481 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

There is an easy fix for you. Get on the large free TS servers like NGNG. Most nights there are several random groups of 2-12 players. Get in these groups. A nice 5 or 6 man group works well. Doing this will let you meet a lot of new people. It will mix skill level of the group so you have more wins. And its just more fun.

Server: voip01.n1585.hypernia.net:9992
Password: mechwarrior

[Aym]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 23 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I think they should put the 2 player group back into the "solo" que. I notice when dropping with just 1 other of my unit that we mostly feel like a 5th wheel when paired up with larger groups, and being out of the loop of their voice communications, and since they are mostly on VOIP there is almost no text chat as in the PUG games.

As a 2 man you have little hope of swaying the battle and I don't see how 2 man groups would be unfair to solo players. Even when dropping with 3 I notice a significant improvement of battle effectiveness over a 2 man drop.

Can't just put the 2-player groups into the solo queue, would impact the group queue significantly, however I'd like to see 1-3 player groups put into BOTH queues, with solo's having an option to opt out.

[Ghogiel]

Aym, on 24 September 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

Can't just put the 2-player groups into the solo queue, would impact the group queue significantly, however I'd like to see 1-3 player groups put into BOTH queues, with solo's having an option to opt out.

Adding more options to opt out of is what Russ is talking bout when he says hard stops. The oposite of options is going to happen to improve the MM.

[Ace Selin]

OP is either really, really bad and so are his friends or he's making this up, because I recently played many fun drops with friends and people I met online and win as many as I do in solo Q (which I play at least 90%). Same that happens in solo Q happens in group Q, you win some, lose some, some games are close and sometimes you get stomped.

Solo Q & group Q need to be left exactly as they are.

Edited by Ace Selin, 24 September 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[The Wakelord]

I'm not sure why there is so much hatred and angst being flung about for some people saying "hey, I want to have fun with my friends. We're not very good, so we don't like going up consistently against really skilled people. We like going up against people of our own skill level."

Generally speaking, I think when people talk about 12-mans what they really should be talking about is the "elite players." I think most people would agree from the wait times that the MM is desperate, so ignore the elo of players in preference of their group size.

One thing I think that'd solve this issue is if all games were not 12vs 12. The ability to have the occasional XxX game could spice things up for the oldhands, and perhaps allow the MM to rate elo more accurately.

[Valore]

The Wakelord, on 25 September 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

I'm not sure why there is so much hatred and angst being flung about for some people saying "hey, I want to have fun with my friends. We're not very good, so we don't like going up consistently against really skilled people. We like going up against people of our own skill level."

Because that highlighted part is patently not true and keeps being propagated by people trying to use it as evidence.

There aren't that many 10-12 man groups in the queues. To try and portray that is facetious and disingeneous.

Edited by Valore, 25 September 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[BattleBunny]

After reading most of the thread I am quite surprised by how some people seem to approach this game.

I am all about chatter inbetween games, having a beer and having fun. Wether this is dropping with my friends or with people on NGNG and the sort. Seriously, talk about your wife, kids, work, mech builds or whatever. get drunk while doing it if thats yr thing. Its all good.

But when the game starts, the game starts. This is why we are all here right. The fun part is to try and work together in killing the other 12 guys. Its the group queue after all! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, and its all good. But if it doesnt work because I am missing vital information that a scout relayed, because somebody was talking about how many ac2's they are gonna shove up their new ravens *** for their new build, that for me is not the way to play. You save that conversation for after the match, because in match we are trying to get some teamwork done. Which is the fun part, Especially if it works! Especially if it works with your friends!!

to each his own I guess.

If the above sounds good to you, feel free to drop with me in NGNG anytime.

What Sulla said is the way to go:

Quote

There is an easy fix for you. Get on the large free TS servers like NGNG. Most nights there are several random groups of 2-12 players. Get in these groups. A nice 5 or 6 man group works well. Doing this will let you meet a lot of new people. It will mix skill level of the group so you have more wins. And its just more fun.

Server: voip01.n1585.hypernia.net:9992
Password: mechwarrior

Edited by BattleBunny, 25 September 2014 - 03:02 AM.

[VixNix]

Valore, on 24 September 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

I've posted screenshots for games I've played on a regular basis. You can see for yourself, only one or two of them are against big groups.

So unless you want to claim the matchmaker is biased and is only bullying you and your friends, there's the proof.

Since you conveniently don't want to take up the challenge I posted, you're not in any position to pretend what you're saying is fact.

The solution I've put up is people who want to 'opt out' by for example saying they don't PREFER competitive play, get put at the back of the queue. People who select 'We will play anyone and anything' will get first choice.

It'll satisfy you, because if, as you claim, there are TONS of people who don't like playing against competitive players, you guys should not have long wait queues.

If it ends up that you were in fact wrong, then you'll be stuck in queue limbo, which is what you wanted for us anyway, so you shouldnt have any issues being on that end of the stick.

Posting your screen-shots is anecdotal evidence, it proves nothing other than your experience, which you say is different than other peoples, okay so what, different "ELO" numbers blah blah blah...

Get PGI to post numbers or allow something like world of logs, then you will have proof, and also go search the forums, there are as i said TONS of people posting the stomps.

This thread is about being able to drop with friends as a group and HAVE FUN that is totally subjective.

And you keep saying the same broken stuff...

IF THE GAME WAS MORE FUN FOR CASUAL PLAYERS THEY WOULD PLAY MORE OFTEN AND YOU WOULD HAVE LESS TIME IN QUEUE LIMBO.

[Magna Canus]

After a lot of complaints the solo Q finally has what it wants, no groups. ALL the solo guys are happy with that and Russ is as well. Why mess it up again by introducing small groups? Just so small casual groups can cause another $hitstorm on the forums again with the evil premade boogeyman? No thank you, and that from a group player.

Separating Q's into Comp and Casual will not work either. Sometime somewhere somebody is going to want the "easy mode" and go troll-stomping in the casual Q. Also not a good option.

Introducing "Hard ELO brackets" for groups may or may not work, but again people will want to try to play it by mixing in new accounts that have been "farmed bad" together with their buddies good accounts to lower the ELO average. Too much work for me, but somebody will want to put the effort in.

So what is left for the guys that want to muck about and win all the time? PvE with 20 different easy mode settings, that is what this game really needs. My friends/unit and I do well on some days, not so good on others, but that is part of the game. The MM does ok for all the limitations it has to accomodate, even better if the community is as small as people suspect.

So, if you want to introduce people to the game that have the same mindset as my 8yo nephew who wants to be awesome from the start and only loose occasionally to "make it feel realistic", then PvE needs to be introduced. Few people are awesome from the start, and I am definately not one of them. I got my face eaten off time after time in my first few hundred matches. As you can see I am still here and still playing.

[-Natural Selection-]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Get PGI to post numbers or allow something like world of logs, then you will have proof, and also go search the forums, there are as i said TONS of people posting the stomps.

And I also think that when people post on topic like this it should automatically post your W/L. Because there are many that seem to blow their misfortune way out of proportion.

[Hoax415]

XX Sulla XX, on 24 September 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

There is an easy fix for you. Get on the large free TS servers like NGNG. Most nights there are several random groups of 2-12 players. Get in these groups. A nice 5 or 6 man group works well. Doing this will let you meet a lot of new people. It will mix skill level of the group so you have more wins. And its just more fun.

Server: voip01.n1585.hypernia.net:9992
Password: mechwarrior

Its unreasonable to point out that these players could do something themselves differently. This is a problem with the game not catering to them. Fix the game so they can keep doing exactly what they are doing but with more wins. Don't you get it!? /s

The Wakelord, on 25 September 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

I'm not sure why there is so much hatred and angst being flung about for some people saying "hey, I want to have fun with my friends. We're not very good, so we don't like going up consistently against really skilled people. We like going up against people of our own skill level."

Generally speaking, I think when people talk about 12-mans what they really should be talking about is the "elite players." I think most people would agree from the wait times that the MM is desperate, so ignore the elo of players in preference of their group size.

The MM system by design shouldn't be putting them against really skilled people. By design you would assume it puts the lowest elo groups into games together most of the time.

If its not working like that consistently something seems messed up. I have posted up thread that we could be concerned that a low elo 2-4 man is being used to drop the TEAM elo average to make a match.

Only PGI can answer that however and nobody complaining loudly has suggested they have evidence or a feeling that that is happening.

Edited by Hoax415, 25 September 2014 - 04:20 AM.

[Haipyng]

This is a circular argument. One group wants this, another group wants something different, and we have a limited pool of players. The game is forcing us to clump together in a way that some of us are not interested in doing.

I don't want to go hang out in a teamspeak channel to put together a 12 man PUG that may or may not be any better than the MM made PUG. I don't want a 12 year old hollering at me because I didn't make "practice" or a match. I work for a living. I have obligations. My game time is limited and often random.

Fun is the key argument that is being made here. If you come up against a stacked premade with coordinated ranged and brawlers, ECM and AMS cover, taggers and narcs, dropped against many small groups it becomes a near instant stomp. They are not in the same class at all. You can have a sky high ELO in singles and there is little you can do as a independent multiple 2-4 man against that. That is not challenging. That is not fun. It is demoralizing, and it just makes this group of players want to find something else to do.

ELO is all well and good, but group size has a lot to do with this. Let players opt into an unrestricted MM for faster drops or opt into a balanced MM that takes group size as well as ELO into account when building teams. There is no reason why both groups can't get what they want.

Edited by Haipyng, 25 September 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[Valore]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Posting your screen-shots is anecdotal evidence, it proves nothing other than your experience, which you say is different than other peoples, okay so what, different "ELO" numbers blah blah blah...

LMAO. So a few pages ago you post this:

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

I didn't put up any random screen shots...
you want them all you have to do is look at the threads with the content, have fun it will take you a while to gather them all up.

Referring to some random screen shots you wanted to use as evidence.

I post actuall collected screenshots, a lot more and a lot more conclusive that whatever you were referring to, and suddenly, screenshots are 'anecdotal'.

Whatever man.

And last but not least, this gem from you:

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

IF THE GAME WAS MORE FUN FOR CASUAL PLAYERS THEY WOULD PLAY MORE OFTEN AND YOU WOULD HAVE LESS TIME IN QUEUE LIMBO.

So that translates as 'We casuals don't want to play with you, but hopefully there will magically be other casual people who you can play with'?

You're hilarious.

Haipyng, on 25 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

Let players opt into an unrestricted MM for faster drops or opt into a balanced MM that takes group size as well as ELO into account when building teams. There is no reason why both groups can't get what they want.

This is what I've suggested to your clan mate VixNix, but he apparently isn't willing to listen to any reason or logic.

Valore, on 24 September 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

As I mentioned, let people opt into what they want to play. If you choose to cancel out options, you get put at the back of the queue, with people leaving all their options open always at the front.

PS, your statement here:

Haipyng, on 25 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't want to go hang out in a teamspeak channel to put together a 12 man PUG that may or may not be any better than the MM made PUG. I don't want a 12 year old hollering at me because I didn't make "practice" or a match. I work for a living. I have obligations. My game time is limited and often random.

Is both demeaning and insulting, especially to people like the NGNG guys, who are both often welcoming and polite to all comers. It shows you obviously have a lack of experience in trying this, and are just relying on stereotypes to build your opinion.

Edited by Valore, 25 September 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Hoax415, on 25 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

The MM system by design shouldn't be putting them against really skilled people. By design you would assume it puts the lowest elo groups into games together most of the time.

So what if by chance it ISNT matching them against "really skilled" people?

What if these are comparatively skilled players just working together in a more effective manner?

MOTD; This isnt 2v12, this is 12v12. Learn to play as a team, or get rekt as an individual.

[UnsafePilot]

Most of the sentiments here are agreeable enough but the way they're being expressed are one of the larger problems with trying to get new people to play.

[Valore]

He has a point though. Your statement here:

Haipyng, on 25 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't want to go hang out in a teamspeak channel to put together a 12 man PUG that may or may not be any better than the MM made PUG. I don't want a 12 year old hollering at me because I didn't make "practice" or a match. I work for a living. I have obligations. My game time is limited and often random.

is really rude and condescending, especially considering how welcoming some of the public groups are, and how they make an effort to be open and include people. For you to make sweeping generalisations like that cheapens your entire argument.

Edited by Valore, 25 September 2014 - 05:05 AM.

[totgeboren]

Well, this is the first game I have played where I often kinda hope my friends list will show all offline when I log on.
That way I don't have to make the choice of enjoying the company of friends while getting stomped or have fun games on my own.

I mean, even if me and whoever I play with are fairly good, 2-mans just don't fit in in the group queue.
I only play with one other friend, we got a third to start playing (big MW fan) but you can't bring a newb along in the group queue, he didn't enjoy it at all because he didn't stand a chance, and quit playing fairly quickly since he prefers social games rather than single-player ones.

The current set-up really is a problem since it drives people away. Just allowing at least 2-mech teams in the PUG queue shouldn't upset balance too much, or would it?

[Haipyng]

Valore, on 25 September 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

LMAO. So a few pages ago you post this:



Referring to some random screen shots you wanted to use as evidence.

I post actuall collected screenshots, a lot more and a lot more conclusive that whatever you were referring to, and suddenly, screenshots are 'anecdotal'.

Whatever man.

And last but not least, this gem from you:



So that translates as 'We casuals don't want to play with you, but hopefully there will magically be other casual people who you can play with'?

You're hilarious.



This is what I've suggested to your clan mate VixNix, but he apparently isn't willing to listen to any reason or logic.



PS, your statement here:




Is both demeaning and insulting, especially to people like the NGNG guys, who are both often welcoming and polite to all comers. It shows you obviously have a lack of experience in trying this, and are just relying on stereotypes to build your opinion.

It was not meant to be demeaning and insulting and I did a poor job of breaking that teams or clans from from TS chat. I am sorry it came out that way to you. I was speaking of elite teams or clans from other games. I've been in plenty of them that require set times for skrims and matches and they do demand you be there.

No disrespect to NGNG, but I've never heard of them. I am sure they are a great group of people.

Vix is actually a very passionate guy. Differences of opinion and forums and writing make it easy for everyone to miss someone's point. Everyone that is taking the time to post on this has this in common: We are all passionate about MechWarrior.

[Triordinant]

totgeboren, on 25 September 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

The current set-up really is a problem since it drives people away. Just allowing at least 2-mech teams in the PUG queue shouldn't upset balance too much, or would it?

Apparently it does, based on Russ Bullock's post.

[Kjudoon]

VixNix, on 24 September 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Really?

I don't want to stick you anywhere, I just want to have fun.

But when I want to play with my friends "YOU" apparently want us to play against you, what to boost your ego?

What's your suggestion to fix this?

He's not seeing the writing on the wall... those casual players are already lost to him. They either will go to a new queue where they enjoy the gameplay in smaller groups, or quit. And that's precisely what is happening. Casual players quit, join the solo queue for a while THEN burn out because they do not get the gameplay experience they want.

There is no other result because nobody is obligated to play a game they don't enjoy and will be better served by leaving if the gameplay experience does not make them want to continue play.

Its like Aesop's fable. The monkey's only way to get his hand out of the vase is to let go of the grape, and learn to pour them out, otherwise he loses everything.