192 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Now I remember why I hate building new mechs in this game, and in a game like this where customization is such a big deal that doesn't seem like a good sign. Due to the way the mech tree works I grind out matches for several hours so that I can play one mech variant optimally (excluding an additional module slot from mastering it) and then after all is said & done I don't even feel like playing because it was such an annoying hassle, especially at the end. This is also on top of spending a huge amount of c-bills (which took a while to build up) for overpriced heavy mechs and several million more c-bills on top of that for some new weapon modules, and now I don't have enough c-bills to get another set of mech variants beyond 40 tons unless I want to pay real money (LOL no) or grind even more just to have the "privilege" of MORE GRINDING.

The grinding nonsense in this game is and has been killing my enjoyment greatly and it overshadows pretty much every improvement I can think of since I started playing, especially now that weapon modules add even more grind since there's no reason to not take them unless you want to deliberately have a sub-optimal mech in a competitive mech shooter game.

Before anybody suggests buying premium time or hero mechs or whatever else then that's not happening because I'm not going to spend money to alleviate a worthless, crappy grindfest; I might possibly spend money on the game for other reasons, but not for that, ever.

The grind in MWO is a good deal less than most other pvp games I play/ed Wot Woplanes, warthunder, just the xp go to making three mechs better, not an endless supply of biger grindier tanks or planes.

[KraftySOT]

And I totally see why this is a love/hate (usually at the same time) game for so many people.

You drop a ton of money...have a ton of mechs...and really only a few of them are anything but chrome. (that is to say, not quite as good so you drive them out of flavor, and enjoyment, not out of trying to win per say) Then you have all these mechs and variants and such that hold various levels of attraction for you...and getting them, isnt making you any better or making you more cbills...its just filling out a collection for your own personal amusement.

The quirks might help. I hope theyre more creative than just, more armor, more ammo, more internal, faster twist...

But nothing solves the fact that you come into the game, can hop into a trial Atlas...stomp around until you can buy a Heavy or Assault Meta-build...and then EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME, is a step down in effectiveness.

Its not like after a year youre more powerful than you were on the day you bought your first 'Meta-Mech'. You done passed up lights a long time ago.

This game might have (its to late now) benefitted from something like WoT's tier system, which had everyone going through the crappy stuff, to get to the best stuff.

The whales just by passed that...they got straight to the best stuff, but didnt have anyone to play with but each other, until the rest of the community caught up.

[Aurrous]

If only we have mech warriors to level, and not mech frames.. What do you mean there are no mechwarriors in mechwarriors on line..

[KraftySOT]

And if youre getting BETTER its not a grind you know.

WoTs and such, the grind comes from all the missions inbetween upgrades. Which doesnt really start to kick in for a while. For a new player there is no grind. You come in at the worst possible effectiveness, and generally every mission you actually finish, dead or alive, youre getting 0.001% better, until you start hitting games where you didnt earn enough to upgrade anything.

Its quite possible MWO shot itself in the foot by not having a tier like system, where lights fight lights, and bad mediums, and mediums fight mediums and bad heavies, maybe a great light, and heavies fight heavies, great mediums, and bad assaults, and the guys in the Dire whales are sitting in que because other than the whales, no one paid that much money to skip the "grind"

It seemed important tho for PGI not to do that...to them at least. Im not saying its bad. Its cool having everything on the battlefield...but theres a reason War thunder and World of Tank do that.

So the King Tiger isnt blowing up M3 Stuarts.

Theres still the "role warfare" within each tier...and really that exists in MWO as well...each role is in weight class.

Edited by KraftySOT, 23 September 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Sergeant Random]

Aha. I understand it now - it Feels like so much effort, but the game only marginally Rewards me with stuff and advantages. It rubs people in different ways!

Guys, we have to thank PGI that mastering mechs/grinding only gives marginal advantages. A few percentage points here and there... The playing field was designed to be rather level - why?

Because if there was a great deal of advantage to be had by mastering a mech, the whales would get there sooner and the free to play system would collapse on itself. You master a mech, put in about 55k XP into it, fill it up with modules, and you can't really go further.

The real progression in the game is learning how to use the weapons, how to counter them, learning the maps, learning to maneuver, & exploring the intricacies of the mechlab to get those marginal advantages. People say it's skill based and not pay to win.

See it for what it is, and try to have fun along the way.

o7

[Mothykins]

Sergeant Random, on 23 September 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

Aha. I understand it now - it Feels like so much effort, but the game only marginally Rewards me with stuff and advantages. It rubs people in different ways!

Guys, we have to thank PGI that mastering mechs/grinding only gives marginal advantages. A few percentage points here and there... The playing field was designed to be rather level - why?

Because if there was a great deal of advantage to be had by mastering a mech, the whales would get there sooner and the free to play system would collapse on itself. You master a mech, put in about 55k XP into it, fill it up with modules, and you can't really go further.

The real progression in the game is learning how to use the weapons, how to counter them, learning the maps, learning to maneuver, & exploring the intricacies of the mechlab to get those marginal advantages. People say it's skill based and not pay to win.

See it for what it is, and try to have fun along the way.

o7

... a 15% increase to cooling? 20% Increase in Turn Speed? 45% increase in Acceleration? 50% increase in braking? 40% Increase in torso twist speed, as well as 20% increase in twist range?

That's marginal? A Massive increase in the ability to maneuver around the map is marginal? The ability to twist and aim 40% faster is Marginal? Are you out of your tree? Like, are you 100% off your rocker?

Let me just marginally dock your pay, I'm sure you won't miss 20% of your income, right? That's a fifth, by the way. But it's just a marginal percent. Hardly makes any difference. I mean, $400 is pretty much exactly the same as $500, right?

No, you really need to elite Mechs, the disadvantage of not is really apparent.


As for the Whales, most of them just do a mass EXP to GXP convert from whatever chassis they've been using the most, and instantly unlock every chassis to elite. Anyone willing to spend large amounts of cash can and will get ahead; this is fine, this is paying for convenience. I've done it a few times, though pretty sparingly; a lot of fun can be had trying to make things work (Single Heatsink Centurions, All Laser Stalkers) But that's not the issue for me (Which quite a few people seem to not understand.) I've paid for 'Mechs, yes, but they're ones that are pay only. They're ones that, after playing the normal variants, I wanted to get (With the exception of the Locust. I just wanted it.) I love the heck out of my K2, so when the Jester rolled in, I was pretty much the happiest person on the forum. Hell, even it's stock colours where perfect for me (Literally my favorite colours.) So I bought it pretty much right after it was released.

But the other Heros? I've never played those chassis. I'd be willing to throw down for some if I'd played the standard chassis (I'm actually thinking about getting Huggin, It looks fun) But in order for me to get to that point, I need to spend about a month or two to get the two chassis I'd need to elite, because I have limited play time. Lots of people have really limited play time, between work, school and other commitments. It's around 50 hours on average for me, in a Hero mech, with no consumable use, to unlock a single Direwolf, the highest costing chassis atm. I can maaaybe squeeze in two hours a day. Do the math.

It's not even a thing of "Play better" either; For the amount of time I can spend, I'm playing fairly well, and have lead a fair share of PUG groups to victory. I Have a higher than one Win/loss with most of my owned Mechs and A greater than one KDR with a Locust 1V.

Yes, I get that we need to have an incentive to pay. But I HAVE paid, and I'm still hitting a wall. I'd have bought more, but the cost is too high to risk on a 'Mech I might hate, and the time to get a new 'Mech to test it out is out of hand plus then I still need to grind to earn the full unlock. Nevermind the fact that the return for selling a chassis is pretty rough. You lose 60-70% of the 'mech value, more or less.

I don't want Instant gratification. I just want to be rewarded for my effort.

The one fellow who's been relentless on this forum, and calling everyone self entitled whiners will never get it, because all he can see is that he paid, and so should we. He most likely hasn't experienced the full brunt of the grind, because he most likely just pays for Premium time and Mech chassis he wants; heck, he spent how much on the Clans? It doesn't matter to him, because he already bought enough 'Mechs to keep him occupied for the next six months, so when those six months are up, he'll have a nice tidy pool of C-bills. It's never a grind for someone like him. He's got a supply of chassis. He'll never get it.

Even at 20 hours for most Inner-sphere assaults, it's pushing it. You are literally playing with no real advancement for 20 hours to get a digital item worth around $10. Would you want to do that? Would you want to spend $10 on a chassis you don't want just to elite the one you DO? There's not even a random drop chance in this game, or some sort of bigger picture to take the edge off. It's stale. I hope community warfare fixes this, but I'm not holding my breath.

See, the thing is, right now there's nothing other than 'Mechs to hold your attention. When you get tired of running the same 'Mech over and over, you want something new. And when that something new doesn't live up to your hopes, and you realize it'll be almost a month before you can try something newer still..?

[Sergeant Random]

I guess I should reevaluate my meaning of "marginal" - sorry.

One of the points i was driving at was that there is a limit to the advantage. You dont get into situations like in WOW where 2 characters can have a 50+ level gap.

Grinding only gets you so much. (And maybe even paying)

The advantages becomes most magnified in a duel. But 3 basic mechs will still gank 1 mastered one. Teamwork and situational awareness is still important. (Marginal enough yet?)

Whales only get more options (mech choice) and get them faster.
A free2player that does his homework and specializes in a few chassis will still have statistically the same odds in a 12v12. (So it seems I don't really disagree with the fellow - we just feel differently about it)

There is no dishonor in walking if you walk proudly.

I started out as a f2player - I bought and mastered shadowhawks the hard way. I started really spending one time the Ilya went on sale. Then there was a 50% MC sale so I bought gobs. From there I just tended to use MC for mechs and cbills for upgrades. PGI designed it this way it seems. It will feel unfair and I am absolutely guilty of being a whale.

By the way I never bought premium time (but I still have 20days of the bonus from Wave 1).

Look dude, if you could afford Wave 1, and if you could play 2hrs per day, and you did the math - you would have pre-ordered too. --Ok so maybe not. But I didn't buy into the game to specifically make you feel bad.

There IS one disadvantage to having so many mechs. You don't really have the time to use them all. So yes, they're just luxury - a waste for some people.

GL HF
o7

Edited by Sergeant Random, 24 September 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[Dirty Bird 1]

So this is really a Wallet Warriors game then is that what your really saying ?

You know i remember when they started developing this into what it is. I couldn't wait to play it, waited years. Then it came along and I have been playing it. except for about a 2 months then I'm back. ( I'm and admin on a couple of other game servers and TS's.) What a surprise I had.

I've been gaming since the 80's and playing Mech Warriors since the 90's even remember when this was a board game and by the way (... this IS a Massive Grind Game ) and the Heat problem is making it unplayable for me. I don't mind supporting a well balanced game. I'm a Beta tester and Modder of Games Long Term. And I really love this game.

I have a Jegger Mech still outfitted like I bought it, have used all the xp I earned on it to try and improve its heat problems, There is no room for changes or major heat fix's on that Mech. Because of the heat problems today I shoot my AC's and hit my Pulse Lasers once and went into overheat and blew up. The heat by the way should not be damaging the engine it should be damaging the weapons and the arms it's attached to. not blowing the Mech up. Very Unrealistic. ( I'm and engineer by trade ) Guess I could strip it and carry flowers into battle. I paid 9 Mill for it, the resale value is about a little over a Mill. so not worth selling those are junk yard prices. The store doesn't give any spec's on the mechs you buy. pricing is not balanced either between the MC customer and the average gamer.

On every map it starts with a percentage of heat, On some I fire my weps once and the heat doesn't come all the way back down, that's a glitch or intentional ( And by the way the manifold map is in a cold vacuum, heat problems should be minimal ) That's a real problem, my friend with the game, had no problem before the patch when this was added. they should have already fixed it by now. Gamers are leaving. go read the forums, I have even some of my friends have left already, and they are the Paying kind of gamers to. They won't be back, to bad to they are really good people and good gamers like team work. Which seems to be lacking in most battles I've been in.

I have about 10,000,000 C-Bills to buy the Nova cat with, just so I can strip it. ( By the way that's 250 missions to make that 10 Mill ) Then noticed it's only a Laser Boat, no other hard points. In the original game it had other hard points. So all I hear on this being a lore type of game is just Bull to.

They don't fix it I'll leave to. I won't put down money on a game no matter how much I love it, ( I don't mind supporting good games ) if it becomes unplayable for me. Or is going to become just another Wallet warriors game. Then it becomes unenjoyable I have the single player and every expansion, they are very well balanced compared to this. Even the Mrs. who games with me, won't touch this one, after she watched todays results. That's really sad to she's a good gamer and loves a good fight hehehe I should know.

The Dev's can take my Mech and test it out themselves. it has 2 AC 2s and 2 AC 5s Heat does a rapid spike and takes forever to come down. ( Ballistics shouldn't heat up like that ) maybe it's some coding with my player file causing some of the problem. And by the way, in the original game the Alpha Shot was a Last Ditch Shot play the training Tuts in the original game, They even tell you that. So I don't use it if possible myself. And don't like chaining my weps either. and don't use macros. I'm old school. Well had my say good luck on the field

Yellow Eagle / Dirty Bird

[Anarcho]

Holy ****... really... the level of whining among mechwarriors is too dam high! Lol
Really? You are complaining because you have to play a game? If its getting boring I think its time for you to find sonething else to do man... I heard masturbation helps to relax...

What you call "grind" I call having fun. Its not like ur in a dungeon killing IA rats, every match is a different situation...
Also, grinding gives the game some purpose while CW isnt here yet.

Jump on a trial mech if you dont have other mechs to pilot, go watch a movie (I heard the super mario bros movie is really good) or just turn the pc off and go do something else, this is a game, not a paid job (unless you are a dev.)

[Hades Trooper]

i hardly notice the xp and c-bills.

i grab a beer and bong. jump in game and teamspeak with some buddies, few hours go by with laughs and tears and i leave group and i'm richer and got lots of GXP.

So whats all this grind hassle? Learn to enjoy the game or i can suggest playing a few other games so it's doesn't become a grind for you and always fresh

[TexAce]

1. Play to have fun, not to gain XP/GXP

2. Choose your mech wisely, I only play mechs which have at least 2-3 nice different variants. And guess what, except the Treb I still have all 3 variants of all mechs I played and they are all equipped completely different, so I have fun in all of them.

[Sprouticus]

KraftySOT, on 23 September 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

But you did all this, for marginal gain.

Simply not worth it to me. Im glad its worth it to you. Sure I could dump all that XP and blow through some variants, but...why?

20 more meters isnt hurting me, nor is the lack of something other than advanced zoom. Theres just no good reason to master any mech, or buy any mech other than the one I already like, and is meta-acceptable. Certainly not 99 reasons. I can think of dozens of better ways to spend 100 dollars.

What would I spend 100 dollars on? Some sort of crowd funding, I dont even need a thank you mech for it, or more mech bays, to figure out the heat/pinpoint damage/lrm/active and passive radar...

Then at that point, the meta might change and all of a sudden theres a reason to own a Stormcrow, or a Jenner, or maybe even master one. At the moment, theyre nice to lulz the pug games where the whales get seperated and you can pick them off, but anyone at a high level just roflcopters at you. You have to have the CT armor to survive, and the good mounts, and the decent speed, and at least be reasonably happy lore wise, with what youve got.

Nothing is drawing me to spend 100 dollars to blast through all the Thunderbolt variants and make a Thud, or all the Jenner variants and master a little srm or laser machine. They just dont provide that kind of benefit.

And I dont think grinding in this game even gives you that much of an advantage.

If I knew then what I know now, id never have spent a cbill on anything but a Stalker, until the Direwhale went Cbill. That cant take more than 20 hours with the cbill infusion and nailing all the achievements for the first time.

I hear you, and that is fine for you.

But for folks who are complaining that they dont want to level the 2nd and 3rd variants of a mech because they don't like them, my post is on point.


This thread is about people not wanting to spend $$ to reduce time spent leveling mechs. I was just showing those folks that a modest investment can reap very good rewards.


As for what I got out of it....well I have every clan mech mastered (well I have not yet done the maddogs, but Ill finish those this week). That means I am uber flexible for my unit in CW and other competitive play. That is as important as anything else IMO.

[Deathlike]

I get the OP's main point, but with respect to XP, XP is not hard to get... it's just painful if you suck or if the variant is atrocious (hello Spider-5V).

The C-bill grind is a lot more painful... especially if you plan on getting an XL engine.

The only way to "work around" the XP grind is to get better. However I don't think that's the problem...

The way to "deal" with the grinding aspect (C-bills primarily) is to get friends, join a clan, and buy into having fun... as much as you can. I have my shame badge enabled, showing that it's taken a really long while before I had to buy in (well, outside of needing more funds) to trying to "work around" said grind. I'm kinda hoping by the end of the year that I'd have almost half a dozen C-bill gaining mechs (well, 2 from the gifts, 2 that I will purchase whenever a 50% hero sale comes for said mechs, and maybe 1 more mechpak). I've accumulated a lot of c-bills, but those will be quickly drained once the Stormcrow and Timberwolf are available for C-bills...

The only real way to survive it... as I've said before is really community... because the state of a "stale game" can only do so much for one's interest. I don't know how you feel about the game outside of the grind... but only when you don't feel the game is a grind (when it is for the depressed C-bill economy) is when the C-bills flow in. I do try playing in the Tournies for that reason alone (even if I don't get the prize), I collect lots of C-bills through success and getting better over time... but it doesn't replace the reality that this game needs something to do besides the grinding...