192 replies to this topic

[The Very Old German Wolf]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Before anybody suggests buying premium time or hero mechs or whatever else then that's not happening because I'm not going to spend money to alleviate a worthless, crappy grindfest; I might possibly spend money on the game for other reasons, but not for that, ever.

Then stop playing, you spend no money but ***** about the grind, so you are the type of player that no one will miss least of all PGI, the door is that away mate.

[Ghogiel]

Sprouticus, on 23 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

On a side note, enjoy your free Cent-AH later today. And my guess is you will get the 2 millioon CB and mechbay too!

CN9 AH on October 21st.

Edited by Ghogiel, 23 September 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Pjwned]

Eric Wulfen, on 23 September 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Then stop playing, you spend no money but ***** about the grind, so you are the type of player that no one will miss least of all PGI, the door is that away mate.

Maybe I don't spend money because of the grind.

[Heffay]

Pjwned, on 23 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Maybe I don't spend money because of the grind.

That is fine, as long as you still play.

The game doesn't need everyone to pay. Just enough people, and it's clear they have that. If you ever change your mind, the game will be more than happy to support whatever level of support you want to give; anywhere from $0.00 to all the dollars.

[MadTulip]

I play games BECAUSE of the the grind. Imagine you get everything up front, mastered and fully equipped and you immediatly have maximum skill level with mouse and aim and such. Is it then worth spending time with it ? No.

If you buy a ferrari it will give you some satisfaction and then you need the next bigger car for the next satisfaction. I believe that satisfaction comes from the delta between rewarding experiences and not from theire absolut level. happyness is not something which you drive to a level by achieving something. you constantly need little things that build you up so that it fluctuates. The fluctuation in it is what makes you happy. So ferraris cant make you more happy then an apple, it is just the comparison of the gain of the ferrari/apple to your known "baseline" or exspectation. The baseline has some properties of personal inflation of the price of thigns that make you happy the more you get/achieve. Some asian religions therefor propose to deny all things you can bind youself to in order to keep the baseline low and feel happy about the apple which is a smart move imo.

grind rewards several achievements distributed over time. those little achievements, although knowing that they have no real worth is what i like while gaming.

Edited by MadTulip, 23 September 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Destructicus]

Pjwned, on 23 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Maybe I don't spend money because of the grind.

but you still get to play
So why must you complain?
You're getting something for nothing
Can't you be happy you have something?
Nope
This is the generation who wants it all for nothing.

Edited by Destructicus, 23 September 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Mothykins]

Eric Wulfen, on 23 September 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Then stop playing, you spend no money but ***** about the grind, so you are the type of player that no one will miss least of all PGI, the door is that away mate.

And then there's me, who's spent money and still thinks the grind is painful. Premium time is a waste for me, I can get two hours a day in, but i have two hero mechs.

Still going to take me three weeks to get a single Summoner. That's pretty steep time investment, where I'm stuck playing two chassis to grind cbills.

Not everyone lives in magical lala land and can play forever with no objectives other than to afford the next mech. There's no advancement other than to grind. Even if i buy a chassis, i still need to buy two more and grind them, or play at a handicap.

You're stuck in double grind central. And this is with money invested in the game. I can only imagine how rage worthy it is for free to play folks.

[-Teiwaz-]

Pjwned, on 23 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Maybe I don't spend money because of the grind.

So let get this right, you do not spend money because of the grind...so you are saying if there was no grind you would then spend money? Why would you need to spend money if the grind was removed? The money is to help reduce the grind. My guess you are under the age of 25. Do you believe that things should just be handed to you because you are here on planet Earth?! Play the game and have fun or don't but stop the complaining!

[Mothykins]

TigersRoar, on 23 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So let get this right, you do not spend money because of the grind...so you are saying if there was no grind you would then spend money? Why would you need to spend money if the grind was removed? The money is to help reduce the grind. My guess you are under the age of 25. Do you believe that things should just be handed to you because you are here on planet Earth?! Play the game and have fun or don't but stop the complaining!

Mate, personal attacks based on someone's estimated age doesn't make you right, it makes you an *******.

You know something? He's been offered this product. Free or not he has the right to complain about an imbalance in the system. And I agree that the grind is out of hand.

You're all sitting here, saying that he must want everything for free, but that's not the case. Games are supposed to have progression, so that would defeat the purpose. It's that the grind is tedious, to the point of being incredibly unfun.

Grow up.

[Ghogiel]

Cavale, on 23 September 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

You know something? He's been offered this product. Free or not he has the right to complain about an imbalance in the system. And I agree that the grind is out of hand.

I agree that he has the right to complain. I disagree about the grind. There just isn't much grind in this game. this weekend I mastered mechs in 20 matches.

[Pjwned]

Sprouticus, on 23 September 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Totally agree with you on the colors. I bought 3 or 4 way back, and then re-bought them when the color setup was changed and we were refunded the money. PGI would be smart to lower those.

and frankly I agree that the grind, especially the CB rewards (more than the XP grind) are bad IMO. You should earn about 75% of the CB required to buy the next mech when leveling a mech IMO. At this point, it is far less.

But it isn't going to change. If I am not going to change their mind as a paying customer, the odds of you doing it are less than zero.

Also, I didnt say you were an entitle whiner. Honestly you have some very valid points. I said the tone of your thread made you come across as an entitled whiner. And that tone ruined any impact your post could have had.


On a side note, enjoy your free Cent-AH later today. And my guess is you will get the 2 millioon CB and mechbay too!

I complain that the grind is excessive so that makes me sound like an entitled whiner (and, according to others, it really is just me being an entitled whiner) despite making it clear that I might spend money for OTHER REASONS (and in fact I already have, albeit grudgingly, as I mentioned just earlier) besides alleviating a worthless, tedious grind that kills the enjoyment of the game.

Why is it that sounds like a load?

[KraftySOT]

Xtrekker, on 22 September 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

I think the system is terribly unimaginative. Getting exactly three mechs and mastering every one of these specific specialties for the bonus...it's just dumb "must have" stuff that gives you no way to customize your experience.

That said, I still think that obtaining these high-end mechs, weapons, and equipment should be limited in some way. It should feel like an accomplishment to finally move up. But I also think that we as "mechwarriors" shouldn't be running around with entire regiments of battlemechs in our pocket. It's a broken two-dimensional theme geared toward collecting shiny stuff and making the upgrade process just frustrating enough to make you consider paying money to get past it. Which is annoying as hell as is the point.

I hate this new "free-to-play" era.

Yeah this^

I went from buying a Hunchie, to buying a K2, rocked the K2 forever, bought a Banshee, sold the others...

Now I have an asston of XP and Cbills, and no desire to master the Banshee (grind for very little return) or buy anything else.

I might buy a Direwhale for the pinpoint poptart lulz, and hope to keep forcing the devs to do something about the pin point damage, or...just keep hoarding XP ill never spend, and Cbills ill never spend.

There was never a reason to touch the lights and mediums ever again. There wasnt a reason to touch them in the first place. If I would have read the forums before buying the Mech I knew had an AC20, id have just gotten the K2 off the bat, and been into the Banshee or DDC that much faster and never bothered with another mech, ever again.

Thats what stops me from spending money really. Theres nothing to spend money on but to support PGI...which I would totally do if they made this more like the TT and less actiony stompy robot game...so theres the two reasons id dropped 100$+ a year...if there was something to spend it on that gave me a real advantage (I already lulzrape people) or if I supported the direction PGI is going (which as of late, I do, but so far its just talk, when theres action, maybe ill buy something big to 'vote with my dollar')

[KraftySOT]

And im not saying make this P2W...I do actually like that there isnt anything else thats attracting my weak morals to drop money on so I can face **** people.

Ideally the game would just be more like the TT and each mech and class had a role to play and peoples urge to get into the biggest and best thing was curbed by the game system. I mean were all only human. If you make the Timberwolf the best mech...its going to be the most predominant. Everyone cant fight the urge to not pwn people all the time. Not to mention you have plenty of people wth the hacker philosophy of...im going to keep abusing this until you fix it, so you fix it faster.

The grind is annoying, so dont do it. Theres plenty of mechs that are way OP and will allow you to have plenty of fun, without mastering them. Theres no reason to 'collect them all'. Buy what works...play that.

[Pjwned]

Heffay, on 23 September 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

That is fine, as long as you still play.

The game doesn't need everyone to pay. Just enough people, and it's clear they have that. If you ever change your mind, the game will be more than happy to support whatever level of support you want to give; anywhere from $0.00 to all the dollars.

Well, it makes me not want to play and directly impacts how often I do play, which is to say I barely play this game at all anymore, so is it suddenly a problem now?

MadTulip, on 23 September 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

I play games BECAUSE of the the grind. Imagine you get everything up front, mastered and fully equipped and you immediatly have maximum skill level with mouse and aim and such. Is it then worth spending time with it ? No.

If you buy a ferrari it will give you some satisfaction and then you need the next bigger car for the next satisfaction. I believe that satisfaction comes from the delta between rewarding experiences and not from theire absolut level. happyness is not something which you drive to a level by achieving something. you constantly need little things that build you up so that it fluctuates. The fluctuation in it is what makes you happy. So ferraris cant make you more happy then an apple, it is just the comparison of the gain of the ferrari/apple to your known "baseline" or exspectation. The baseline has some properties of personal inflation of the price of thigns that make you happy the more you get/achieve. Some asian religions therefor propose to deny all things you can bind youself to in order to keep the baseline low and feel happy about the apple which is a smart move imo.

grind rewards several achievements distributed over time. those little achievements, although knowing that they have no real worth is what i like while gaming.

To me it seems pretty silly if you play games simply to grind, especially in a game competitive by nature, but okay. I'm really trying my best to not act like your way of thinking is wrong because people have fun for different reasons, but it's hard for me to disagree with that any more than I do now. There are many other reasons to play games, and to me grinding is simply a result of playing certain games rather than my reason for playing at all, and excessive grind is the reason I've stopped playing a number of other games before this one.

TigersRoar, on 23 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

So let get this right, you do not spend money because of the grind...so you are saying if there was no grind you would then spend money? Why would you need to spend money if the grind was removed? The money is to help reduce the grind. My guess you are under the age of 25. Do you believe that things should just be handed to you because you are here on planet Earth?! Play the game and have fun or don't but stop the complaining!

It says a lot about how shortsighted you are if you think alleviating grind is the only reason to spend money on this game.

Edited by Pjwned, 23 September 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Until my Banshee cant capture, or cant lock on to people for LRMAGGEDON, or blow up direwolves in a brawl, or insta pop lights....theres no reason to ever buy another mech. Ever. Other than my own personal desire for a mech from the IP I love.

But since I can change my loadouts around to be really whatever mech in the lore I want...theres even less reason to actually buy one.

I was kind of hoping CW would be the reason I bought some mechs...but...apparently there arent any Faction Mechs, so im just gonna keep on keeping on with the Banshee.

[Pjwned]

KraftySOT, on 23 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

And im not saying make this P2W...I do actually like that there isnt anything else thats attracting my weak morals to drop money on so I can face **** people.

Ideally the game would just be more like the TT and each mech and class had a role to play and peoples urge to get into the biggest and best thing was curbed by the game system. I mean were all only human. If you make the Timberwolf the best mech...its going to be the most predominant. Everyone cant fight the urge to not pwn people all the time. Not to mention you have plenty of people wth the hacker philosophy of...im going to keep abusing this until you fix it, so you fix it faster.

The grind is annoying, so dont do it. Theres plenty of mechs that are way OP and will allow you to have plenty of fun, without mastering them. Theres no reason to 'collect them all'. Buy what works...play that.

I'm not even really trying to "collect them all" though, I just wanted to expand my mech selection to have some worthwhile heavy mechs (instead of none) and found that it was a no-fun hassle due to the grinding. I'm not even that motivated to master my mechs either, but that's simply because it's an even greater hassle to do so and doesn't provide the most spectacular benefit, although if for example I wanted to have advanced zoom and advanced sensor range on a sniper build then I would be forced to deal with the even bigger grinding hassle to work at it.

[KraftySOT]

Pjwned, on 23 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'm not even really trying to "collect them all" though, I just wanted to expand my mech selection to have some worthwhile heavy mechs (instead of none) and found that it was a no-fun hassle due to the grinding. I'm not even that motivated to master my mechs either, but that's simply because it's an even greater hassle to do so and doesn't provide the most spectacular benefit, although if for example I wanted to have advanced zoom and advanced sensor range on a sniper build then I would be forced to deal with the even bigger grinding hassle to work at it.

Yeah I thought about the adv zoom sensor combo...but its just not worth it. I can do the same thing without it, it just takes a tad more patience.

And yeah I bought the K2 to have a nice option between FLD and lasers..the hit boxes arent great, and that almost got me to buy another mech...but meh, I ended up just changing my play style a little and achieved the same thing without the hassle of grinding or fighting with the UI.

And I just dont see another option for a mech Id want other than an LRM boat...which seems to be the Treb...so theres still only one option really, and I couldnt ever forsee myself grinding out the variants to master it.

[Sadist Cain]

Can't say I find the grind all that bad, adds value imo. There's still mech chassis out there I havn't tried that interest me, quite happy toiling away with what I have though...

DasaDevil, on 22 September 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

a good clan helps with the grind

***Faction

Ye tank bred scum


I'm still learning the lore... I *think* that's an appropriate insult

[Remarius]

aniviron, on 22 September 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Not true at all. Off the top of my head, Path of Exile and Spiral Knights both have no grind; both have leveling systems, and neither can be sped up by paying, either.

Two awful games.

[Bront]

Nauht, on 22 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

You need, what, 15k XP total for the basics which then allows you to elite and master your favourite variant. You don't even have to touch the other two variants past basic.

You call that a grind? Especially with the double XP weekend?

Sheesh.

14,500 for basics
21,500 for elites
21,500 for master