012 and you are saying I suck. thats just messed up, I would say see you on the fields but last time I did that I got a 24 hour ban because IGP forgot its a virtual game and not a real threat. But still you are kinda saying it.

[mongo2006]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

why do I never see this argument made by the players WITH skill?

Audivo, JagerXII etc are the very ones arguing Clans ARE OP.

Funny that.

Perhaps someone overestimates his 1337 creds?

Dude if you think those are the only 2 skilled Clan pilots (the argument and probability alone makes it sound stupid) You're smoking some good sheet. I'm not going to waste my time naming people I've come across that I respect as pilots but the numbers between Clan and (IS) would be about equal. The problem is the influx of brand new people flooding into the (IS) ranks that the skilled (IS) pilots have to fight beside. Needless to say the skilled (IS) pilots can't make up the skill gap.

And if you have any question about my skill level I would love to fight you one on one and twitch it so all can see.. If you don't accept the challenge then obviously you have your doubts about your skill.. I don't.


UPDATES

NERFS

Some of the nerfs where just token nerfs to shut (IS) pilots up and make them feel all warm and fuzzy. Unfortunately, instead of looking at clan mechs individually and nerfing them with quirks (as I suggested weeks ago) some clan mechs where just functionally destroyed such as the Nova, the Nova can hardly function with the same load of a 6x med laser Jenner, that's just inexcusable.

ELO

The funny part is my ELO puts me right at the middle level where I'm fighting brand new pilots, their ELO hasn't had the chance to go down yet and I just chew them up like bubble gum. I had 50+ mechs and had to try them all and died a lot when I first started playing.. my ELO has been playing catch up for months, now I'm all green and climbing. I think work in this area needs to be done as well, I'm putting 50-75 kills on my KDR per week, I'm sure as my ELO goes up more that will taper off a bit.

[Hoax415]

The premise of this thread is entirely debunked and his been for months. It would be sad seeing lesser intellects and lesser pilots still scrambling to believe this "IS pilots just suck more" dreck if it wasn't so predictable.