52 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

yeah thats what I meant


booooo down with ghost heat!

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 September 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

http://youtu.be/7io0...W7-LkezMuhaJSRQ

The "direstar" a 9 erppc build that works just like the hexastalker did.

Given that the original system was created to stop those mechs and reduce pin point damage (as per Twitter), even though the original mech was a joke just like this one is.

The odd question is how did the mech not explode from heat damage to the CT?

Especially since looking at it on the updated heat simulator 9 clan erppc generates something like 332 heat

Darn corporate internet settings!

[Dolph Hoskins]

Those videos are comical!

I'm not against being able to make such an abomination, but if you alpha with THAT much heat you should have a melt down to death no doubt.

I wouldn't mind for PGI to look into a more suitable overheating damage setup as opposed to what we have now. The more it makes players think twice about hitting the self detonate trigger the better.

Blasting those lights.....just hilarious

[Elizander]

Put two heatsinks in the legs and stand in water maybe.

[Warblood]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0f1696aebd80785
Sure a 9 ERPPC build sounds fun, especially when its got a 139 firepower. But keep in mind that you have to take off around 4 1/2 to 5 tons of armor to get that 9th ppc on and its got a crazy low cooling efficiency of 8%.

The only way I can see a over heat not killing you right way would b to distribute the armor evenly among the front and back, when most ppl die from a overheat its cause the back armor gave out because it has less armor then the front, except if your armor in the front is pretty banged up alrdy.

Nothing good about this build other then it being a good trololololol build.



Could someone test this? set the armor evenly in the CTs .. RT42/42 CT62/26 LT4242... then see how many how much dam is taken when they alpha.

Edited by Warblood, 22 September 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Elizander]

Won't 9 ER LL and 6 MGs not work? DWF-B

[Eddrick]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 21 September 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

But does this mechanics make any sense?
Heat is heat and it has to damage, it has to affect mech, shutdown or no shutdown.

Sometimes an override for a couple of ML can destroy the last bits of your inner structure, in the video he/she/it fires 9 cERPPC with bright red crit CT and survives.

This video is a proof that the current system (no heat damage until override) is really stupid.
In TT firing 9 ERPPCs in any mech just cooks fries the pilot to ashes. And, by the way, does not guarantee a kill, you can miss all of them or spread the hits over the target.

A Mech really shouldn't operate properly/if at all after generating MUCH more heat then it can handle. But, that's the way the mechanic works in game.

Pilot damage isn't accounted for in MWO. It would make people play more cautciously then they already do. Which, can be good or bad. Depending on how patent the person is. Personaly, I would welcome it.

[Dolph Hoskins]

Eddrick, on 22 September 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

A Mech really shouldn't operate properly/if at all after generating MUCH more heat then it can handle. But, that's the way the mechanic works in game.

Pilot damage isn't accounted for in MWO. It would make people play more cautciously then they already do. Which, can be good or bad. Depending on how patent the person is. Personaly, I would welcome it.

I like the sounds of it.
If they want to address things like slightly longer TTK's and giving more emphasis on thinking before firing then making the consequences for overheating more serious would be an ideal way to work on that.

[Wintersdark]

Lynx7725, on 21 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Nah. It's really against the ridiculous amount of ghost heat generated by that many CERPPC... 467.78 total heat in one go, Coolant Flush is not going to make much of a dent in that.

You can get two, potentially three Alphas, but the fact is: After one alpha, you will die. No matter what you do, you'll die. Even with both Coolant Flushes, that's enough heat to kill you. However, heat damage happens as a damage over time effect; as long as your heat is over the max, you take a fixed amount of damage. If it's 300 over your heat cap, or 10, you take the same CT damage per second. This sets a time limit on how long you can live. You generate any more heat, you shut down again instantly. Override shutdown, and you take much more damage per second... you can game Override, though, to power up just as the Override duration is expiring. Once you start up, you'll stay up until you fire a weapon then you immediately shut down again. Carefully worked, this can allow up to 3 alphas (but the 3rd is extremely difficult).

But, that's up to three alphas in a very, very short time frame. You can't power up then stand around, as the clock is ticking and you're taking constant CT damage, so even if you manage to time things perfectly, it's extremely difficult to get three good shots on, as you've got at most one second to aim each time you power up, and no time to move around at all.

I've been experimenting with it For Science, and found that realistically I will always get one kill, and severely damage a second mech, but I've never managed a third hit, let alone 3 kills. Basically what happens is you need to have all three mechs in view when you start firing... and they have to do NO CT damage to you while you hammer, power down, power up, and repeat... three times. That just doesn't happen. A shut down Direwolf that just killed someone draws fire like nobodies business.

Khobai, on 21 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Instead of ghost heat they shouldve just hard limited the number of AC10s/AC20s/Gauss/PPCs you could fire simultaneously to two. Thats all that was needed. We never needed ghost heat on other weapons.

Would have worked for me. Better than Ghost Heat.

[Wintersdark]

I will say, though, despite the tears it generated? Doing 1-2 kills and ~200 damage in a dire wolf is a terrible result, given it's not like you've done any damage to anyone else. It's an aweful way to "spend" an 100t assault, IMHO.

Fun, though.

[Eddrick]

The Ripper13, on 22 September 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

I like the sounds of it.
If they want to address things like slightly longer TTK's and giving more emphasis on thinking before firing then making the consequences for overheating more serious would be an ideal way to work on that.

Pilot damage would also happen if your cockpit got shook to much in TT.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

9 ERPPC Dire Wolf was done when it they became available. Show me the badass who only has one ER small in the CT with no other weapons, wrecking stuff.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 22 September 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Dolph Hoskins]

Eddrick, on 22 September 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Pilot damage would also happen if your cockpit got shook to much in TT.

Sounds ok to me, I use adv gyros

[Eddrick]

The Ripper13, on 22 September 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Sounds ok to me, I use adv gyros

A lot of stuff from TT Battletech works like stuff from a lot of other TT RPGs. Characters life expectancy tends to be very short. It's one of many things I think may be best if they went all the way with it or not at all.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

SuckyJack, on 21 September 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

So all this is is just another boogeyman to be tossed around as hyperbole to scare people.

no... it was a joke.

The overreaction to the original hexastalker sadly wasnt

Lynx7725, on 21 September 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

That build? It'll melt the core down. Takes some times. It can take 2 Alpha shots max, per game... and after the first, it's a foregone conclusion that the DW will melt. If it misses the first, it's kind of wasting the entire mech.

I remember the first tuesday scramble after the Battlemaster came into the game and someone madea BM full of ER PPCs. He exploded after the first shot but he succeeded in getting a headshot on an atlas XD

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 22 September 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FupDup, on 21 September 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Fixed.

I remember it on AC2s lol

You could have a heat neutral K-2, you just had to stuff it full of heat sinks and ammo in the head/chest/legs I think

But if I remember correctly, the ac2 was creating its own ghost heat because therefire rate was less than 2.5 sec, which was why two would overheat a mech

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 22 September 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eddrick, on 22 September 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Pilot damage isn't accounted for in MWO. It would make people play more cautciously then they already do. Which, can be good or bad. Depending on how patent the person is. Personaly, I would welcome it.

I wouldnt for the same reason I hate Warthunder. Given how many things you can get pilot damage with, people would start aiming straight for that rather than destroying your mech. Theres enough ways to one shot a mech now; we dont need more

[Wintersdark]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 September 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I remember it on AC2s lol

You could have a heat neutral K-2, you just had to stuff it full of heat sinks and ammo in the head/chest/legs I think

But if I remember correctly, the ac2 was creating its own ghost heat because therefire rate was less than 2.5 sec, which was why two would overheat a mech

its still a problem with AC2's, and why there won't be a cooldown module for it. What can happen even now is if you're close the the .5s mark, weird latency issues can irregularly cause ghost heat. In a 3 AC2 dragon (thank god those ac2's got nerfed, given it's lethality!) You see it a lot. While firing, sometimes the group fired AC2's will desynchronize a little bit, so instead of basically firing as one the end up firing as a very fast burst. If this burst is long enough to bring the gap to .5s, suddenly you have exponential heat gain.

Or, if you do something ridiculously OP, like run a jag with two AC2's, one in each arm, and have them in two weapon groups. If you don't press both fire buttons at exactly the same time, they keep triggering the .5s ghost heat limit and boom! Exponential heat gain.

Seriously, though, even if you're in favour of Ghost Heat, there's just no reason at all for it to affect AC2's. They already are the weakest AC, and they do very little alpha strike damage (the thing ghost heat is supposed to stop).

Now that they're also the lowest DPS autocannon, there's just no logic to it at all.

(Sorry, I remain very grouchy about how severely Paul ruins AC2's)

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wintersdark, on 22 September 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Now that they're also the lowest DPS autocannon, there's just no logic to it at all.

(Sorry, I remain very grouchy about how severely Paul ruins AC2's)

Tell me about it; I was running a 6 ac2 Jager DD AFTER Ghost Heat (I sold it after the "fix") where I had about 6-7 sec to fire and then I had to hide and cool down. I pulled a couple good 700 damage games with it on Canyon network.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 22 September 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 22 September 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

its still a problem with AC2's, and why there won't be a cooldown module for it. What can happen even now is if you're close the the .5s mark, weird latency issues can irregularly cause ghost heat. In a 3 AC2 dragon (thank god those ac2's got nerfed, given it's lethality!) You see it a lot. While firing, sometimes the group fired AC2's will desynchronize a little bit, so instead of basically firing as one the end up firing as a very fast burst. If this burst is long enough to bring the gap to .5s, suddenly you have exponential heat gain.

Or, if you do something ridiculously OP, like run a jag with two AC2's, one in each arm, and have them in two weapon groups. If you don't press both fire buttons at exactly the same time, they keep triggering the .5s ghost heat limit and boom! Exponential heat gain.

Seriously, though, even if you're in favour of Ghost Heat, there's just no reason at all for it to affect AC2's. They already are the weakest AC, and they do very little alpha strike damage (the thing ghost heat is supposed to stop).

Now that they're also the lowest DPS autocannon, there's just no logic to it at all.

(Sorry, I remain very grouchy about how severely Paul ruins AC2's)

Also, the most OP AC/2 carrier of all time was clearly the 2 AC/2 Raven 4X.