279 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

What is TTK?

For the benefit of those of us who don't know, please use the correct terminology once before switching to acronyms.

Cheers!

Edited by Gorgo7, 23 September 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Gorgo7, on 23 September 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

What is TTK?

Time To Kill.

[Daneiel]

IraqiWalker, on 22 September 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

snip;

Be careful when use canon , lore and TT -> that is a blade pointed in two directions - implementing the TT , lore and canon to IS can become much more painful then you think - locking down mechs for days and even weeks if you tuch something more then exchanging lasers for their ER or pulse version , slaping your AC/5 for ultra or AC/10 for LBX and don't forget any touching to your mech will cost you huge amount of C-Bills .

[Gorgo7]

ugrakarma, on 23 September 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Time To Kill.

Thanks very much!

[IraqiWalker]

Daneiel, on 23 September 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Be careful when use canon , lore and TT -> that is a blade pointed in two directions - implementing the TT , lore and canon to IS can become much more painful then you think - locking down mechs for days and even weeks if you tuch something more then exchanging lasers for their ER or pulse version , slaping your AC/5 for ultra or AC/10 for LBX and don't forget any touching to your mech will cost you huge amount of C-Bills .

We're talking about practical implementations. Adding the penalties for damaged engines is not going to be impractical, or cause any hindrance. While locking a mech for months is going to be highly inconvenient for all players.

Clan pods made things faster, but that still took hours and hours. Astronomically faster than IS reconstruction, but still takes a long time.

[Daneiel]

Exactly - you can not use the lore restriction only for the one side ! You need to use them on the both or non , other way you can achieve imbalance - especially at the point when the clan lasers are at the edge of the balance - if you pilot heavy or assault mechs you will not feel it , but on light and mediums its noticeable - IS lights for example run much more faster , pack much more firepower and run cooler , the clan mediums Nova is in terrible position at that point , but that mech was terrible in the TT anyway , the crow prime config was one of the few energy configs that runs completely heat neutral - her did you try it - you will overheat faster then Stalker. The problem are few exceptions - like TW and the DW in some cases and even them compared to some IS abominations are at line - not nerfing the clans is the problem , the problem is that everything getting out of the control with that kind of mech lab and forcing the lore restrictions only for one sides is bad for the game at all - even that i am clan pilot i want much more balanced gameplay - that can be achieve via many ways - from restricting the mechlab at lore parameters ( lockdowns , costing any touch of the mech ) to gameplay mechanic balance ( like removing convergence ) , but forcing the lore only for the one side - bad , really bad - that is symptoms of bias - no BT is biased . If you think that at that point IS are underpowered i suggest - take a Firestarter for a spin and after that take Adder . You can do that with nova and Hunchback - you will see for yourself , but because Timber Wolf , Cataphracts , Jagermechs are not balanced to Summoner , Orion and Dragon you can not call for clan nerfs - you see there is twice more IS mechs that are imbalanced then the clan mechs , so please be honest are you calling for nerfs because of bias or because they are really not balanced toward the game .

[Ted Wayz]

Al Gore banned facts and logic from the internet shortly after inventing it.

Please stick to snarky replies and opinions based upon little or no information. It is what keeps the internet going.

[Brody319]

This is why I suggest Ghost heat have a cap. Only so much ghost heat can be generated in a single instant. Then make each class of mech have a different cap. Then mediums and lights with lower amounts of lasers can fire more quickly without overheating, while heavier mechs can't. They just destroyed the Nova with that heat nerf. Even if you set it to fire one at a time, you still generate so much heat that you overheat.

[MauttyKoray]

stjobe, on 20 September 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

So how do you explain the latest round of IS vs Clan testing then? You know, the one in which Clans still won 73% of matches?

Cause a lot of Clan groups have better players than many of the IS groups, that's why.

[Lord de Seis]

You are aware clan weapons do have lower tonnage yes?

I don't see how anyone can argue that clan mechs have been "over nerfed" they are the deciding factor in most of the matches I play. Granted I play mostly IS mechs and I have only played a small amount in the Nova for clans, which wasn't that great. But if you are complaining about a mech that doesn't serve a lot of purpose how about The Dragon? Or the QuickDraw? The Kinataro? Heck I don't even see that many Highlanders these days.

Clan mechs for the most part still out do their IS counterparts, especially the Timberwolf and Direwolf and no IS mech would stand any chance against them in a 1vs1 situation.

Edited by Lord de Seis, 23 September 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

MauttyKoray, on 23 September 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Cause a lot of Clan groups have better players than many of the IS groups, that's why.

You get a cookie when you spend some time thinking about why those "better players" did switch.

Hint: It is not because the players choosing clan mechs are genetically superior.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 24 September 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Lord de Seis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

You are aware clan weapons do have lower tonnage yes?

I don't see how anyone can argue that clan mechs have been "over nerfed" they are the deciding factor in most of the matches I play. Granted I play mostly IS mechs and I have only played a small amount in the Nova for clans, which wasn't that great. But if you are complaining about a mech that doesn't serve a lot of purpose how about The Dragon? Or the QuickDraw? The Kinataro? Heck I don't even see that many Highlanders these days.

Clan mechs for the most part still out do their IS counterparts, especially the Timberwolf and Direwolf and no IS mech would stand any chance against them in a 1vs1 situation.

They are in the same group of "problem mechs" that suffer from beign inferior. I like the dragon appearance, but yet did not found a single loadout that I would like to play. either they run too hot ot lack firepower. And if you try an Ac on them they have also a low firepower because of lakcing the backuplasers compared to higher mechs in their class. They are at a borderline where they sacrifice speed which the lights have for not enougg firewpower. And this makes them kinda pointless. A quick light can dissipate a lot more fire because they dodge most damage. But the low mediums can not do so, they eat most damage directly to their mech not surviving for long. They are in a pointless area not finding a suitable niche. Same goes for mechs like the summoner. he does not have a proper own purpose that he really does better than a TW. These mechs need more love, no matter if they are IS or clanmechs.

[IraqiWalker]

Daneiel, on 23 September 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Exactly - you can not use the lore restriction only for the one side ! You need to use them on the both or non , other way you can achieve imbalance - especially at the point when the clan lasers are at the edge of the balance - if you pilot heavy or assault mechs you will not feel it , but on light and mediums its noticeable - IS lights for example run much more faster , pack much more firepower and run cooler , the clan mediums Nova is in terrible position at that point , but that mech was terrible in the TT anyway , the crow prime config was one of the few energy configs that runs completely heat neutral - her did you try it - you will overheat faster then Stalker. The problem are few exceptions - like TW and the DW in some cases and even them compared to some IS abominations are at line - not nerfing the clans is the problem , the problem is that everything getting out of the control with that kind of mech lab and forcing the lore restrictions only for one sides is bad for the game at all - even that i am clan pilot i want much more balanced gameplay - that can be achieve via many ways - from restricting the mechlab at lore parameters ( lockdowns , costing any touch of the mech ) to gameplay mechanic balance ( like removing convergence ) , but forcing the lore only for the one side - bad , really bad - that is symptoms of bias - no BT is biased . If you think that at that point IS are underpowered i suggest - take a Firestarter for a spin and after that take Adder . You can do that with nova and Hunchback - you will see for yourself , but because Timber Wolf , Cataphracts , Jagermechs are not balanced to Summoner , Orion and Dragon you can not call for clan nerfs - you see there is twice more IS mechs that are imbalanced then the clan mechs , so please be honest are you calling for nerfs because of bias or because they are really not balanced toward the game .

Interesting points. However, none of them are related to balancing the engines.

As it stands right now, there should be a downside to using the clan XL engine, when you lose a side torso, you should suffer some problems.

You can't argue that something needs to be done to the IS XL engines because when they lose a side torso, they die.

Adding that tweak to clan XL engines will bring overall balance much closer, shut up anyone that's yapping about the clan super XLs, is lore friendly, and eliminates a big point of contention from the debate of IS vs. Clan.

Also, no one is enforcing lore on just one side. IS mechs die when the ST is gone. They can't use pods. No ER weapons, no clan buster mechs, or tech so far ... etc.

More than half your post is unrelated to engine balance, however, I'll point a few things out:

Fixing convergence will help, yes.

However, another thing that needs to be done is un-nerfing IS tech. Since these nerfs have no reason to be there anymore. (I'm not saying remove all negative nerfs. I'm specifically talking about unnerfing energy weapons here)

Lord de Seis, on 23 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

You are aware clan weapons do have lower tonnage yes?

I don't see how anyone can argue that clan mechs have been "over nerfed" they are the deciding factor in most of the matches I play. Granted I play mostly IS mechs and I have only played a small amount in the Nova for clans, which wasn't that great. But if you are complaining about a mech that doesn't serve a lot of purpose how about The Dragon? Or the QuickDraw? The Kinataro? Heck I don't even see that many Highlanders these days.

Clan mechs for the most part still out do their IS counterparts, especially the Timberwolf and Direwolf and no IS mech would stand any chance against them in a 1vs1 situation.

Except for Atlas beating the DWF almost 9/10 times in close range.

Also, I recommend reading the rest of the thread, as that would give you a better view on things. Especially on how the weight/slot argument is almost useless, and what should be done is unnerfing some IS tech.

[Daneiel]

As I said - if you wish to implement the lore - you need to implement it on the both sides - IS XL engine 3 points at side , clan XL 2 points - clan XL losing side torso - slow down and loose 3 DHS - IS mech want to slap the engine -> the cost of the engine + manipulation cost and lockdown of the mech for a week - that is fair .

[IraqiWalker]

Daneiel, on 24 September 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

As I said - if you wish to implement the lore - you need to implement it on the both sides - IS XL engine 3 points at side , clan XL 2 points - clan XL losing side torso - slow down and loose 3 DHS - IS mech want to slap the engine -> the cost of the engine + manipulation cost and lockdown of the mech for a week - that is fair .

No, that's not fair.

IS XLs already have the three slots in the ST, which is why they drop dead when they lose it. Why on earth should we discourage people from customizing their mechs, by tacking on a week of no game play because ... no actually viable reason, really?

You were doing fine with your statement until you hit the "IS mech want to slap the engine" section, then you just flew into unreasonable crazy land.

I'm not even sure if you're talking about IS mechs using IS XLs, or clan XLs (should never be allowed, not until mix tech becomes the norm)

[Daneiel]

That is why i told you - you can not call for the lore only for the one side - that is a blade pointing two ways or you are hypocrite and want to use it only when it feel fine for you - when you implement something you do it on both ways .
Do i like it - no but that is the right way .

[Adiuvo]

Daneiel, on 24 September 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

That is why i told you - you can not call for the lore only for the one side - that is a blade pointing two ways or you are hypocrite and want to use it only when it feel fine for you - when you implement something you do it on both ways .
Do i like it - no but that is the right way .

Uh... why does it have to be all or nothing? There's absolutely no reason for that.

[IraqiWalker]

Daneiel, on 24 September 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

That is why i told you - you can not call for the lore only for the one side - that is a blade pointing two ways or you are hypocrite and want to use it only when it feel fine for you - when you implement something you do it on both ways .
Do i like it - no but that is the right way .

I'm not sure how to respond to this. You do know there is this thing called moderation, right?

There are many steps between implement clan XL CORRECTLY, and implement clan XL correctly, but MAKE IS NOT PLAY FOR A WEEK IF THEY DO ANYTHING TO THEIR MECHS.

You're honestly sounding on the crazy side right now. We're talking about lore for engines, and your argument is that lore should be implemented both ways. However, that means that clan XLs should get the lore fix, since all other engines are already operating according to lore.

You can't have the lore fix be there when you like it, and use it for only one side. That is hypocritical. Those were basically your words, and I'm sending them right back at you. Right now IS XL, and STD engines operate according to lore, but clan XLs aren't operating according to lore. Shouldn't lore be implemented both ways?

As for stalling mechs due to customization: That is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and there is literally no reason to apply that into the game. When we apply lore to a section of the game, that doesn't mean we have to apply it for every single aspect of the game. Otherwise, you need to turn in all your clan mechs, and be banned from participating in CW for the time being, since your clan isn't here yet.


There's applying the lore in a balanced, and reasonable manner, and then there's going off-the-ramp crazy. Your suggestion (and the joke one I made about being banned from CW), are of the second kind. Applying the lore engine fix to clan XLs, isn't biased, and is in the reasonable bracket (after all, IS engines are working according to lore, why should clan engines not work according to lore?)

[Kin3ticX]

Daneiel, on 23 September 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Exactly - you can not use the lore restriction only for the one side ! You need to use them on the both or non , other way you can achieve imbalance - especially at the point when the clan lasers are at the edge of the balance - if you pilot heavy or assault mechs you will not feel it , but on light and mediums its noticeable - IS lights for example run much more faster , pack much more firepower and run cooler , the clan mediums Nova is in terrible position at that point , but that mech was terrible in the TT anyway , the crow prime config was one of the few energy configs that runs completely heat neutral - her did you try it - you will overheat faster then Stalker. The problem are few exceptions - like TW and the DW in some cases and even them compared to some IS abominations are at line - not nerfing the clans is the problem , the problem is that everything getting out of the control with that kind of mech lab and forcing the lore restrictions only for one sides is bad for the game at all - even that i am clan pilot i want much more balanced gameplay - that can be achieve via many ways - from restricting the mechlab at lore parameters ( lockdowns , costing any touch of the mech ) to gameplay mechanic balance ( like removing convergence ) , but forcing the lore only for the one side - bad , really bad - that is symptoms of bias - no BT is biased . If you think that at that point IS are underpowered i suggest - take a Firestarter for a spin and after that take Adder . You can do that with nova and Hunchback - you will see for yourself , but because Timber Wolf , Cataphracts , Jagermechs are not balanced to Summoner , Orion and Dragon you can not call for clan nerfs - you see there is twice more IS mechs that are imbalanced then the clan mechs , so please be honest are you calling for nerfs because of bias or because they are really not balanced toward the game .

PGI promised to not make all their old content obsolete with the launch of Clans. I am still expecting them to deliver on that. What we say here doesn't really matter because the Clan pack guy doesn't his stuff nerfed and the IS purist is like WTF. They are going off of metrics and not heresay on forums.

[hybrid black]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 September 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

There's plenty of trial clan mechs in the queue now too.

but not when the last test was done