231 replies to this topic

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

Ghogiel, on 24 September 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

******* hell man.... yesterday in a SHD 2 AC5 ppc and pinging with the AC5 had nearly a 100% reg... pop the PPC on something and nothing but particle exploding on the mech but no reg.

It seems to me that it either explodes on them and nothing happens or it goes through them and explodes behind them.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Just had 3 games where hit reg completely failed! None of my weapons did any damage. This is just not good enough. We need this looked into and fixed asap!

[Valore]

No idea why PPCs are like that but other projectile weapons aren't. Its bizzare.

[Kitane]

The state of lasers makes me so frustrated. I'd like to use some of my laserboat builds more often, but there is always something fishy going with hit reg on between laser beams on my client and the resulting damage on the target.

It definitely feels like SRMs of old. It often makes me feel totally incompetent, especially when I lose in a 1vs1 against something that should be several times dead on my client.

When it works, great. When it doesn't, it's like 50-70% of the damage just doesn't happen. The red hit confirmation blinks, but the damage caused is much lower than it should be.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Funniest moments, having a cicada circling around you, with your crosshair dead on with medlas or LL and nothing registers.

Same scenario, but with Gauss or a couple AC-5, and he starts exploding.

Why can't lasers be hitting with just as much reliability as Ballistics?

[Andi Nagasia]

had a game yesterday,

score was 10-11, last enemy was a Jenner-SRM,
i was Running a Nova-s Prime arms 5ER-ML each,
ally was a Dire with 8ER-LL/LRM(?), i was 50-60m away,

Jenner appeared we blasted him, in the end we both died,
he only had yellow LT/RT Armor, and red CT Armor,

im really thinking this is becoming a major problem,
why run H/A mechs if Lights can easily toast you?

[Bryan Bekker]

I have noticed since yesterday's patch that it has become considerably worse.

Edited by Bryan Bekker, 24 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Russ Bullock]

Hi everyone,

Very concerning post for sure.

I was personally very surprised to see this as we did a complete audit on Hit Detection back when we fixed the SRM's. After we fixed SRM's we ended up making a fix to both MG's and Lasers. Since that point in time our telemetry shows us almost exactly the same performance now across all weapon types.

But players are feeling as though this isn't the case with lasers, so we need to figure out why this is. Is it something about the presentation to the player that is misleading or is there some true missing damage and therefore a problem that is fooling the telemetry calculation as well.

I guess I would ask if you the players might be able to provide some example video footage. Back in the SRM days we got some very good footage of situations that helped us. It would help in our investigation if you could provide the same while using lasers.

[Dawnstealer]

It could have something to do with the increased beam time. I haven't noticed much of a change, but I do have to hold the beam on target a lot longer, which makes sense, considering. Then again, I'm relatively low-ping.

[mack sabbath]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Hi everyone,

Very concerning post for sure.

I was personally very surprised to see this as we did a complete audit on Hit Detection back when we fixed the SRM's. After we fixed SRM's we ended up making a fix to both MG's and Lasers. Since that point in time our telemetry shows us almost exactly the same performance now across all weapon types.

But players are feeling as though this isn't the case with lasers, so we need to figure out why this is. Is it something about the presentation to the player that is misleading or is there some true missing damage and therefore a problem that is fooling the telemetry calculation as well.

I guess I would ask if you the players might be able to provide some example video footage. Back in the SRM days we got some very good footage of situations that helped us. It would help in our investigation if you could provide the same while using lasers.

Ummm, maybe watch Jager stream with a Jenner sometime on NGNG and see it first hand over and over forever and a day now?

[STEF_]

This happens with ppc to me.
In Tourmaline in g6 mountaing I had happy time sniping with ppc and had at least 25 hits (reticule became red).
I had an heart attack when in final screen appeared "126 dmg"!!!

[Bront]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Hi everyone,

Very concerning post for sure.

I was personally very surprised to see this as we did a complete audit on Hit Detection back when we fixed the SRM's. After we fixed SRM's we ended up making a fix to both MG's and Lasers. Since that point in time our telemetry shows us almost exactly the same performance now across all weapon types.

But players are feeling as though this isn't the case with lasers, so we need to figure out why this is. Is it something about the presentation to the player that is misleading or is there some true missing damage and therefore a problem that is fooling the telemetry calculation as well.

I guess I would ask if you the players might be able to provide some example video footage. Back in the SRM days we got some very good footage of situations that helped us. It would help in our investigation if you could provide the same while using lasers.

Russ, I think it's a perception and range issue more than anything else. That said, yes, sometimes it feels like you can hold your laser lock on a mech part, and other times it feels like it's not effective.

But I have had some 150 and 450 damage games with a Hunchback P where the only difference was the damage, but I felt I hit about as often in both games.

Edited by Bront, 24 September 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Thank you for that Russ, its great to see you taking an active stance and interest on these core issues.

Trying to do any kind of meaningful testing in pubs is near impossible though because of the chaos.

If we could do private matches and have an organized test, it would be whole lot easier to get the viable proof.

Or some internal testing sessions that you at PGI could setup.

Most importantly it needs to be with the same parameters that any pub game would have, varying pings ect.
A lan environment isn't going to be a simulation of everyday gaming in MWO.

Setup some laser boats, nova/Hunchback/direwolf anything that can carry many energy weapons, and just do strafing tests for starters.

Have lights/mediums make running passes while being shot at.

Tally up damage, where damage is registering all within appropriate ranges, and see whats really going on.

The most obvious problems is hitbox synchronization on fast targets, but it is still present for every weight tier, but speed and motion direction are the key factors.

Hitreg is quite honestly a Black/White issue when it comes to HRS vs Hitscan weapons.

Edited by Mister D, 24 September 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Russ Bullock]

One idea we are discussing is some new debug window output of each weapon you fire and displaying if it hit and how much damage it applied for duration based weapons.

This would be present on something like Public test.

Many players could come and match up and play as usual with this window outputting the data. Players then could be recording footage. This would then tell us very clearly if there was video evidence of laying a beam on the CT for the entire duration in max damage range but the damage output window displaying less than full damage.

Or on the other hand it might show the player that they were outside of max damage range and therefore were only supposed to do be doing 70% damage. I assume many of those moments while playing in real time are not registered by the players. But having video footage that directly corresponds with a damage output window would provide a way to go back and review for any discrepancies.

[Metus regem]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

One idea we are discussing is some new debug window output of each weapon you fire and displaying if it hit and how much damage it applied for duration based weapons.

This would be present on something like Public test.

Many players could come and match up and play as usual with this window outputting the data. Players then could be recording footage. This would then tell us very clearly if there was video evidence of laying a beam on the CT for the entire duration in max damage range but the damage output window displaying less than full damage.

Or on the other hand it might show the player that they were outside of max damage range and therefore were only supposed to do be doing 70% damage. I assume many of those moments while playing in real time are not registered by the players. But having video footage that directly corresponds with a damage output window would provide a way to go back and review for any discrepancies.

Perhaps looking at a cross-hair colour change for the active group, normal colour for when locked inside of the optimum range, and perhaps another colour that is between the default cross-hair colour and optimum range colour, for when between non effective and optimum range?

That might be the simplest solution to the problem, now I know the programming of something like that wouldn't be insignificant, nor the cost to implement, but I do think it could be a viable option.

[Russ Bullock]

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Perhaps looking at a cross-hair colour change for the active group, normal colour for when locked inside of the optimum range, and perhaps another colour that is between the default cross-hair colour and optimum range colour, for when between non effective and optimum range?

That might be the simplest solution to the problem, now I know the programming of something like that wouldn't be insignificant, nor the cost to implement, but I do think it could be a viable option.

I think that is a great idea that will at least remove some false impressions from players. If the Damage indicator from for instance your lasers was the current red when giving full damage and some sort of yellow when applying reduced damage because you are beyond full damage range.

[Bront]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think that is a great idea that will at least remove some false impressions from players. If the Damage indicator from for instance your lasers was the current red when giving full damage and some sort of yellow when applying reduced damage because you are beyond full damage range.

You already do that with the weapon groups, it's hard to do with the cross hairs though when they mix weapons. (Sure my SLs are out of range, but the ERLL is still fine).

[Nothing Whatsoever]

And what about incorporating HTAL?

Something like this:

9erRed, on 29 July 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Greetings all,

Reference the 'Internals'

It can be inserted in the middle of the black out area as a single solid white line that also goes through this 'blackout' process.
- So once the armour is mid destroyed, you see the "Internal' line appear, indicating that there could now be a chance of 'critical' damage and component destruction. Internals exposed at this point.
(probably about the 5th image or 'orange' indication.)

Example only:




9erRed

Edit: Made a mistake with the link

Edited by Praetor Knight, 25 September 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Russ, it is very encouraging to see the steps you guys are working on for us and the desire to make this a better game.

I think for some of us experiencing this problem might potentially be influenced because our computers are not top end and this causes the action on the screen to not actually reflect what's going on in game. For instance, I have extremely good ping (20-50 on average with almost no fluctuation to it. But my computer is barely able to run the game adequately, so I suffer very low FPS. When in matches I have had players in my TS tell me that when I am tracking targets right on the money (like when a spider has me in a death swirl) my cursor is constantly a half cm to 2 behind the target that they're seeing rendered on the screen.

This relates to other issues I've seen of enemy mechs flat out not rendering in my screen for some reason even though it's open with no cover, I turn away and then look back and tada! there they were shooting me. This might be one area that you guys could check to see if it is influencing this experience if you have an older computer that you test on at minimum settings just to see if it has this kind of effect on HSR, hit scan or other stuff.

Thanks!

[Metus regem]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think that is a great idea that will at least remove some false impressions from players. If the Damage indicator from for instance your lasers was the current red when giving full damage and some sort of yellow when applying reduced damage because you are beyond full damage range.

Thank you for the complement Russ, I appreciate it. For mixed weapon groupings with different ranges it perhaps find an over-lap point and apply the over-range colour?