90 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 22 September 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

lol you can see me go toe to toe with a Thanatos in an Uller first time I played the game.

Got pwnt in the end though. Hope that wasn't on huntress, capper legging *****.

Edited by Ghogiel, 23 September 2014 - 07:43 AM.

[Blakkstar]

The problem is this weird mechanic where you can pick and choose how jumpy your mech gets to be. JJ are supposed to be matched to mech "walking" speed, with a weight proportional to mech class. You have JJ, or you don't. The weight of the JJ is the primary balancing mechanic, along with a serious to-hit modifier no matter how much distance you end up traversing.

Jump jets in MWO are wrong by TT standards, and they feel wrong in video-game-land. They are a legitimate candidate for re-balancing, if not a total overhaul of the game mechanic.

[mindwarp]

I find JJ useful in their current state. Add a huge amount of mobility to mediums and help you get around. Sure you can't poptart. but you can turn fast (which was what JJ were used for mostly in tabletop) and clear low obstacles no problem. Poptarting was just a pathetic tactic.

[WarHippy]

Vidarok, on 23 September 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Maybe we can let certain mechs excel with jump jets using some new mech quirks?

So every mech with JJ, or are you suggesting that some should just have really crappy versions while others get the good ones? Sorry, but mech quirks is not the way to go when it is JJ themselves that need to be reworked.

[TLBFestus]

If they do something with them again, I'm in favor of increasing the horizontal vector, and they could increase their thrust by 10-30%, possibly in increments over several patches to find the sweet spot.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Rubbish JJs pretty much kill the Summoner. Can't jump for toffee, but can't remove the jets either.

Summoner is sad.

[Maggiman]

I'd love to see jjs being useful for combat maneuvering again..but
people tend to minmax a lot in this game.
Buff jjs and as soon as you hit a certain threshold you get a crapload of poptarts.
I believe there is no easy way out if this (Apart from making poptarting or jjs almost useless, which is the pgi way to do it).

Maybe making the jumps more coarse grained like you get one tap per installed jj with a big cooldown and a good rising speed..
(Also means getting some real leg damage if you don't have a tap left to buffer your descend. .

[D04S02B04]

There's an easy solution. Revert JJ nerfs and increase map size, increase weapons ranged.

As a poptart, you can hit reliably up to 400m with your PPC and AC. Scoring hits beyond that at 600m+ takes skill. If ranges in this game are scaled up by 50% - 100%, you'll start finding this a lot more like a mech simulator and a lot more tactical.

You have your scouts to run around, you don't feel the need to constantly deathball and there's a point to staggering your formation for overlapping fire. I've always felt that the range which the clans can fight at, should be the starting default range.

[Maggiman]

Greater Maps with a higher firing range would be awesome and solve more than one problem I guess..(Regions with good Hillcover could be circumvented with the warning there be poptarts =D)

But we won't get it. Balancing like that involves a lot of decisions and with greater Maps we loose heightmap resolution due to the way the engine works.

Love that Sig btw. . Its pretty much what I thought about UI 2.0

[stjobe]

Reticule shake throughout the whole jump will fix poptarting while not overly adversely affecting jumping brawlers (due to the shorter ranges brawling happen at).

So really, the poptarting boogeyman shouldn't be allowed to stop a (very much needed) full redesign of the jump jet mechanic.

[aleksandrGRC]

fast jumps, very bright. drains jj fast, long recharge. covers appropriate distance.

[aleksandrGRC]

make mechs have arm possitions. you can choose to lock your actuators up and aim like a jaggermech for better hull down vs poptarts.
make more annoying ways to piss people off. not less.

people will always hate something , eventually you have a shell of a game if you keep taking stuff or nerfing it.

[Mechteric]

Ghogiel, on 23 September 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

lol you can see me go toe to toe with a Thanatos in an Uller first time I played the game.

Got pwnt in the end though. Hope that wasn't on huntress, capper legging *****.

LOL though I spent way more time trying to leg you than if I had just shot your CT (and look how damaged I was by the end!). Though it was worth it to see your legless body float to the top of the water

This part where I jumped clear over your Uller is exactly what MWO needs to make jump jets fun for brawling.


Also, where I jumped over the Awesome that ambushed me in the repair bay, was Awesome .

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 23 September 2014 - 09:55 AM.

[Ashnod]

Please for the love of god fix the abomination of fail that is jump jets

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 23 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

The current JJ mechanics are not particularly fun, and they do not grant the mobility that they really should.

I would much rather have them reinstitute the shake throughout the entire jump to reduce their utility for jumpsniping, and buff their actual jumping capability back to prior levels so that they are more useful for actually jumping.

Didn't we have the shake toned down cause players were complaining about getting motion sick? I mean I don't see a problem If it happened to me I would just go with Non Jumping Builds.

[DustySkunk]

D04S02B04, on 23 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

There's an easy solution. Revert JJ nerfs and increase map size, increase weapons ranged.

As a poptart, you can hit reliably up to 400m with your PPC and AC. Scoring hits beyond that at 600m+ takes skill. If ranges in this game are scaled up by 50% - 100%, you'll start finding this a lot more like a mech simulator and a lot more tactical.

You have your scouts to run around, you don't feel the need to constantly deathball and there's a point to staggering your formation for overlapping fire. I've always felt that the range which the clans can fight at, should be the starting default range.

Maggiman, on 23 September 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Greater Maps with a higher firing range would be awesome and solve more than one problem I guess..(Regions with good Hillcover could be circumvented with the warning there be poptarts =D)

But we won't get it. Balancing like that involves a lot of decisions and with greater Maps we loose heightmap resolution due to the way the engine works.

Love that Sig btw. . Its pretty much what I thought about UI 2.0

My only concern with a return to larger weapon ranges is the return of SniperWarrior^tm

Weapon ranges at the moment allow for the long range game to be played but don't discourage brawler builds. It wasn't that long ago when if you poked your head around cover you were getting blasted by five guys with PPC/Gauss Rifle/ERLL from clear across the map. Doing measurable damage at nearly 1.5 kilometers can be ridiculous when taken to an extreme and most other weapons fall in the neighborhood of <500m. On Forest Colony, you could almost shoot each other from each team's respective spawns. Games could quite easily be finished with no brawls happening at all. I feel that this is against the spirit of the game, which should encourage mixed builds as well as multiple paths to victory.

At the moment, I'm mostly happy with the weapon balancing (clan lasers being the exception). JJs on the other hand could use a boost as long as it doesn't encourage a return to the poptart meta. With the recent-ish weapon changes, I can see this being feasible.

Edited by DustySkunk, 23 September 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Ultimax]

Step 1) Revisit Terrain code so life is not awful for non-JJ mechs.
Step 2) Revisit JJs so they actually provide thrust and mobility benefits.
Step 3) Institute "reticule sway" when falling. Grant positive & negative quirks to mechs to increase or reduce sway creating niches.

[Xyroc]

Naduk, on 23 September 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

lights seem almost unaffected

*Seems* but does not feel like it if you actually pilot one.

[Wolfways]

I like JJ's as they are now, but feel that they could do with a little longer burn time. At least jumping mechs feel heavier now instead of all being rubber balls.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 September 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

Didn't we have the shake toned down cause players were complaining about getting motion sick? I mean I don't see a problem If it happened to me I would just go with Non Jumping Builds.

That was because they shook the whole screen AND the reticule, when just shaking the reticule would have been enough. Nobody gets motion sick from a reticule that's jumping around, but the aiming effect is still there. The whole-screen shake, while immersive and nice that way, isn't needed from the point of view of limiting pop-tart effectiveness.