129 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghostwolfe, on 19 September 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

That's pretty mean of you to post this. You and your 12 man team was just one of the teams. There were others but we played yours twice. No chance in hell of beating it. You are one of the very players who LIKE a 12 - 0 game in your favor and seeing you post here that comment is just asinine. I don't even give your question or opinion any weight after seeing this from you.

I don't see a problem in this happening. I drooped against some pretty impressive groups Saturday night. One of my team mates seemed to know a lot about them all, and we just wanted to make the matches painful for the OpFor.

We keep paring down the user base we will eventually have just one on ones. I came here looking for a Giant Robot War Sim/FPSI keep reading Full pads light contact football. It bugs me.

Kushko, on 20 September 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Why wouldn't the same team act like adults and/or want skilled and organized teams to go up against to actually prove their skill.

Tell me...would you feel like a big man if you beat a 12yo at arm wrestling?

I guess it would depend on how well trained the 12 year old was! Are you suggesting you are a 12 year old playing a combat video game?

[9thDeathscream]

1 open solo up to small groups (1 group only of up to 3 man in size)
2 Set Group sizes to 4 8 12 only.
3 Than Pair the Group up against each other.

4+4+4 vs 4+4+4
8+4 vs 8+4
12 vs 12

This will hopefully stop the huge stomps in the Group queue. At the same time having a minimal effect on the solo queue.

Lets face it most of the time solo is still a stomp fest. Having 1 2-3 man group per side wont have a huge difference.

Flame shield active.

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

Lets face it, with the current system. We are not going to keep new players. Also we are loosing current players. Who wants to go in a small group just to get stomped 10 times a night?

My wife wont play. She said no, not fun getting stomped. -1 player
My boys wont play Group queue anymore and have nearly stopped playing because they cant have fun grouping with me. They are on the verge of quitting.
And I avoid the Group Queue like its has the plague.

At least in solo queue, when u get stomped its usually bad luck, paired with bad team work. Now who wants to multiple those issues again and go against a stacked team?

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Squally160]

I understand peoples frustration with the current matchmaker. It is tough for 2 man groups.... Sometimes. Nobody complains when that 2 man gets paired with a ten man and stomps.

Also what i am readingis people want t splitthe ques even more. No bueno i say.
We do need better release criteria. Or as was mentioned bonus weight for teams. But this happens already. As group q breaks down. Ive seen teams of 6 whales before. It does the best it can with our relatively small playerbase.

Im not saying it cant be better, but its not entirely on the devs to fix. As a community i feel we should try to increase the playerbase in the group que. Join a unit, hop on the multiple community teamspeaks. I know we welcome new players with us if they have a good attitude and are more than willing to show them the large group side of drops. But people need to do their part to help with it.

Aswell, a better ingame community system would be a massive help.

Posting on phone. Ignore grammar mistakes thanks.

[Joseph Mallan]

E N E R G Y, on 20 September 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

Why wouldn't a competitive team, who strives to be the best and plays to win, want anything but a 12-0 game.....?

Cause maybe they'd like a challenge to their reputation?

[MischiefSC]

Splitting queues just leads to groups syncing in the smaller queues and the larger ones going dry.

[Hoax415]

Its not going to be split.

There is one actual concrete problem with the current system that is such a problem that its worth fixing.

Very new players (think sub 100 matches) can't play with a friend because once they are placed in group queue they are just fodder so out of their depth that they will barely even learn anything.

This is a horrible play experience. It is amplified by the fact that learning to play MWO all on your own is pretty much **** so new players these days are mainly coming from being introduced to the game by an existing player who then isn't allowed to play with them and teach them without ruining their game experience thanks to the group queue problem.

Everything else in this thread is useless QQ that you will find in any game that has a ranking system or a matchmaking system. Its an utter waste of time, just like threads about how matchmakers "force" 50/50 or intentionally setup bad teams to punish players because reasons boohoohoo.

[Namicus]

Kushko, on 19 September 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think 2-3 man groups should be put in the "solo queue" and hardlock the group queues to 4/8/12 man groups. This way you have no "we have 9-10 ppl and we need to mix and match another 2-3 in to our group to make a full group" and would also fix the small group of friends that really dont want to get rolled by an organized full 12 man.

Russ, you want people to bring their friends in to the game and not get discouraged by playing together in small groups. A 2-3 man group will never roll over an enemy pug team, especially if the matchmaker also puts a 2-3 man group on the other team.

So 2-3 man teams get put in solo queue and 4/8/12 hardlocked teams (you need 1,2 or 3 full lances to queue) for group queue and organized play. Simple and effective solution for both types of players and along with the vote instead of hardlock choices it would go a long way to fix most current MM problems.

THIS!

I solo play MWO probably three or four times a week. One day a week I have set aside to group with my buddy to play as a team. The both of us are on the edge of saying "No More" because there is absolutely no fun in:

a) constantly having our group split up into two lances (happens ~ 30 to 40% of the time)
getting rolled 12-1 several matches in a row.

The way it is now, there is literally a DISINCENTIVE for playing as a group with my buddy. It shouldn't be that way. We log on and withing 10 minutes we talk about playing something else because of the frustration we feel.

I have tried to get two other people (with lots of disposable cash) to play, but they got so frustrated after the roll-a-thon, they refused to play again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't two-mans used to get grouped into the solo queue? I remember playing with my buddy in the past, and we were pretty good, but I doubt seriously that we tipped the advantage to our team. And I remember having a lot more fun and a lot less frustration.

[IceSerpent]

Namicus, on 23 September 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

THIS!

I solo play MWO probably three or four times a week. One day a week I have set aside to group with my buddy to play as a team. The both of us are on the edge of saying "No More" because there is absolutely no fun

I fail to see why you think that "group queue is no fun for a 2-man -> let's make solo queue no fun also" idea is better than "group queue is no fun for a 2-man -> let's fix the group queue" one.

[Triordinant]

Namicus, on 23 September 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

THIS!

I solo play MWO probably three or four times a week. One day a week I have set aside to group with my buddy to play as a team. The both of us are on the edge of saying "No More" because there is absolutely no fun in:

a) constantly having our group split up into two lances (happens ~ 30 to 40% of the time)
getting rolled 12-1 several matches in a row.

The way it is now, there is literally a DISINCENTIVE for playing as a group with my buddy. It shouldn't be that way. We log on and withing 10 minutes we talk about playing something else because of the frustration we feel.

I have tried to get two other people (with lots of disposable cash) to play, but they got so frustrated after the roll-a-thon, they refused to play again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't two-mans used to get grouped into the solo queue? I remember playing with my buddy in the past, and we were pretty good, but I doubt seriously that we tipped the advantage to our team. And I remember having a lot more fun and a lot less frustration.

Russ Bullock already stated that groups of any size was bad for the solo queue, and he knows better than any of us in the forums because he can see the data.

[CG Chicken Kn]

More like he said small groups were bad for the matchmaker, not so much bad for the solo queue.

ONE group per side, up to THREE people in that group. All of the small group must be in different weight classes. Never let one side have a group unless the other side does too.
And solo queue gets better, not worse. Large groups that have 9 or 10 can easily get 2 or three fillers. After all, they have been telling us how easy it is to "go get some friends" since closed beta. So obviously it won't be a problem for them at all.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I wonder if it would hurt to have "Solo Queue" actually allow groups of 2 into the mix.
I also play with a casual friend and It sucks that rolls happen so often when we play.

[Triordinant]

CG Chicken Kn, on 23 September 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

More like he said small groups were bad for the matchmaker, not so much bad for the solo queue.

ONE group per side, up to THREE people in that group. All of the small group must be in different weight classes. Never let one side have a group unless the other side does too.
And solo queue gets better, not worse. Large groups that have 9 or 10 can easily get 2 or three fillers. After all, they have been telling us how easy it is to "go get some friends" since closed beta. So obviously it won't be a problem for them at all.

His exact words:

"Honestly any groups in the solo queue really screws it up. The solo Queue right now is actually pretty amazing with an average team elo difference of around 40. Exact weight class matching 95% of the time etc.

It is the group queue that is frustrating players - especially groups on the smaller side."

That means the solo queue is "pretty amazing" so don't touch it. The problem is with the group queue, so find solutions that fix that without touching the solo queue that doesn't need fixing.

AntiCitizenJuan, on 23 September 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

I wonder if it would hurt to have "Solo Queue" actually allow groups of 2 into the mix.
I also play with a casual friend and It sucks that rolls happen so often when we play.

Bad idea according to Russ Bullock's post.

[CG Chicken Kn]

It screws the matchmaker up, not necessarily the games themselves. Which are two entirely different things.
I would rather wait longer than get fed to the wolves with my one buddy who has 4 games under his belt.
Group queue with two or three in the group already has longish wait times. Especially with three.

Volume of players would cure a lot of sins. Unfortunately, not being able to run small groups in any meaningful way means LESS players, not more. Of the 20 plus people I got to play MWO, who were never mech players before, I have less than a 10% retention rate. That cannot be good. For anyone.

[Triordinant]

CG Chicken Kn, on 23 September 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

It screws the matchmaker up, not necessarily the games themselves. Which are two entirely different things.
I would rather wait longer than get fed to the wolves with my one buddy who has 4 games under his belt.
Group queue with two or three in the group already has longish wait times. Especially with three.

Volume of players would cure a lot of sins. Unfortunately, not being able to run small groups in any meaningful way means LESS players, not more. Of the 20 plus people I got to play MWO, who were never mech players before, I have less than a 10% retention rate. That cannot be good. For anyone.

The people I got to play MWO quit because they were being farmed by 4-man premades when they played solo (we're in different time zones) before there were two queues. The community fought for years on end for a solo-only queue until we finally got it (which PGI finally agreed was a great idea), and we'll fight twice as hard to keep it.

[Steel Claws]

Exactly right. The only reason smaller groups are getting paired with 12 mans is simply because there isn't any 12 mans for the large group to get matched up with now. I got burned out on 12 mans a long time ago. You could take half an hour or more too gather the players and get everyone situated and then set through multiple matchless drops because there wasn't another 12 man in queue. Basically you wasted over an hour for nothing. Now at least you get matched with smaller groups when no 12 mans are available.

Basically the issue is that you have to fill out the drops to make a drop happen - even if that means injecting solo queue players into group play (and I'm pretty sure this happens - just not groups in solo).

[CG Chicken Kn]

Triordinant, on 23 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

The people I got to play MWO quit because they were being farmed by 4-man premades when they played solo (we're in different time zones) before there were two queues. The community fought for years on end for a solo-only queue until we finally got it (which PGI finally agreed was a great idea), and we'll fight twice as hard to keep it.

I also believe it was the 4 man sync drops, and games with two 4 mans on one side with no premade whatsoever on the other, that made solo so bad at that time.


Did you get any of them to come back now? Or tried and not succeeded? That kind of feedback is central to this issue.
And if you did get them to come back, what is their opinion of being in the group queue when only in a small (2 or 3) person group? I posted my personal new player retention rate, and why. You have stated that people left that you had got to play, and why. Also valuable feedback. Any percentage, roughly? Percentage that came back?

PGI can track who left, who came back, etc. But not WHY they came back.

[Triordinant]

CG Chicken Kn, on 23 September 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I also believe it was the 4 man sync drops, and games with two 4 mans on one side with no premade whatsoever on the other, that made solo so bad at that time.


Did you get any of them to come back now? Or tried and not succeeded? That kind of feedback is central to this issue.
And if you did get them to come back, what is their opinion of being in the group queue when only in a small (2 or 3) person group? I posted my personal new player retention rate, and why. You have stated that people left that you had got to play, and why. Also valuable feedback. Any percentage, roughly? Percentage that came back?

PGI can track who left, who came back, etc. But not WHY they came back.

Unfortunately, they both migrated to Titanfall and have not come back. Maybe Community Warfare might entice them...

[CG Chicken Kn]

That's a drag man. I bug my friends once in a while, and we play occasionally. Just not nearly as often as before.
We share a TS used for multiple games, so I can at least say hi.

[Phuri]

I think group que should be set to only 2-4 in a "group" so no more competive 12 man dropping against pug groups anymore. If they want to do more then 4 then they can go to private matches. So instead of 12 man groups you will have up to three 4 man groups on the same team.

Edited by Phuri, 01 June 2018 - 10:40 PM.