90 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok this is a subject near and dear to my heart.

I love JJs. I used to love them so much that I spent hour in the training ground actually practicing so I would be very skilled in their use. I also didn't use them to poptart or Jump Snipe, rather I used the to flank and attack from unexpected angles.

However, now JJs don't work worth a damn and I have even taken to stripping them off my jump capable mechs. Also I now have two worthless mechs I paid MC for. The Heavy Metal which I bought SPECIFICALLY because it was a 90 Assault that mounted 5 JJs and offered damn near the jump mobility of a medium mech and the Dragon Slayer which I bought for much of the same reason. With JJs as they are now, they are just a waste of space to me. 12,750 MC down the drain.

Also this applies to my C-bill jump capable mechs. I don't enjoy playing them any more. I have either sold most of them off or they end up just sitting taking up a bay slot in hopes the one day the Devs will either revert or revamp JJs to make them useful for actually jumping again.

Lasty, I am still confused why there was such a drastic change. No one was complaining about anything except the fact that only 1-2 JJs were too useful. Not one person complained that 5-6 were too useful as they were. It was basically a non-issue that had no relevance on the balance of the game rather the change just made them bad for almost no reason what so ever.

So this is an appeal. Can you the Devs please investigate JJ mechanics again. If you don't feel they can be reverted to the original state, how about looking into a revamp. How about enhancing the mobility at the expense of recharge speed. Make it so a mech mounting 5-6 JJ can have very good height and maybe even vector them a bit but also make it so they can only jump once every 30-45 seconds. Basically I just want to be able to use them as a mobility tool like you claim you want them to be and use them to actually jump over hills, cliffs, ridges and building, rather then power jet into the side of a cliff and face scrap up to the top, maybe if I am lucky.

[FupDup]

They should take notes from MWLL's jets:






Obviously, we don't need to copy the exact values to the letter...but the overall idea is the same. Jets that give you a quick, powerful boost that keeps you exposed in the air for a brief time. And, with the ability to cover horizontal distance rather than just vertical.

Easier to balance against poptarts because they'd have a harder time timing their jumps to avoid exposure (would be easy to "overshoot" the jump) and thus they'd be more vulnerable. It also would be a completely BADASS repositioning tool for brawlers/flankers, or for people trying to retreat from those mechs. And, most importantly of all, they'd make you feel AWESOME while you were using them.

[VtTimber]

Absolutely, +1

I hate using jump jets right now. They really really feel worthless. PGI, please take a look at jumpjets and make them worth taking again.

I advocate that mechs with jump jets by default MUST take the default number always. This way they have to pay for hopefully new awesome mobility with reduced weight for armor/weapons.

The people who started using 1 jumpjet, 2 jumpjets are the ones that created this whole mess. Just remove that option and make them really great.

Edited by VtTimber, 23 September 2014 - 04:48 AM.

[Viges]

I liked jj because they gave you a huge advantage. And its is bad game balance wise. So no, they are fine now, lights still can jump long enough, poptarting is hard as it should be, and no jj mechs have a chance. And jj still give you enough of advantage (well maybe assault's jj are a little bit overnerfed, maybe they need to give more thrust when using several of them).

[Naduk]

i use jump jets a lot
i think they are in a very good place right now
no longer do we see excessive jump sniping , but lots of getting around
lights seem almost unaffected
mediums still get around with ease and my griffons enjoy poping over ridges and throwing ppcs around
heavies and assaults finally are paying for their weight

the biggest thing about the current jump jets is that you must now choose
do you take bigger jumps or more weapons
better use of your JJ or more armor
max jj load or a larger engine

ya know normal mech choices that are now things you MUST decide on
things that nonJJ mechs have been dealing with forever
now JJ mechs must decide and cannot just default to 1 jump jet and have it be enough for every situation

consider how jump jets used to behave
it was the equivalent to 1 single heat sink keeping your mech cool with no need for extras ... ever

[Kiiyor]

I'm about to be controversial, but I like the change, especially for heavier mechs.

Lights I think could use a boost, but i'm stupendously happy that poptarting now appears to be just one tactic in a mechwarrior's arsenal, instead of a single tactic to base entire builds and games around.

I still see many competitive players using them, especially in TWolves and the like. I also still see poptarts, but no longer are they a whack-a-mole blight on the horizon behind the crashed dropship on frozen. No longer do they flit from boulder to boulder around the crater at caustic like ballerinas. No longer do you see what appears to be an entire team of giant killer robots on trampolines behind cover.

I think lateral movement could be boosted, so they could be used to better effect on brawlers, but the vertical limits are nice, IMHO.

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

Is mediums could really use the old JJs back. In fact even the nova could use the old JJ behavior, considering the state the clan laser nerfs have left it in.

Really wish they'd allow the previous style of JJs to remain for lights and mediums.

It is undeniable that the JJ nerf did reduce the number of assault poptarts. Though the cumulative effect of, restrictions placed on gauss+ppc behavior + chassis movement restrictions + JJ nerf. Its like someone was trying to kill the most popular mechs so they would purchase the new....

In the end please allow pre-nerf JJ behavior for lights and mediums(IS mediums especially). Abuse or careless use of this would be its own "nerf" with fall damage.

[Impyrium]

I'm stuck between keeping them as they are and making a change. On one hand, I'm perfectly happy with the way they are now due to the very reasons others have stated above. However, I do know it was a lot more fun when they were more powerful. As long as they keep them balanced, and make sure firing from jumping isn't really viable, I'm happy with either option.

[Dawnstealer]

FupDup, on 22 September 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

They should take notes from MWLL's jets:






Obviously, we don't need to copy the exact values to the letter...but the overall idea is the same. Jets that give you a quick, powerful boost that keeps you exposed in the air for a brief time. And, with the ability to cover horizontal distance rather than just vertical.

Easier to balance against poptarts because they'd have a harder time timing their jumps to avoid exposure (would be easy to "overshoot" the jump) and thus they'd be more vulnerable. It also would be a completely BADASS repositioning tool for brawlers/flankers, or for people trying to retreat from those mechs. And, most importantly of all, they'd make you feel AWESOME while you were using them.

Really, having never played that mod, it does look like they got jump jets "right" (ie. how I envisioned them). Just fast "pops" that get you very quickly from one spot to another. Maybe lock the arms while jumping? Continue reticle shake through the entire jump? I don't want to return to the horrid poptart days, but JJs don't really work now.

[Reitrix]

I wouldnt mind seeing JJs get a buff that allows the power of the jets to scale based on velocity.

Basically, start the strength of the JJs while at 0kph as they are now, discouraging their use for poptarting just as they do now.
From there, improve the forward thrust on a scale based on how fast the 'Mech is moving.
That would allow a Spider with a full suite of Jets to launch itself the full rated distance of its jets, But those same jets would be laughable in a poptart situation.
Additionally, remove the ability to twist/turn in midair altogether unless under Thrust.

I feel like that would let the brawling Victor be as agile as it used to be, but only under full acceleration, with the added requirement that you can't simply full burn into the air and expect to twist and turn like we do now.

[Roland]

The current JJ mechanics are not particularly fun, and they do not grant the mobility that they really should.

I would much rather have them reinstitute the shake throughout the entire jump to reduce their utility for jumpsniping, and buff their actual jumping capability back to prior levels so that they are more useful for actually jumping.

[kapusta11]

If JJ somehow become useful everyone will start whining that their chassis without JJs are worse, then chassis with JJs will get nerfed, but when you strip JJs off they'll become worse that those without them... oh wait.

Edited by kapusta11, 23 September 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Right now JJ absolutely have no right to be called Jump Jets. It's Slowly and Painfully Climb 3 Meters Up Jets. Heavies can't jump over some small stones sometimes.
The very mechanics feels totally wrong and unsatisfying. Poor clan mechs that have JJs fixed, poor Summoner.

I like the idea of JJ used in Living Legends. JJ should give you a powerful thrust, that you mostly aim first and once in the air you have limited control over it, so it's sort of predictable. But it's definitely a jump. Something worth spending tonnage on.

In MWO JJs were not totally alright even before the nerf, imho, but still fairly ok. Agree with the idea to force the screenshake, but give jumps back.

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 23 September 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Give JJ's on heavies and assaults more boost.

Give every mech at least a minimum of 5 JJ's as availability. seriously mechs capped with a maximum of 3 is like you try to fly by farting.

any mech with 5 JJ's equipped should be able to at least exit the canyon with one jump.

but people only using 3 or less JJ's should at maxim be bae to cross smaller obstacles but not really jump around. There must be an intention to put a proper JJ amount on your mech.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

As someone who played a mix of jumpjet and non-jumpjet mechs since the change, I found that the jump jet changes had very little impact on the mobility of my mechs. I have been able to use to to climb and descend ledges safely and jump across ravines, frequently (as found in Network Canyon). It seems like as long as they are used for their intended purpose, they work very well, and provide a significant mobility benefit over my non-jumping mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Sorry, but just as with Wub, we aren't allowed to have fun.

HoverJets™ are Working as Intended™.

[Kassatsu]

Much like the CERLL nerf, I've removed them from every mech capable of removing them and replaced them with more useful things.

JJs = more heat sinks, ammo, heck even weapons

CERLL = CLPL - losing a few heat sinks, ammo or whatever was worth it on every mech I did that on, just like losing the "jump" jets

[WarHippy]

They desperately need to be redone. They are junk on heavies and assaults, mixed bag on mediums, and mostly fine on lights. There is very little reason to ever equip them on anything larger than a medium, and even then the enjoyment factor has been pretty tarnished.

[Vidarok]

Maybe we can let certain mechs excel with jump jets using some new mech quirks?

[Lord Perversor]

What we need imho is a exponential JJ thrust and a pseudo Juke ability.

Each JJ provide a fixed ammount of thrust but the more you mount the more benefit you get like extra thrust or duration so ppl wishing to use them for manuvers will do it without issues and poptarters will need to sacrificate weigth for more JJ

The Juke mind of ability it's just a short/ intense dash in a direction while in mid air allowng daring maneuvers at the cost of a sudden increase in heat ( in order to make it a tactical choice)

Just a couple of ideas